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Thread: 2021 Olympic qualifying tournament

  1. #1081
    Senior Member sroth3839's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    Serbia beat Mexico bigtime in the Acropolis Cup the other night.

    Mexico's Starting 5:

    G Stoll 5'11
    G Mendez 6'1
    F Giron 6'3
    F Camacho 6'7
    C Amigo 6'10

    Serbia's Starters:

    G Jovic 6'5
    G Dobric 6'7
    F Andjusic 6'5
    F Bjelica 6'10
    C Marjanovic 7'3

    Looks like Gilas-Indonesia lang.
    Did Ayon retire?

  2. #1082
    Senior Member PaulLee3's Avatar
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    Will Ben Simmons play for Australia?? The guy sucks in the playoffs.

  3. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    If that is true, then why did our 2014 WC squad with 3 sub 6Ft players didn't get crushed.
    That was good team. Blatche was the primary reason that team was competitive. He was and still is the only point center I've seen play at that stage. Too fast and skilled for big centers and too big for the smaller ones.

    The second was the bara bara ball was hard to adjust to for the systematic teams of that stage.

    But we didnt win any of those games. Kapos parati tayo. In the slow pace of the last minutes of the 4th our midget guards became ineffective. Who was effective? The big man we didnt use much but was effective in thr minutes he played. June Mar was the reason we won a game, not the midget guards.

    Which brings me to what I didnt like about Chot. He didnt adjust quick enough to use June Mar because it countered the narrative that bara bara ball was the only way we can be competitive. At times he is a marketing person more than a coach. He prioritized marketing the DDO over winning games.

    Guess which player he missed out on aside from June Mar? Justine Baltazar. Tab moved heaven and earth so he could get Pineda's nod. Chot didn't include Balti in the 23 for 2023 even if he was the most dominant HS player for his time. Carl got the accolades. He was good. But why skip on Baltazar? In fairness everyone else did. But guess who did not? I guess that is why Tab is Tab. I don't think any of the local coaches or SBP had the foresight to see the potential of the guy.

  4. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by IshmaelM View Post
    That was good team. Blatche was the primary reason that team was competitive. He was and still is the only point center I've seen play at that stage. Too fast and skilled for big centers and too big for the smaller ones.

    The second was the bara bara ball was hard to adjust to for the systematic teams of that stage.

    But we didnt win any of those games. Kapos parati tayo. In the slow pace of the last minutes of the 4th our midget guards became ineffective. Who was effective? The big man we didnt use much but was effective in thr minutes he played. June Mar was the reason we won a game, not the midget guards.

    Which brings me to what I didnt like about Chot. He didnt adjust quick enough to use June Mar because it countered the narrative that bara bara ball was the only way we can be competitive. At times he is a marketing person more than a coach. He prioritized marketing the DDO over winning games.

    Guess which player he missed out on aside from June Mar? Justine Baltazar. Tab moved heaven and earth so he could get Pineda's nod. Chot didn't include Balti in the 23 for 2023 even if he was the most dominant HS player for his time. Carl got the accolades. He was good. But why skip on Baltazar? In fairness everyone else did. But guess who did not? I guess that is why Tab is Tab. I don't think any of the local coaches or SBP had the foresight to see the potential of the guy.
    It's just shows that coach TB is very much serious on getting Balti for this journey moving forward, we seldom seen him approach any handlers nor person if he is not that interested, the mere fact that he really had a private conversation with the Pineda's during those time are indication that coach Tab is dead serious on the kid.

  5. #1085
    Senior Member ja.he's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sroth3839 View Post
    Did Ayon retire?
    No idea brod. But I think they need fresh legs as half of their current pool now are already in their 30's.

  6. #1086
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    If that is true, then why did our 2014 WC squad with 3 sub 6Ft players didn't get crushed.
    And that is the problem, if we can continue to use the 2014 experience as the basis for everything, like dribble drive is always best or 6'4 PF can work or 5'8 guards will work. Or see we can come close to making 2nd round. We will fail to evolve and expand our development and get better.
    What worked before does not necessarily mean it is the best approach or work again repeatedly.
    And besides it's not that they were small that it worked, but that they were good. (Shooting etc), but if you had the option to still have the skill (Shooting) with taller players . Then why wouldn't you invest in that..
    We're living in the past if we're still basing things on something that happened 7 years ago! Wala na yan it's irrelevant

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    And that is the problem, if we can continue to use the 2014 experience as the basis for everything, like dribble drive is always best or 6'4 PF can work or 5'8 guards will work. Or see we can come close to making 2nd round. We will fail to evolve and expand our development and get better.
    What worked before does not necessarily mean it is the best approach or work again repeatedly.
    And besides it's not that they were small that it worked, but that they were good. (Shooting etc), but if you had the option to still have the skill (Shooting) with taller players . Then why wouldn't you invest in that..
    We're living in the past if we're still basing things on something that happened 7 years ago! Wala na yan it's irrelevant
    The answer is preparation. Thats their similarity, they beat Korea because of their preparation. Competitive because of preparation.

    You always emphasis NZ 4th place finished. So who is living int the past. nZ has been declining eversince. Last WC, NZ lasted only the first round.

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    To IshmaelM

    1. Chot added Amohot to his wings and had several players 6'5" to his wing. Look at this link https://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/01/0...fiba-world-cup

    2. Blatche really help us but without all of our local contribution it will be easy just to double team Blatche. Remember, we got the lead in Argentina without Blatche. Catch up with Jimmy and RDO shooting. LA sgoot8ng 19 pts in Puerto rico, Chan shooting and offensive rebounding of Pingris in Croatia. So to tell me its only Blatch was the reason.

    3. Yes we didn't win but we are competitive rather than being blown out. Like Gilas cadets did with Korea, did anyone expect it to win two games,No. Just like Serbia in OQT, do you expect Gilas cadet to win.

    4. Remember Jimmy highest scorer in 4 qrt in Argentina. Chan scored crucial points in Croatia game and JC scored to tie in regulations. So no even in half court game we can score.

  9. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    And that is the problem, if we can continue to use the 2014 experience as the basis for everything, like dribble drive is always best or 6'4 PF can work or 5'8 guards will work. Or see we can come close to making 2nd round. We will fail to evolve and expand our development and get better.
    What worked before does not necessarily mean it is the best approach or work again repeatedly.
    And besides it's not that they were small that it worked, but that they were good. (Shooting etc), but if you had the option to still have the skill (Shooting) with taller players . Then why wouldn't you invest in that..
    We're living in the past if we're still basing things on something that happened 7 years ago! Wala na yan it's irrelevant
    I hate that 2014-15 period was overhyped while the cycle of mediocrity that followed was pretty much forgotten, the 2017 32 point beatdown from Korea, our senior team losing against a developmental Iranian team that Japan beat, the 2019 loss to Kazakhstan where we relied on a miracle to enter the world cup despite Gilas being grouped with opponents which they have consistently beaten historically were far more fresh on my mind than the "almost won" scenarios 6 years ago that pinoys like to mentally masturbate over. For 6 years the only teams we were impressing was Chinese Taipei and our opponents at seaba

  10. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    The answer is preparation. Thats their similarity, they beat Korea because of their preparation. Competitive because of preparation.

    You always emphasis NZ 4th place finished. So who is living int the past. nZ has been declining eversince. Last WC, NZ lasted only the first round.
    I agree 100% on preparation is the key...and that is why I am not that sold of getting players who are bound to their motherclubs....the only exception will be Kai, Clarkson and Maybe 1 more big (Edu or Fajardo or Japeth) (maybe Caelum Harris depending on how he turns out i.e. continued to be ranked in the top 20 draft). We should be getting 25 guys who can commit to stay and train with Gilas until 2023.

  11. #1091
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    The answer is preparation. Thats their similarity, they beat Korea because of their preparation. Competitive because of preparation.

    You always emphasis NZ 4th place finished. So who is living int the past. nZ has been declining eversince. Last WC, NZ lasted only the first round.
    Yes NZ has not performed as well as 2002 again.

    In 2014 it placed higher than Australia

    In 2019 with an expanded field and format , NZ was in a higher classification group round , all Asain teams were at the bottom classification. It beat Tuekey and Montenegro


    Fact for the last 2 major competition (WC and WC Asia qualifiers) NZ has the 2nd best record and result next to Australia

    It beat Australia last year , Australia last legit team.with.NBL players.

    Just being accurate here .

    But anyway your totally missing the.point , it isnt the fact that it's past that makes it wrong to use as a basis .
    But using as basis what worked.previously as will work again . I do not say see undersize Pero Cameron made the mytical team in 2002 , so we can use an undersize.PF again.. that's foolish.. I hope u understand ..

    Yes you're right there are things like preperation, good shooting that we can always look back and try to emulate again , those are what made it work. Not the being small. or dribble dribble iso
    Always evolve get better in those weaknesses, size being one . Don't live in the past specifically with what we got by with
    Last edited by DAdmiral; 06-21-2021 at 10:47 AM.

  12. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    Yes NZ has not performed as well as 2002 again.

    In 2014 it placed higher than Australia

    In 2019 with an expanded field and format , NZ was in a higher classification group round , all Asain teams were at the bottom classification. It beat Tuekey and Montenegro


    Fact for the last 2 major competition (WC and WC Asia qualifiers) NZ has the 2nd best record and result next to Australia

    It beat Australia last year , Australia last legit team.with.NBL players.

    Just being accurate here .

    But anyway your totally missing the.point , it isnt the fact that it's past that makes it wrong to use as a basis .
    But using as basis what worked.previously as will work again . I do not say see undersize Pero Cameron made the mytical team in 2002 , so we can use an undersize.PF again.. that's foolish.. I hope u understand ..

    Yes you're right there are things like preperation, good shooting that we can always look back and try to emulate again , those are what made it work. Not the being small. or dribble dribble iso
    Always evolve get better in those weaknesses, size being one . Don't live in the past specifically with what we got by with
    Why is NZ declining. Don't compare it to other Asian nation as they are Europeans descents, compare it to other NZ NTs. Why is 2002 was the last time they enter quarter finals.

  13. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    To IshmaelM

    1. Chot added Amohot to his wings and had several players 6'5" to his wing. Look at this link https://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/01/0...fiba-world-cup

    2. Blatche really help us but without all of our local contribution it will be easy just to double team Blatche. Remember, we got the lead in Argentina without Blatche. Catch up with Jimmy and RDO shooting. LA sgoot8ng 19 pts in Puerto rico, Chan shooting and offensive rebounding of Pingris in Croatia. So to tell me its only Blatch was the reason.

    3. Yes we didn't win but we are competitive rather than being blown out. Like Gilas cadets did with Korea, did anyone expect it to win two games,No. Just like Serbia in OQT, do you expect Gilas cadet to win.

    4. Remember Jimmy highest scorer in 4 qrt in Argentina. Chan scored crucial points in Croatia game and JC scored to tie in regulations. So no even in half court game we can score.
    I am not saying they were not good. But they were not good enough at that level. The small guards could not lead us to a win because pace slows down in the end game. It is harder for them to score and we cant stop them. How many points did our small guards score in the last 2 minutes? What was our plus minus with the small guard lineup vs the one with June Mar?

    SMC didnt do us any favors by bloating up June Mar. But Chot didnt know how to use him when he had him. Tab knew how June Mar could be effective and if JF maintained that OQT weight he could have been much a better defender and he probably wouldnt have been injured.

    So Chot had some success. But it was not sustainable.

    Yes he included some young potential wings. But again he missed out on Balti. Considering how important Balti was for our perimeter defense now, that was a big miss.

  14. #1094
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    Why is NZ declining. Don't compare it to other Asian nation as they are Europeans descents, compare it to other NZ NTs. Why is 2002 was the last time they enter quarter finals.
    Objectively if you based in the players being produced in Nz last decade they're actually better than the decade prior (2000 to 2009), proof.is in numbers of Div 1 and Euro.
    the national team objectively have beaten stronger teams.also. NZ beat Italy and Turkey last year and Russia a few years ago. Objectively those teams they beat are actually stronger than the teams.they beat in 2002 .
    What does this mean? World basketball has gotten better in the past decade , compared to 2000. , this is evident in the NBA. The last 3 MVPs are all European, the top 7 NBA rebounders are all European.
    So while NZ has gotten better , the rest of the world.has gotten better . Do note the 2019 WC was.expanded by 1/3. 24 teams to 32 teams. , so a mid level team that places 16 to 19 like Nz is actually equates to a 12 place in older versions

  15. #1095
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    The level of basketball in Australia and New Zealand has risen actually in the last 10 years

    I coach.in high school, and there is a significant improvement in players being produced , the results in div 1
    And both the Australian and NZ leagues has grown.

    The ANBL in 2005 is not what it is today.. the.number of players in major leagues (NBL , NCaa., eurpoe)
    from.ANZ , is significant

    With this 3rd window, I hope Gilas has the same growth..
    I see a significant improvement in the Philippines..with recent developments.

    We have to move on from thr model of 2014 , that does.not work..or won't work again .. cannot be repeated..using the same approach

  16. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    The level of basketball in Australia and New Zealand has risen actually in the last 10 years

    I coach.in high school, and there is a significant improvement in players being produced , the results in div 1
    And both the Australian and NZ leagues has grown.

    The ANBL in 2005 is not what it is today.. the.number of players in major leagues (NBL , NCaa., eurpoe)
    from.ANZ , is significant

    With this 3rd window, I hope Gilas has the same growth..
    I see a significant improvement in the Philippines..with recent developments.

    We have to move on from thr model of 2014 , that does.not work..or won't work again .. cannot be repeated..using the same approach
    Still NZ got eliminated early. Results are results.. Thats your arguments against WC 2014 PHI NT. So doesn't matter D1 experience and who you beat, NZ still got eliminated 8n the first round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IshmaelM View Post
    I am not saying they were not good. But they were not good enough at that level. The small guards could not lead us to a win because pace slows down in the end game. It is harder for them to score and we cant stop them. How many points did our small guards score in the last 2 minutes? What was our plus minus with the small guard lineup vs the one with June Mar?

    SMC didnt do us any favors by bloating up June Mar. But Chot didnt know how to use him when he had him. Tab knew how June Mar could be effective and if JF maintained that OQT weight he could have been much a better defender and he probably wouldnt have been injured.

    So Chot had some success. But it was not sustainable.

    Yes he included some young potential wings. But again he missed out on Balti. Considering how important Balti was for our perimeter defense now, that was a big miss.
    Our guards score more that our Bigs combine. Why 2mins, its should be 4th quarter. Remember the Jimmy explosion bin Argentina.

    I hope JF was used more effectively but have you forget his performance in Asia Cup 2013 and every tournaments after, foul prone guy. It was just his second year in PBA.

    At that time Ambohot was more popular and a starter for Letran while Balti was a bench player. Ambohot can shoot from 3pt, drive to the basket and post up even Africans of other schools. Everyone was high on Ambohot and Balti was not yet ready at that time.

  18. #1098
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    I heard Bojan Bogdanovic is playing for Croatia this oqt.. narinig ba ako ng smart/sbp (although sa August ang ipupush ko) and just let clarkson be with the team in belgrade
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  19. #1099
    Senior Member ja.he's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    Why is NZ declining. Don't compare it to other Asian nation as they are Europeans descents, compare it to other NZ NTs. Why is 2002 was the last time they enter quarter finals.
    What's up with that reasoning? Can't be compared to Asian teams because they are of European descent. Well, if that's the case, then Kazakhstan and other Middle Eastern teams (Iran, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq) will be out from your comparison since they are genetically closer to Europeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenoloxy View Post
    Same, our height averages to about 6’6 with that lineup, I think Tab will play Balti and Tamayo as small forwards full time
    Balti plays the 4 in defense , as he guards his opposing number then he plays the perimeter on offense. He starts together with Ange at 5, and Navarro at 3 at the front. Dwight and SJ bring up the rear. There's always Ange-Kai / Balti-Go combo on the floor. Tamayo subs in for Navarro.

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