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Basketball country with the best guard developing country

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  • Basketball country with the best guard developing country

    A topic I always wondered.

    As you know the most difficult position to raise in early times and now is the point guard position. You are always in front if you have solid guards even though you are weaker in other positions. Many serious basketball countries have been looking for years to find a solid guard and on the other hand there are countries which were able to develop some solid guards throughout history. I chose 4 countries which are famous for their guards.

    How would be the ranking between these countries?

    Argentina
    Spain
    Serbia
    Greece

    Are there other countries you would like to add and if yes why?

    In order to remind you of some names in my mind:

    Greece: Giannakis, Diamantidis, Spanoulis, Papaloukas, Zisis, Calathes, Sloukas and Nikolaidis
    Spain, Ricky Rubio, Sergio Rodriguez, (Llull, Navarro), Raul Lopez
    Argentina: Campazzo, Laprovitola, Brussino, Ginobili, Bolmaro
    Serbia: Teodosic, Jovic, Markovic, Micic... dont want to go too far.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Toruko View Post
    A topic I always wondered.

    As you know the most difficult position to raise in early times and now is the point guard position. You are always in front if you have solid guards even though you are weaker in other positions. Many serious basketball countries have been looking for years to find a solid guard and on the other hand there are countries which were able to develop some solid guards throughout history. I chose 4 countries which are famous for their guards.

    How would be the ranking between these countries?

    Argentina
    Spain
    Serbia
    Greece

    Are there other countries you would like to add and if yes why?

    In order to remind you of some names in my mind:

    Greece: Giannakis, Diamantidis, Spanoulis, Papaloukas, Zisis, Calathes, Sloukas and Nikolaidis
    Spain, Ricky Rubio, Sergio Rodriguez, (Llull, Navarro), Raul Lopez
    Argentina: Campazzo, Laprovitola, Brussino, Ginobili, Bolmaro
    Serbia: Teodosic, Jovic, Markovic, Micic... dont want to go too far.

    Any reason you are keeping USA, Canada, Australia out of the conversation? Fair enough if you are focusing on European countries, but the inclusion of Argentina throws that into question. I guess the USA is just a pointless conversation but:
    Canada: Nash, Joseph, Murray, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Wiggins, Barrett and on an on (another 10+(?) current and recent ex-NBA guards)
    Australia: Mills, Delly, Simmons, Exum etc.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mojo13 View Post
      Any reason you are keeping USA, Canada, Australia out of the conversation? Fair enough if you are focusing on European countries, but the inclusion of Argentina throws that into question. I guess the USA is just a pointless conversation but:
      Canada: Nash, Joseph, Murray, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Wiggins, Barrett and on an on (another 10+(?) current and recent ex-NBA guards)
      Australia: Mills, Delly, Simmons, Exum etc.
      I was indeed focussing on European guards and the reason why i included Argentinian guards is that most of them were or are playing in Europe but your critics are understandable because I totally forgot or ignored Canada or Australia.

      USA is a special case. Such an overprodaction and flood of american Guards overall the world cant be compared if you take Larkin for instance who couldnt establish himself in the NBA but is without a doubt the best player in Europe.

      Canada is rosterwise also without a doubt the second best team in the world. But youre welcome to share your opinion about the guard problem in Europe. I think the problem got intensified after the game change with switching defenses which made it more needed that guards with first step and abilities to penetrate had an increasing value.

      Comment


      • #4
        New development leaders are clearly Canada and France.

        I think you overlooked France and Slovenia and even Lithuania and Croatia. France and Slovenia have historically most glorious backcourts. France Parker (bordeline NBA superstar), Fournier (elite NBA true guard), Slovenia Doncic (NBA superstar), Dragic (elite NBA guard). None others European teams have or had that. Lithuania had elite NBA guard in Marciulionis (Greece, Spain f.e. never had such), while Croatia Petrovic.
        LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

        Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
        Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
        Buzelis, Lelevicius
        Murauskas, Sirvydis
        Tubelis, Krivas

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
          New development leaders are clearly Canada and France.

          I think you overlooked France and Slovenia and even Lithuania and Croatia. France and Slovenia have historically most glorious backcourts. France Parker (bordeline NBA superstar), Fournier (elite NBA true guard), Slovenia Doncic (NBA superstar), Dragic (elite NBA guard). None others European teams have or had that. Lithuania had elite NBA guard in Marciulionis (Greece, Spain f.e. never had such), while Croatia Petrovic.
          Slovenia doesnt play a role. Doncic is a fine guy but he alone (Dragic retired after Eurobasket 17) is not enough and the country is too tiny. It has solid prospects with Klavzar and some others but it is not enough to take a serious role. France had indeed some Guards but it also still has serious guard problems. Fournier is a solid scorer but nothing more. He cant create for others. Similar things can be said about De Colo. The rest is more defensively oriented guys who cant create.

          Lithuania cant bring up a serious guard for a decade more than a decade now. I must say my expectations are very high so i dont count guys like Kalnietis etc. Same goes to Croatia like Lithuania very solid bigs but very poor in Guards.

          Traditional guard nations are Argentina, Spain, Serbia and Argentina for me, maybe also Puerto Rico and Australia (letting USA and Canada beside)

          Comment


          • #6
            Thinking more about Canada - here is what that guard depth looks like from my perspective:


            Tier 1
            Jamal Murray, SGA, Andrew Wiggins

            Tier 2
            Cory Joseph, Luguentz Dort, RJ Barrett, Dillon Brooks

            Tier 3
            Nickeil Alexander Walker, Tyler Ennis, Mychal Mulder, Nik Stuaskas, Kevin Pangos, Naz Mitrou Long, Marial Shayok

            Tier 4
            Kaza Kajami Keane, Kassius Robertson, Phil Scrubb, Dylan Ennis, Kenny Chery, Olivier Hanlan


            I won't tier NCAA until I see them in a pro setting but many more names coming up - Karim Mane, Andrew Nembhard, AJ, Lawson, Nate Darling, Josh Primo etc.

            Bold indicates those that have played for the Canadian senior team. Almost all have played FIBA U16,17,18,19 for Canada.


            I really hated the WC Qualification process at the beginning - but it really gave allot of these guys a chance to rep Canada, get FIBA experience and learn a system. The problem is it has been mostly the lower tier guys that have been consistently available. We really need opportunities for the top Tier guys to show up an play together if we are ever going to do anything notable with this deep talent pool.
            Last edited by mojo13; 08-07-2020, 05:24 PM.

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            • #7
              Calling Croatia a country that develops guards will make every Croatian basketball fan cry or laugh, I suppose.

              I buy Lithuania and Argentina and Canada. Very difficult to buy France. I don't see a reason in calling them in while they have in fact noone except Parker and the next best player is Heurtel. Everyone else is to be seen. France is heavily overrated for the next years. Their best player is Fournier. A good player and let's say a game changer (even I don't think so) but who else?

              Development of guards is in my opinion more a strategical view on your basketball school and the way players are taught the game than analyzing the world class that jumps out in almost every country. How tactically and physically are guards prepared than ran through your systems.

              Generally the impression is that we are way behind the 90's in quality and quantity. 90% of playmakers today look like robots, a lot of shooting guards can do literally nothing than shoot and then people are surprised when they suck at their national teams.

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