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Thread: Future Wing Men of Philippine Basketball

  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    Interesting Question: Are Balti and Tamayo wings now?

    A lot of people/fans are treating and labeling them as a Wing Now.

    Especially they are like 6'7 and 6'8

    And we have that notion of " Wings Must be 6'7-6'10. ⁹
    Yes, pinoys mix up size, height, skills and international use cases.

    A quick 6'7", powerfully built and as mean as mike tyson, can be a very good center even at top ten fiba levels. The nba has proven that athletic, stocky and skilled "shorties" can handle 7footers. Shortie heavily muscled ratliffe has shown this to be true, although against raw kai and kouame.

    6'7 to 6'10 dinaric slavs are very good wings because they have been naturally tall as a people for hundreds of years (genetics), and thus athletic young 6'7 ballers are the rule to them, and exception to pinoys.

    To be fiba-competitive against world top players like serbs, croats and slovenes, therefore, 6'7 and taller pinoy wings are a must -- you shouldnt give any physical edge to enemies in international basketball wars, where every loss hurts terribly, if not is disastrous. For mere pba or pacquiao entertainment league purposes, a 6foot or so wing like abueva already works fine.

    Australia is a very nice baller case. Although it has the same disadvantages of the philippines in being not mere car/bus distance from european countries (and thus for very cheap good scrimmages), it has tons of tall skilled players. They have good nutrition and tallness genetics that made for thousands of well-built and athletic aussies. Thus, their local baller leagues, and rugby, are never short of bigly bigs.

    Ang problema ng pinoy ay ambisyon. We would like to imagine that our players can win against top ten countries even when pinoy baller hardware and software are evidently not good enough. If we had very modest aims, say like being top dog in the asean baller region, short wings and unbig bigs are often enough.

    Kapag inambisyon ng mga abueva-sized pinoy na talunin ang mga nba "forwardables" gaya ni 7foot mvp jokic, gifted 6'7 doncic, nba champion 6'11 kevin durant, 6'11 na antetokounmpo, atbp killing machines, iba na iyon. Baka kahunghangan na.

    Kung confident naman mga pinoy na pwede ng talunin ng mga rj, sj o abando ang mga westbook o donkic, e di lumaban.
    Last edited by ccharmed; 06-18-2021 at 12:40 AM.

  2. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    Interesting Question: Are Balti and Tamayo wings now?

    A lot of people/fans are treating and labeling them as a Wing Now.

    Especially they are like 6'7 and 6'8

    And we have that notion of " Wings Must be 6'7-6'10. ⁹
    Tamayo plays a lot like an undersized Saric. Not really tall or athletic but can shoot, handle the ball, rebounds, post up, and pass. He's really polished and composed for his age. I hope he won't regress in college

  3. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by sroth3839 View Post
    6'6-6'7 small forwards are looking like the new norm in the future.

    very promising indeed.
    I hope this can become the general rule. I do hope that small ball (as in, regardless of height, the 4 is a small forward or the 5 is a forward, or both) for development purposes will find a place in Philippine basketball. Plus, we may need to accept foreigners to stick our 6'6"-6'7" guys in the forward positions.

  4. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    Interesting Question: Are Balti and Tamayo wings now?

    A lot of people/fans are treating and labeling them as a Wing Now.

    Especially they are like 6'7 and 6'8

    And we have that notion of " Wings Must be 6'7-6'10. ⁹
    More likely a combo forward(can play either the 3 or the 4 position)..

  5. #885
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    Legit 6'6" to 6'8" guys are not short. 6'4.75" guys like Jordan and Kobe were overbilled by the NBA. If they play in the current NBA they are going to be listed at 6'5".

  6. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulLee3 View Post
    Legit 6'6" to 6'8" guys are not short. 6'4.75" guys like Jordan and Kobe were overbilled by the NBA. If they play in the current NBA they are going to be listed at 6'5".
    Thats whybcs a wing in germany has become a big in the us..
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

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    Just watched Ryan Rossiter, the NP of Japan. I hope our forwards will learn a thing or two about his play making and basketball IQ.. He basically played just outside the 3 pt arc and directs traffic there. He played point forward effectively for Japan vs China.
    Last edited by Dotch; 06-19-2021 at 05:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotch View Post
    Just watched Ryan Rossiter, the NP of Japan. I hope our forwards will learn a thing or two about his play making and basketball IQ.. He basically played just outside the 3 pt arc and directs traffic there. He played point forward effectively for Japan vs China.

    Yeah, he looked like Jason Tatum there

  9. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    Interesting Question: Are Balti and Tamayo wings now?

    A lot of people/fans are treating and labeling them as a Wing Now.

    Especially they are like 6'7 and 6'8

    And we have that notion of " Wings Must be 6'7-6'10. ⁹
    Balti looks to be in the process of being a modern 3nD wing. He can defend the post and perimeter on defense for a switch while also spreading the floor for with his 3 and can also post up.

    Tamayo is the tweener. He has the skills but unlike Balti, he doesn't have his athleticism. Tamayo however, could be a Jae Crowder/Draymond as a playmaking 4. If he gets in shape, he could be converted. But I see him as a smallball 4 until then.

  10. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurklurk View Post
    Aside from KP, note that all of our tallest eligible wings (navarro, balti, tamayo even lopez) are in this current roster. Contiuous development of this 3 or 4 guys is key to sustain our size.
    I hope there are settings in our youth level which can provide environments that will help our tall players (6'5"-6'7") playing as wings, whether as a 3 or a small-ball 4. That way, we can produce wings the size Navarro, Kobe, and Lopez (and maybe Baltazar).

    Thing is, it's likely that these settings will not be as many.

  11. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Any chance Troy would have been developed into the kind of player that Baltazar is right now with Gilas if Troy had been under coach Tab's system during his early 20's?
    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Given the success with Baltazar and Tamayo (albeit a small sample size), it's more than likely that Troy would have developed into a Baltazar-type. He would have been more versatile and less of a defensive liability.

    Shame that TNT can't properly develop guys like Troy. He's just a stretch 4 who's active on the glass and is a defensive liability. He can't create that well too. TNT also limited Mo Tautuua, and when he left, doon lumabas ang laro niya.

    It's the team he's with, e. Stretch 4's, and nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by robert0326 View Post
    Actually all PBA teams failed to develop more wings, guys like Canaleta, Intal, Escotto, Maierhoffer, Guevarra, etc.. could be develop into wing players ala Baltazar, But PBA coaches put them all as stretch 4, Or sometimes small ball 5.. Look at now Roosevelt Adams on how Terrafirma did it to him? Wing yan then all of suddenly ginagawa syang stretch 4.. I'm sure Malonzo will be the next victim of poor PBA development...
    I was referring to Troy as a small-ball big, but yeah, you make a great point. Kung small ball, sana as a small-ball four. Plus, they weren't given the proper environment (an established 6'7"+ PF and a 6'10"+ center (which more often than not are foreigners). I hope environment is considered, because it's of paramount importance if we're gonna develop tall wings.

    Well, if your best 3-men are 6'3" and under players, you're definitely gonna use them. Eto nga rin sakit sa atin, e.

    As for Malonzo, I think he's gonna be a smalll-ball 4 at worst. Pido doesn't play 6'4" Manganti and 6'5" Ferrer as traditional stretch fours, so OK lang naman. Here's the problem with PBA coaching. In a lot of cases, you just develop what the player has. You don't add a lot to that player's skillset. Coaches like Yeng and Topex Robinson are the exception in the PBA.

  12. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon9000 View Post
    Balti looks to be in the process of being a modern 3nD wing. He can defend the post and perimeter on defense for a switch while also spreading the floor for with his 3 and can also post up.

    Tamayo is the tweener. He has the skills but unlike Balti, he doesn't have his athleticism. Tamayo however, could be a Jae Crowder/Draymond as a playmaking 4. If he gets in shape, he could be converted. But I see him as a smallball 4 until then.
    Good comparison between Tamayo & Baltazar.

    Tamayo's edge over Baltazar is that at 20, he's already playing for the Gilas cadet under coach Tab. So you could just imagine how good Tamayo most likely would become 2 to 3 years from now. Baltazar on the other hand is already 23/24 when he's playing with the cadets. I think both guys have decent 3-point shooting, I see Tamayo as having the better handles than Baltazar.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    6'7" Jeo Ambohot was part of the 23 for 2023. he's a natural small forward and have decent perimeter shooting. i hope coach tab invite this player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tootch View Post
    6'7" Jeo Ambohot was part of the 23 for 2023. he's a natural small forward and have decent perimeter shooting. i hope coach tab invite this player.
    ... Just need to get pass Chua in Letran

  16. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Good comparison between Tamayo & Baltazar.

    Tamayo's edge over Baltazar is that at 20, he's already playing for the Gilas cadet under coach Tab. So you could just imagine how good Tamayo most likely would become 2 to 3 years from now. Baltazar on the other hand is already 23/24 when he's playing with the cadets. I think both guys have decent 3-point shooting, I see Tamayo as having the better handles than Baltazar.
    Tamayo has the higher ceiling in terms of potential with his impact w/ the ball but it becomes question of when will he put it all together. A playmaking wing w/ slashing and shooting is impactful.

    Balti, I agree is a near finished product and hence he is most portable player as a 3nD wing. He is the most stable of the two now but that also means his production will be based on how much space is given when the defense doesn't focus on him.

    One is a potential star or 6thman while the other will be a good starting role player. I thinks its great that both are in the pool to have roster depth.

  17. #897
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    Tab’s most recent comments about balti playing as a wing:
    "Balti was better at power forward again, but it's going to be a process for him, it's going to be a long road to becoming a wing player but he has all the tools to do it," Baldwin said.

  18. #898
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    I just remembered.Tab has another potential 6'7"-6'8" wing in his own backyard in Kyle Ong. If he really is mobile and can shoot, he might be able to imitate Tamayo and Baltazar.

    Can be a good-sized wing at best, and a tweener forwad at worst. Both good outcomes.

  19. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon9000 View Post
    Tamayo has the higher ceiling in terms of potential with his impact w/ the ball but it becomes question of when will he put it all together. A playmaking wing w/ slashing and shooting is impactful.

    Balti, I agree is a near finished product and hence he is most portable player as a 3nD wing. He is the most stable of the two now but that also means his production will be based on how much space is given when the defense doesn't focus on him.

    One is a potential star or 6thman while the other will be a good starting role player. I thinks its great that both are in the pool to have roster depth.
    the way i look at this, best case scenario:

    tamayo = poor man's carmelo anthony
    balti = poor man's & smaller chris bosh

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    It would be nice to expose Lopez as SG. Both Ramos and Lopez have international size SG.

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