2021 Olympic qualifying tournament

[reamily]

Sinu lang ba paggamitan ng application ng indonesia its only brandon.. as for us a hundred..

[Labradoodle]

slaugther's application set a high standard.

both pringle and stanley has less than 5 years of residence and participation in domestic leagues when they applied for exception (i will assume) in 2018.

and when fiba looked into new applications, they can certainly consider previous cases of approved and disapproved cases even if decisions are on a case to case basis.

jawato? first and only application yan e (at least as far as we know).

Jawato's exemption is quite extraordinary given that he is a naturalized Indonesian citizen, and only became a citizen for the reason of getting him in Timnas together with Prosper. Jawato was technically a foreigner until his naturalization and his basketball heritage is American. Slaughter, on the other hand, played collegiate ball in the Visayas and Ateneo. Greg's basketball heritage is closer to Kouame or Dwight Ramos than to Jawato. Jawato went to Indonesia as a pro. Ramos, Kouame, and Slaughter came over as college ballers.

I don't think Indonesia can't pull anything like this again. Especially not after the WC. Their only way to do it a la Qatar.

[allmight]

So the senegalese players recruitment is just a gamble?

[Labradoodle]

Sinu lang ba paggamitan ng application ng indonesia its only brandon.. as for us a hundred..

Indonesia can actually tap on some Americans and Dutch people of Indonesian descent should they want it. The problem is, their laws don't allow dual citizenship like hours so they have to naturalize a lot of people who have Indonesian heritage.

[Labradoodle]

So the senegalese players recruitment is just a gamble?

The success of their national team will depend on how the Senegalese will be trained. Just because they got several young Africans does not mean, they will improve by a large margin. It will boil down to the training program and if PERBASI will retain Toroman for a decade or so

[neo]

Jawato's exemption is quite extraordinary given that he is a naturalized Indonesian citizen, and only became a citizen for the reason of getting him in Timnas together with Prosper. Jawato was technically a foreigner until his naturalization and his basketball heritage is American. Slaughter, on the other hand, played collegiate ball in the Visayas and Ateneo. Greg's basketball heritage is closer to Kouame or Dwight Ramos than to Jawato. Jawato went to Indonesia as a pro. Ramos, Kouame, and Slaughter came over as college ballers.

I don't think Indonesia can't pull anything like this again. Especially not after the WC. Their only way to do it a la Qatar.

which is good for d case of kouame.

jawato, while naturalized, has other claims of connection though (e.g. father). kouame has one, studying here since high school.

[Labradoodle]

^Again, if Jawato's ancestry is what really got him approved, then shouldn't that be the case of Pringle and CStand? And unlike Jawato, Pringle and CStand aren't naturalized citizens. They were born with PH citizenship, thanks to our dual citizenship laws.

Jawato's exemption is more extraordinary than Kouame or even Greg Slaughter. Kouame learned "proper balling" in the Philippines,.while.Greg Slaughter played college ball. Pringle and CStand were born citizens. Jawato? Non-citizen who came to Indonesia as a pro, and learned to ball in the US.

That's what makes his case more extraordinary than Slaughter's case. The technicality of Pringle and CStand is the passport age. Jawato,meanwhile, is LITERALLY a naturalized citizen.

That's how extraordinary his exemption is.

[lurklurk]

which is good for d case of kouame.

jawato, while naturalized, has other claims of connection though (e.g. father). kouame has one, studying here since high school.

This is what people have been saying. Jawato’s case helped kouame’s.

[neo]

^Again, if Jawato's ancestry is what really got him approved, then shouldn't that be the case of Pringle and CStand? And unlike Jawato, Pringle and CStand aren't naturalized citizens. They were born with PH citizenship, thanks to our dual citizenship laws.

Jawato's exemption is more extraordinary than Kouame or even Greg Slaughter. Kouame learned "proper balling" in the Philippines,.while.Greg Slaughter played college ball. Pringle and CStand were born citizens. Jawato? Non-citizen who came to Indonesia as a pro, and learned to ball in the US.

That's what makes his case more extraordinary than Slaughter's case. The technicality of Pringle and CStand is the passport age. Jawato,meanwhile, is LITERALLY a naturalized citizen.

That's how extraordinary his exemption is.

there were reasons cited for d exception. one concerned his father. so while he is a naturalized player, d heritage connection is there. and i still think this is some kind of concessions for indonesia to help them sustain their right to host d wc in 2023.

and fiba is clear that none of d exceptions they make can serve as precedent for future cases.

[Labradoodle]

This is what people have been saying. Jawato’s case helped kouame’s.

I think Kouame's situation is closer to the Qatari naturalized players minus the in passport age. Kouame's basketball heritage is Filipino, like the Bosnians' basketball heritage is "Qatari". Jawato is straight out a naturalized citizen and his basketball heritage is not Indonesian, but American.

Jawato's exemption will probably be like asking Justin Brownlee to be exempted had SBP pushed for his naturalization.

[neo]

I think Kouame's situation is closer to the Qatari naturalized players minus the in passport age. Kouame's basketball heritage is Filipino, like the Bosnians' basketball heritage is "Qatari". Jawato is straight out a naturalized citizen and his basketball heritage is not Indonesian, but American.

Jawato's exemption will probably be like asking Justin Brownlee to be exempted had SBP pushed for his naturalization.

what matters is residency and experience in playing locally. fiba will not care where you learned how to play basketball per se.

then actual heritage and other evidences of connection/link would be d 3rd factor, which was d case of jawato when fiba cited his father's status.

[Labradoodle]

what matters is residency and experience in playing locally. fiba will not care where you learned how to play basketball per se.

then actual heritage and other evidences of connection/link would be d 3rd factor, which was d case of jawato when fiba cited his father's status.

Per Tab Baldwin's 2nd interview in Coaches Unfiltered, he actually mentioned that FIBA puts weight to basketball heritage.

This actually make sense especially if you think that FIBA has long allowed Qatar to exploit a loophole in the "Hagop rule" - naturalize foreigners and hand them passports before 16. As a consequence, that meant young foreigners will have to train "under Qatar" (does not have to be "in" Qatar). And Indonesia seems to be going that route. Qatar is "importing" Bosnians and Indonesia plans to "import" Senegalese.

If ancestral heritage mattered more than where they learned basketball, then we should have seen FIBA addressing the Hagop loophole. But they aren't.

And the Jawato case is very likely a rare exemption, and was more due to Indonesia being a co-host in the WC and the host of the Asia Cup. It won't look good on FIBA if they allow a country that does not have a strong team to host major FIBA events,.much so the World Cup. Didn't the Serbians criticize FIBA when they've beaten Gilas badly a few years back?.

Think of it if Sri Lanka put a bid to host FIBA Asia 2025 and FIBA pick them, and then the world saw how the Sri Lankan performed very poorly even by regional standards

[neo]

Per Tab Baldwin's 2nd interview in Coaches Unfiltered, he actually mentioned that FIBA puts weight to basketball heritage.

This actually make sense especially if you think that FIBA has long allowed Qatar to exploit a loophole in the "Hagop rule" - naturalize foreigners and hand them passports before 16. As a consequence, that meant young foreigners will have to train "under Qatar" (does not have to be "in" Qatar). And Indonesia seems to be going that route. Qatar is "importing" Bosnians and Indonesia plans to "import" Senegalese.

If ancestral heritage mattered more than where they learned basketball, then we should have seen FIBA addressing the Hagop loophole. But they aren't.

And the Jawato case is very likely a rare exemption, and was more due to Indonesia being a co-host in the WC and the host of the Asia Cup. It won't look good on FIBA if they allow a country that does not have a strong team to host major FIBA events. Didn't the Serbians criticize FIBA when they've beaten Gilas badly a few years back?

d "basketball heritage" would just be one of d "other criteria"...and as mentioned in jawato's case, his father being born in indonesia was part of the reasons for d exception, it did not matter if he learned to play ball in d usa.

indeed, i believe jawato's case was more like a concession. and that is why i believe we can make a case for clarkson for that extra-ordinary exception, but d jawato's case opened d possibility for kouame.

what matters is for clarkson to play for us without us losing d chance to play another reinforcement. so having kouame be eligible as a local would just be fine cos it woud mean we would be able to afford playing clarkson as our naturalized player, something that even yeng does not want becos he also feels the need for a center or pf to serve that part.

[Labradoodle]

d "basketball heritage" would just be one of d "other criteria"...and as mentioned in jawato's case, his father being born in indonesia was part of the reasons

If this is a major consideration, it's not reallya consistent reason. Many Bosnians in the Qatari team do not have any connection to Qatar at all, yet FIBA allows the passport age loophole be exploited and Indonesia plans to follow that footstep as regards to the Senegalese who have zero Indonesian neritage.

Sorry, but I am not convinced that Jawato's ancestry played a huge part here. If FIBA truly put emphasis on ancestral heritage, then they would have approved Pringle and CStand despite the shorter years in playing ball in the PBA. I believe the major reason is for Indonesia to be competitive, hence, they allowed two over-16 naturalized citizens to play at the same time.

[neo]

If this is a major consideration, it's not reallya consistent reason. Many Bosnians in the Qatari team do not have any connection to Qatar at all, yet FIBA allows the passport age loophole be exploited and Indonesia plans to follow that footstep as regards to the Senegalese who have zero Indonesian neritage.

Sorry, but I am not convinced that Jawato's ancestry played a huge part here. If FIBA truly put emphasis on ancestral heritage, then they would have approved Pringle and CStand despite the shorter years in playing ball in the PBA. I believe the major reason is for Indonesia to be competitive, hence, they allowed two over-16 naturalized citizens to play at the same time.

this is a different matter with d criteria for exception.

i also think that jawato's case is a form of concession. but this is basically an assumption or opinion.

what is factual (and official) is that fiba cited his father's ancestry as one of d reasons for his exception.