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  • #46
    Originally posted by Jazz View Post
    I've only seen up to episode 4 but am really enjoying it. I think anyone with an interest in 80s and 90s NBA would enjoy this.

    You're right about Kukoc. I wonder if it's partly because he's quite supportive of Jerry Krause. This documentary is quite negative towards Krause and based on recent statements I think Kukoc feels they aren't giving him his due. He was the guy who put that team together after all, but he seems to be getting vilified for doing what a good GM does- looking to the future. That's not to say I agree with decisions that the Bulls took around that time or afterwards and I can see that it would have been preferable for that Bulls team to keep on playing and eventually get dethroned.
    Jerry gets shown in better light a bit later. The biggest hackjob in that documentary is about the other Jerry, Jerry Reinsdorf, who owns the Bulls. He is the problematic one. Yes, he did say to Scottie not to sign that contract, but if you do not feel the need to renegotiate that and keep the guy happy that along with Michael helped you win 5 titles, you are a fucking moron. It was easy to single out Jerry Krause, who was put in a shitty place by the owner, who wouldn't spend money and he had to be proactive and start the rebuild. In my opinion, the documentary just gave Reinsdorf a pass.

    Many people who didn't watch the 80s and 90s basketball forget that Michael Jordan played 15 seasons in his career, and 13 out of those 15 seasons he was severely underpaid by the same owner Jerry Reinsdorf. He was the best paid player in the league TWICE, in 1997 and 1997 when he signed a 1-year 30 mil and 1-year 33 mil contract for the Bulls. He refused to give a discount to the Bulls after what they did to him. So yes, in a sense that left very little money for other players, but if you have such a team, you shell out cash to Pippen and keep them until the wheels come off and win some more titles.

    In 1999, they should've been able to handle the Spurs, especially with Rodman on Duncan. 2000 would've been a classic finals vs Lakers. After that, they would've been done...

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    • #47
      @Jazz

      Another thing about the documentary. When they are talking about the Dream Team and all that, I might possibly the only person who loved the 1992 USA Select team they scrimmage with more Of course the Dream Team is better and all that but check this roster of kids. It has two of my favorite players in NBA all time, I'l let you guess who they are.

      G Penny Hardaway
      G Alan Houston
      F Grant Hill
      F Jamal Washburn
      F Chris Webber

      Plub Bobby Hurley, Eric Montross and Rodney Rogers

      Comment


      • #48
        Yeah, that's a good point, in the episodes I've seen there wasn't much focus on Reinsdorf at all.
        Ha, that was some jump in salary between 1996 and 97.

        Some people think that 99 might have been tough on the Bulls because of the impact of the lockout season schedule on older players. Do you think that would have been a factor, Coach? How much longer do you think Jordan could have stayed at a high level?

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        • #49
          Your avatar might have given me a clue there Coach!

          Some serious talent in that group.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Jazz View Post
            Yeah, that's a good point, in the episodes I've seen there wasn't much focus on Reinsdorf at all.
            Ha, that was some jump in salary between 1996 and 97.

            Some people think that 99 might have been tough on the Bulls because of the impact of the lockout season schedule on older players. Do you think that would have been a factor, Coach? How much longer do you think Jordan could have stayed at a high level?
            I think that veteran teams do better with lockout seasons. They need less time to gel and kick it up in higher gear. Also lockout lowers the wear on their bodies, so they would be more fresh for the playoffs. Just look at the teams that made it far. Knicks with Sprewel, Johnson, Ewing, Pacers with Mark Jackson, Reggie, Jalen Rose, Davis Bros, Rik Smits, Hawks with Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith, Laphonso Ellis and Dikembe. The only team in the East that was youngish but made it to SemiFinals in the Conference was Philly with Iverson, Snow, Ratliff.

            In the West, San Antonio was there with Duncan and the retirement home of Avery Jackson, Sean Elliot, Jerome Kersey, Steve Kerr, David Robinson all on the bad side of 30. Utah was there, also old as fuck. Houston with Pippen, Barkely and Hakeem, all in the mid 30s. The only team in the West that was young, but got swept in the 1999 WC Finals were the Jailblazers with Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudamire, Bonzi Wells, Isiah Rider, Jermain O'Neal all 25 and under, with Sabonis at 34 They got swept by San Antonio, but would come back next year to make it tough on the Lakers.

            I believe that in a shortened season, Bulls would be the favorite to with the fourth title in a row.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Jazz View Post
              Your avatar might have given me a clue there Coach!

              Some serious talent in that group.
              Well, yeah that No. 1 Penny is my hero of the youth

              The second one will be interesting.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by CoachZ View Post
                I think that veteran teams do better with lockout seasons. They need less time to gel and kick it up in higher gear. Also lockout lowers the wear on their bodies, so they would be more fresh for the playoffs. Just look at the teams that made it far. Knicks with Sprewel, Johnson, Ewing, Pacers with Mark Jackson, Reggie, Jalen Rose, Davis Bros, Rik Smits, Hawks with Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith, Laphonso Ellis and Dikembe. The only team in the East that was youngish but made it to SemiFinals in the Conference was Philly with Iverson, Snow, Ratliff.

                In the West, San Antonio was there with Duncan and the retirement home of Avery Jackson, Sean Elliot, Jerome Kersey, Steve Kerr, David Robinson all on the bad side of 30. Utah was there, also old as fuck. Houston with Pippen, Barkely and Hakeem, all in the mid 30s. The only team in the West that was young, but got swept in the 1999 WC Finals were the Jailblazers with Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudamire, Bonzi Wells, Isiah Rider, Jermain O'Neal all 25 and under, with Sabonis at 34 They got swept by San Antonio, but would come back next year to make it tough on the Lakers.

                I believe that in a shortened season, Bulls would be the favorite to with the fourth title in a row.
                I think the theory was that for those few months teams were playing an extra game or so per week but you've offered up some pretty good evidence of older teams still being successful that season.

                True about Utah.

                Originally posted by CoachZ View Post
                Well, yeah that No. 1 Penny is my hero of the youth

                The second one will be interesting.
                I think it's Chris Webber. I know you said before about the Kings being robbed in 2002.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jazz View Post
                  I think the theory was that for those few months teams were playing an extra game or so per week but you've offered up some pretty good evidence of older teams still being successful that season.

                  True about Utah.



                  I think it's Chris Webber. I know you said before about the Kings being robbed in 2002.
                  I loved those Kings and Chris, but it's actually Grant Hill. Funny how two favorite players of mine both had HoF careers ruined by injuries.

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                  • #54
                    I'm about 100 pages into the Jonathan Abrams book "Boys Among Men" which talks about the players who made the jump from high school to the NBA in the 90s and 00s. Apparently Jerry Krause almost traded Scottie Pippen in 1997 to move up in the draft and select Tracy McGrady. That was quite close to happening and as a result Jordan threatened to retire... again.

                    Another interesting point was that the Lakers didn't have their own practice facility in 1996/97 and possibly later. They would rent a court for a couple of hours. An interesting example of how the league wasn't set up to help young players at the time, although we know that someone as driven as Kobe would make his own arrangements to get extra practice in.
                    I'd heard about NBA teams using college or high school courts for training but it still seems bizarre that a team of the stature of the Lakers was working with that kind of setup.

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                    • #55
                      No quarantine times in Slovenia anymore.
                      previously known as Beno

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Isnt quarantine time ,but 6 months without basketball in Europe,except 10days of Liga Endesa ,makes significant void in my everyday life ,even when I avoid boredom and doing something else ,still I feel some lack .That is interesting ,because last few years, period between two seasons didnt change my schedule .too much.

                        I read books,but also that was did before Covid19,especially during quarantine time ,so I reduce for a while .Watching football ,Serie A and La Liga . I watch movies periodically .So now isnt period.Its Summer time,but in Serbia,after dusk, there are 16C or 17C ,isnt comfotable be outside long time .Seems like now it is half of September .

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                        • #57
                          Quarantine times are back With strict restrictions we basically can't leave the house now, meet friends, so I guess there'll be so much free time during these holidays to watch some TV shows, movies and etc. But it's good and needed restrictions, Lithuanian situation is awful lately, we are among the leaders in the world what comes to new cases... tUrrible

                          Originally posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
                          It was interesting to watch, but after the last seconds of the 2nd season a mess that already had been there was only added and i understood there won't be an explanation for all that mess.
                          I like horror/mistique and all that around stuff. The series that i liked more than "Dark" that i have watched recently have been "Hounting of Hill House" (It's strange i don't see anywhere people would recommend it), "Carnival Row" (I remember an old "Carnival" was good), "See", Korean "Kingdom". I didn't know what to watch after i stopped some not interesting series and begun "Castle Rock", anybody watched?
                          I guess you already know it, but 2nd season of "Haunting if Hill House" was aired some time ago, called "Haunting of Bly Manor". But not as good as 1st season of the show. When you dig deeper it still has important message sent in the story to think about, but the story itself around it is weaker, also less mystery, less suspense. I kinda like when series takes it slow to build characters and etc., but at some points this one was just too slow. 1st season was much better for my liking, surely worth a shot for the ones who enjoys mystery/drama, without lot of stupid jump scares

                          Also heard that Fargo creators fckd up with 4th season. 1st one was awesome, 2nd was amazing, 3rd good, now don't know if to give it a go with 4th one, don't want to spoil the impression. It was one of the best TV shows ever. Just like Sopranos, which I managed to watch now in full, not just randomly when it was aired on TV here in LT some years ago

                          What I liked lately and was kinda surprised about was British TV series "Brassic", has some vibe of Guy Ritchie's early works like "Lock, stock...", "Snatch". Not as good as latter, but still surprisingly fun

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Mindozas View Post
                            What I liked lately and was kinda surprised about was British TV series "Brassic", has some vibe of Guy Ritchie's early works like "Lock, stock...", "Snatch". Not as good as latter, but still surprisingly fun
                            I haven't seen this series myself but it has been advertised quite extensively on UK tv. I really didn't imagine it being even being broadcast in other territories so was interested that you mentioned it!

                            Also, I didn't even realise that there is a season 4 of Fargo.

                            Has anyone watched the Tottenham series on Amazon? I'm honestly surprised by the amount of access they got to Mourinho and the players. I've only seen a couple of episodes so far but it's very entertaining.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jazz View Post
                              I haven't seen this series myself but it has been advertised quite extensively on UK tv. I really didn't imagine it being even being broadcast in other territories so was interested that you mentioned it!
                              It wasn't broadcast here, but I'm an oldschool pirate, downloading it all via torrents actually don't even remember where did I find out about the show, probably some torrents comments section where it was offered, but it was a fun ride, saw that 3rd season is in plans, so will have to check it out too. Good thing to spend time if you don't want anything too serious.

                              I didn't know about Tottenham, but could they make a deal with other club? man, I just don't like current Spurs at all. But I will give it a go, simply cause I like football

                              Today planning to start watching "Fargo" 4th season and will check Nolan's "Tenet". Latter was probably the most awaited movie of 2020, but very different reviews, lot of people simply didn't get the whole idea. Nolan is famous with mindfuck tho I really like his Interstellar, but e.g. Inception was kinda nich nich, even tho Leo is one of my favorite actors, but it was too mindfuck and then the ending disappointed. Might be that Nolan crossed a line a bit with Tenet, we'll see

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mindozas View Post
                                It wasn't broadcast here, but I'm an oldschool pirate, downloading it all via torrents actually don't even remember where did I find out about the show, probably some torrents comments section where it was offered, but it was a fun ride, saw that 3rd season is in plans, so will have to check it out too. Good thing to spend time if you don't want anything too serious.

                                I didn't know about Tottenham, but could they make a deal with other club? man, I just don't like current Spurs at all. But I will give it a go, simply cause I like football

                                Today planning to start watching "Fargo" 4th season and will check Nolan's "Tenet". Latter was probably the most awaited movie of 2020, but very different reviews, lot of people simply didn't get the whole idea. Nolan is famous with mindfuck tho I really like his Interstellar, but e.g. Inception was kinda nich nich, even tho Leo is one of my favorite actors, but it was too mindfuck and then the ending disappointed. Might be that Nolan crossed a line a bit with Tenet, we'll see
                                Thanks for explaining. Was surprised to see it mentioned on here but glad you enjoyed watching.

                                I think you'll definitely find the Spurs doc interesting. I'd recommend the Sunderland series too. I know there's one on Man City as well but the reviews weren't as good for it.

                                One thing I heard about Tenet was that viewers were complaining about how much of the dialogue was inaudible, although it seems like that was an intentional choice from the director.

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