Pir

[maccabeo]

i always considered PIR as a fake performance index

first of all PIR cant say anything about personal choices , forced or rational actions, useless showtime actions, but mainly is simply absurd considering +2 o +3 point each made shoot as -1 a failed shoot. they should be considered the same. if a player score 5/15 2fg his 2p score index shouldnt be considered 0 (10p-10 errors) but -10. it should eventually considered as +1,5 every 3 point made shoot ,nothing more

yesterday wilbekin killed mta and his pir was 17! (just for example)

[Katastroika]

Same like plus/minus. Without additional consideration useless statline. For me most overrated stat was always block btw.

[maccabeo]

For me most overrated stat was always block btw.

totally agree

[Gman365]

For whatever reason i never paid much attention to PIR...

Here is a link to a bunch of other advanced Euroleague stats if anyone is interested....

Fun to look at the pace category in the Euroleague compared to other leagues in different areas of the world.......The slowest in the Euroleague is 67.6 (Zalgiris) and the highest is 73.5 (Pana).....Compare that to the New Zealand NBL where the lowest is 80.7 and the highest is 88.3...........Euroleague is a slower pace league and the pick n roll is used in 41 percent of half court possessions .......

https://basketball.realgm.com/international/league/1/Euroleague/team-stats/2021/Advanced_Stats/Team_Totals

[LuDux]

Same like plus/minus. Without additional consideration useless statline. For me most overrated stat was always block btw.

Same like points

[janketa]

The main stat is shooting percentage imo. Ass/To ratio for guards too

[Killer Bob]

For whatever reason i never paid much attention to PIR...

Here is a link to a bunch of other advanced Euroleague stats if anyone is interested....

Fun to look at the pace category in the Euroleague compared to other leagues in different areas of the world.......The slowest in the Euroleague is 67.6 (Zalgiris) and the highest is 73.5 (Pana).....Compare that to the New Zealand NBL where the lowest is 80.7 and the highest is 88.3...........Euroleague is a slower pace league and the pick n roll is used in 41 percent of half court possessions .......

https://basketball.realgm.com/intern...ts/Team_Totals

Are you sure you have right data for pace? It looks very low to me.

[Gman365]

Are you sure you have right data for pace? It looks very low to me.

If you click the link , the pace column is on the far right....

[Killer Bob]

If you click the link , the pace column is on the far right....

I see it, but I not believe that numbers are right. Ortg 120, yes right.

[Katastroika]

The main stat is shooting percentage imo. Ass/To ratio for guards too

For second I agree totally if volume taken into consideration.
True Shooting Percentage and Effectiv Field Goal Percentage are important stats vor declaring player's efficicency, too.

In the states there was a great debate over PIR vs PER and almost all journalists and experts came to conclusion that PIR is worthless because it doesn't value played minutes, unlike PER. There are players that have both low PIR and PER but their "hockey assists" and effective switching, good shot challenge isn't valued either way. There will be always players that are very valuable for their system but underrepresented in this statlines. It's interesting that those players have very often good numbers in offensive and defensive ratings even their personal statlines seem to be below average.

[Killer Bob]

For second I agree totally if volume taken into consideration.
True Shooting Percentage and Effectiv Field Goal Percentage are important stats vor declaring player's efficicency, too.

In the states there was a great debate over PIR vs PER and almost all journalists and experts came to conclusion that PIR is worthless because it doesn't value played minutes, unlike PER. There are players that have both low PIR and PER but their "hockey assists" and effective switching, good shot challenge isn't valued either way. There will be always players that are very valuable for their system but underrepresented in this statlines. It's interesting that those players have very often good numbers in offensive and defensive ratings even their personal statlines seem to be below average.

Pir and even Per are more or less worthless alone. Shooting % is worthless too without context, players are just not taking similar shots. In USA all counting stats are looked at with some distance. I believe the best way to go is some combination of counting stats, advanced stats and +/-, on/off. They tried to invent one for all stat. RPM and especially RAPM are considered the best but still not always exact. RAPM, Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus, is in my opinion the best. The problem is, it's the best in the end of the season. And maybe even bigger problem is that is not public knowledge, how is RPM calculated.

[Katastroika]

Yeah, but public presence of from you mentioned and in scouting analyzed stat-date-sheets shows that except coaching staffs and total fanatics noone really cares, so...

The clue is, as mentioned from you, to combine different statlines and adapt them to certain situations. It's the only way to see how a player is working in a system.

[Killer Bob]

Yeah, but public presence of from you mentioned and in scouting analyzed stat-date-sheets shows that except coaching staffs and total fanatics noone really cares, so...

The clue is, as mentioned from you, to combine different statlines and adapt them to certain situations. It's the only way to see how a player is working in a system.

RPM is eagerly expected by many. It comes out only after approximately 20 games. RAPM even later.

[Katastroika]

RPM is eagerly expected by many. It comes out only after approximately 20 games. RAPM even later.

I know, I check it at ESPN when available. They have own section for it. What I want to say it that is has no public value in the states that it should have. Just watch regular broadcasts and stats that are analyzed.

[Killer Bob]

I know, I check it at ESPN when available. They have own section for it. What I want to say it that is has no public value in the states that it should have. Just watch regular broadcasts and stats that are analyzed.

I believe the biggest problem for RPM/RAPM is, that is not known, how is calculated. That kinda undermines value of it. How will you grade something you don't know, how is really built? Sure, some mystery can make it more interesting, but in the end I would for sure like more to know, what I'm looking at. And to make things even more complicated, they're changing it all the time.