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Thread: Euroleague Regular Season: Week 28

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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Default Euroleague Regular Season: Week 28

    Another awful game from Fener and bad coaching of Obradovic. We lost the important game and in the same time tie break with Khimki. After Armani that makes two teams we are worse in head to head from teams fighting for 6-8 spots.

    Larkin proved how big player he is and every comparation with Wilbekin sounds ridiculous. The only player he could compare with is Mirotic, but Larkin is better and deserves better contract from Efes next season.

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    some mta fan should learn ah hard true: we are in playoffs because of : 1 great character 2 wilbekin-hunter 3 3p attempts
    after that , our actual rooster is clerely a weak roster (acy and jack wouldnt play in italian league where reynolds wasnt that good. zoosman and avdija arent grewing up as we hope altought i think avdjia will have great career not in nba, but in europe) and our offensive org is so poor. is just an individualist show every week
    so, the 4th or 5th place is the same. we have no chance vs cska anyway, but i think we also should focus sfair errors after we ve lost diba wol and black. their repleacement were to mediocre and this is even a bigger error than a usual error, because with two really good players we could get f4 this year

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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post

    Larkin comparation oved how big player he is anwith Wilbekin sounds ridiculous.
    probably are same fans who tought of jackson as a messiah
    unfortunatly mta fans are usually blind for passion. wil is a great shooter. stop. nothing more. so surely an important player but u who can compare him with a player wo si same leve shooter, plus a great penetrator, plus such a energic player like larkin?

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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maccabeo View Post
    probably are same fans who tought of jackson as a messiah
    unfortunatly mta fans are usually blind for passion. wil is a great shooter. stop. nothing more. so surely an important player but u who can compare him with a player wo si same leve shooter, plus a great penetrator, plus such a energic player like larkin?
    There are blind people here, sure.. Such comparation is stupidity.
    Larkin, two space empty, then Mirotic, De Colo, Higgins etc...

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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Some Pao fans always say how they cannot be competitive because of the budget, but what about comparison between James-Hackett vs. Calathes-Fredette? Cska’s pair is a class better and much cheaper.
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    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Some Pao fans always say how they cannot be competitive because of the budget, but what about comparison between James-Hackett vs. Calathes-Fredette? Cska’s pair is a class better and much cheaper.
    Well, Fredette is not PG, he is SG, so it's Calathes & Rice against James & Hacket, but also Fredette, Johnson, Papapetrou & Rautins against Hilliard, Saint Ross, Baker, Kurbanov & Strelnieks, and there CSKA clearly has advantage.

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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    Well, Fredette is not PG, he is SG, so it's Calathes & Rice against James & Hacket, but also Fredette, Johnson, Papapetrou & Rautins against Hilliard, Saint Ross, Baker, Kurbanov & Strelnieks, and there CSKA clearly has advantage.
    James is more Sg than Pg and he plays a lot with Hackett, so we can easily compare them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Some Pao fans always say how they cannot be competitive because of the budget, but what about comparison between James-Hackett vs. Calathes-Fredette? Cska’s pair is a class better and much cheaper.
    You need to give this a rest Bob. I say this in a very friendly way. If you disagree with the fundamental fact that more money can buy you better players, I don't know what to tell you. 3/4 teams of the F4 are almost always the richest.

    Could there be better management? Yes.
    Do Calathes and Jimmer make a lot more than they should? Yes.
    Could we find other options? Maybe yes.

    Just because the management has been terrible in the past years, this doesn't mean that we could directly compete with the Real, Efes, Barca of this world.

    You seem like a numbers guy. Money doesn't guarantee success but almost all successful teams are wealthy.
    On some other post someone wrote that "Pao fans didn't attribute their teams success to money" and that's entirely incorrect. Every thinking person knows that success comes with investment and only in few cases there is an exception.

    PS: True basketball fans would kill to have Hackett on Pao. But his stint with Oly made that impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    You need to give this a rest Bob. I say this in a very friendly way. If you disagree with the fundamental fact that more money can buy you better players, I don't know what to tell you. 3/4 teams of the F4 are almost always the richest.

    Could there be better management? Yes.
    Do Calathes and Jimmer make a lot more than they should? Yes.
    Could we find other options? Maybe yes.

    Just because the management has been terrible in the past years, this doesn't mean that we could directly compete with the Real, Efes, Barca of this world.

    You seem like a numbers guy. Money doesn't guarantee success but almost all successful teams are wealthy.
    On some other post someone wrote that "Pao fans didn't attribute their teams success to money" and that's entirely incorrect. Every thinking person knows that success comes with investment and only in few cases there is an exception.

    PS: True basketball fans would kill to have Hackett on Pao. But his stint with Oly made that impossible.
    1. I can write here whatever I want. And you can disagree or ignore me or whatever.
    2. I’m not saying that Pao should be favourite to win Euroleague or even made F4. But they for sure must play better than being 1-12 in playoffs.
    3. Pao’s salaries is much bigger than some people here presents. Comparing net salaries to the whole budget of some teams is completely wrong.
    4. You had Calathes and James and not be able to do anything. Now we can see that James is more than capable to lead a team like Cska and Calathes couldn’t do anything in 5 years, no matter with who he plays or who the coach is. I know it’s just the budget problem and he would have had multiple titles with more reach team.
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    1. Yes you can. I didn't imply otherwise. But it shows a bit of spite. That's all.
    2. There is no difference between 0-3, 2-3 loss in a playoffs series.
    3. Until there is concrete evidence for that, it's just speculation which adds to the "spite" that I mentioned before.
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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    1. Yes you can. I didn't imply otherwise. But it shows a bit of spite. That's all.
    2. There is no difference between 0-3, 2-3 loss in a playoffs series.
    3. Until there is concrete evidence for that, it's just speculation which adds to the "spite" that I mentioned before.
    2. It’s a big difference. First team had no chance to win a series and second was very close. That’s the difference between going home with a bus or come home with a big respect and build on that result next year.
    3. Of course we have evidence. People more or less know what net salaries of Pao players are, we just need to add taxes, which are known too. Gross salaries are at least 15 mio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    2. It’s a big difference. First team had no chance to win a series and second was very close. That’s the difference between going home with a bus or come home with a big respect and build on that result next year.
    3. Of course we have evidence. People more or less know what net salaries of Pao players are, we just need to add taxes, which are known too. Gross salaries are at least 15 mio.
    Alright. I won't argue on this. Whatever suits you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Alright. I won't argue on this. Whatever suits you.
    It’s not about what suits me, it’s about my opinion. I might be wrong, I might be Calathes’s hater, but 5 years looking exactly the same must have something to do with your leader. You have much poorer clubs, which had much better success in those 5 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    It’s not about what suits me, it’s about my opinion. I might be wrong, I might be Calathes’s hater, but 5 years looking exactly the same must have something to do with your leader. You have much poorer clubs, which had much better success in those 5 years.
    Fyi, I agree with all of those things. Calathes gets paid a lot, has glaring disadvantages but only 1 poorer team each year does better than us

    This is irrelevant to what we were talking about before. Just because we could manage our money better, it doesn't necessarily mean that we would do better or that we can compete with the rich (and good) teams of the Euroleague.
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    Senior Member Toja's Avatar
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    I think that the main problem of Pao in last years are the coaches and not Calathes. Just look at the day and night difference in Maccabi with Sfairopoulos and the years after the Blatt era .
    I am pretty sure that most of the top teams would be happy with Calathes as their point guard.

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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Fyi, I agree with all of those things. Calathes gets paid a lot, has glaring disadvantages but only 1 poorer team each year does better than us

    This is irrelevant to what we were talking about before. Just because we could manage our money better, it doesn't necessarily mean that we would do better or that we can compete with the rich (and good) teams of the Euroleague.
    I don't know exactly what the budgets were, but I know that Baskonia beat you 3:0 and Lokomotiv was in the same year in F4 and I don't even need to mention another green club or your "beloved" Oly, who I don't believe had bigger budget in 2016/17.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toja View Post
    I think that the main problem of Pao in last years are the coaches and not Calathes. Just look at the day and night difference in Maccabi with Sfairopoulos and the years after the Blatt era .
    I am pretty sure that most of the top teams would be happy with Calathes as their point guard.
    The biggest issue is the owner but lets not turn this thread into this mess again
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    Senior Member Toja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    The biggest issue is the owner but lets not turn this thread into this mess again
    I dont know the nuances of Pao as you but I can tell you that Maccabi fans also blamed the owners for the failers ( and imo they were partially right) until Sfairopoulos arrived and "suddenly" the team got into the rhythm and the team looked completly different with him compared to the last coaches.
    I don'd want to put the blame only on the coaches, I understand that most of the time there is more than that, but if your coach has the freedom to decide his roster and the owner is not the one that responsible for building the team chemistry, in my eyes it means that the coach has a big role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    Larkin proved how big player he is and every comparation with Wilbekin sounds ridiculous. The only player he could compare with is Mirotic, but Larkin is better and deserves better contract from Efes next season.
    I didn't know there was such a comparison, but then I remembered MTA won vs Efes, and I did not read game 27 comments. Fans like to make these claims.

    People who were here earlier know how much I blabbered about signing Wilbekin, and how disappointed I was when Efes didn't. I think he's a great player. BUT, in my opinion, Larkin and Wilbekin are in different levels at the moment.
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    I really dont know what to say about PAO... on the one hand Nick the quick is a limited player who seem to be out of fuel right now and nevertheless pao would do the right thing to keep Nick. Its really difficult to find a franchise player right now.

    In addition i would use a smaller rotation with a game changing player. Jimmer and Keith were old and from China emergency solutions. I mean if you always sign old players like Rese or Fredette you can never have a team that is used to itself. Success comes mostly with routine. And pao is doing well giving greek player heavy minutes but slowly but surely they have to find a new franchise player. Nick wont get younger anymore.

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