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Thread: Euroleague Regular Season: Week 26

  1. #21
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I don't believe many Pao fans are admitting that they have won all titles just because they had top budget. But that wasn't the reason for my post. Pao doesn't have 1/3 of Real's budget, what was your claim. L'equipe article was just incredibly wrong. Some numbers net other gross. Or do you really believe that Pao's gross salaries are under 10 mio?

    If I'm not mistaken Mr. Chacho was talking about last 3 years, not only this season. And loosing 10 in a row is kinda embarrassing for a club like Pao, no matter what circumstances might be. If they meet again in playoffs, good luck with explaining how Pao is 1-15 in last 5 seasons in playoffs because of the small budget.
    Thank you, Bob.

    And about being an irrelevante team, Montepaschi's Siena GM said once in a EL deseo back in the 2000's: "The best team you can get un the draw is Real Madrid. Money from a full court, legendary team and easy to beat".

    Thats to be an irrelevant team.

  2. #22
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    We are talking a lot about benches, but it’s much easier explanation. Put Campazzo and Tavares in Pao instead of Calathes-Papagiannis or in Fener instead of Sloukas-Vesely and both clubs would become top4 contenders instantly and Real would have regressed.
    That's a pure nonsense because Fener have been making the F4 since 2015 with Sloukas / Vesely duo.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    when we are talking about Real, people tend to forget how great are they with developing young players, the only big club in last years, where kids under 20 are having important role.
    previously known as Beno

  4. #24
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ou View Post
    That's a pure nonsense because Fener have been making the F4 since 2015 with Sloukas / Vesely duo.
    You meant to say, despite Vesely/Slokas duo? You can change Sloukas/Vesely with Bogdan/Udoh and they would have been in F4 this year too.

    p.s. I was talking about this years hypothetical situation.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 02-25-2020 at 04:26 PM.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    when we are talking about Real, people tend to forget how great are they with developing young players, the only big club in last years, where kids under 20 are having important role.
    And to find and build great players. Campazzo and Deck came from the argentinian league with 23 each, Tavares was lost in the G-League, Llull was signed from Manresa in the 2nd division, Thompkins from Nizhny, Taylor was kicked out from the NBA and only Maccabi showed a bit of interest aside of us.

    Sergio Rodríguez was a lost player before Laso came, Ayón was rejected by Barça, Nocioni was an explayer for everybody, KCRivers from DLeague.

    And then Mirotic, Doncic, Garuba, Nakic, Diez, Yusta, Barreiro, Cate.

    JCS and AH have done an amazing job this 9 years. Even our fans complains about the fact we only have signed 2 stars in that time (Rudy and Randolph).

  6. #26
    Senior Member kzav's Avatar
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    I think KillerBob was thinking about Doncic, Garuba, etc. Campazzo and Deck were 23, unknown perhaps, but still. SPanoulis, Lakovic, Diamantidis joined when they were 23, whereas players like Tsartsaris, Batiste shown whilst with the club and previously were nothing special.

    Fotsis joined when he was a teenager.
    "Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." —George Raveling

    "If I weren’t earning $3 million a year to dunk a basketball, most people on the street would run in the other direction if they saw me coming."—Charles Barkley

    "You are really funny thinking that you will be the ones to kick PANATHINAIKOS out of euroleague. We will do it ourselves." - saras (not the player )

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzav View Post
    I think KillerBob was thinking about Doncic, Garuba, etc. Campazzo and Deck were 23, unknown perhaps, but still. SPanoulis, Lakovic, Diamantidis joined when they were 23, whereas players like Tsartsaris, Batiste shown whilst with the club and previously were nothing special.

    Fotsis joined when he was a teenager.
    The easy thing is to buy stars. Betting for youngsters or for unknown players with potential is the difficult part. PAO did this in the 2000's, and you succeed.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Demetrios I. Soter's Avatar
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    Guys it was clear that we will get problems on 1 and 5 against the top teams, problems that are significant. but Pitino thought he could get more out of the players and didn't take action btw there were not players availbale.

    But what bothers me the most is the current loser attitude, according the motto, we can't win anyway, because the opponents have a lot more budget (there is truth in it, but with will and effort you can annoy such opponents and even win), with this attitude you don't even have to compete and I don't see enough drive on the part of Pitino , it seems he is accepting the defeat more or less.

    To the positions:
    At 5 Papagiannis is making progress, in any case Pana have to invest in his potential, it is right to let him play for up to 20 minutes. But we need reinforcements here, an athletic rim protector with good defensive attributes and enough height. then as a third option Bentil is not wrong, he has a strong body, no fear and can shoot from outside.

    For every position you always need player material with different attributes like in this example. Rim protector/Sizes/Body+Outside scoring

    The same applies to the guards Fredette and Rece, two small guards with poor defensive play, plus Papas with nearly no game on euroleague level at the moment.

    Either Rece or Fredette will go, because both need a teammate with particularly high defensive skills and sizes. If that is Calathes, he'll go limp at some point. In addition, Deshaun Thomas is also often a black hole defensively.

    For the Guards. Well, 1.7 million Fredette, he has not really justice this sum with his performance so far, he is obviously trying on the defensive end, but he is not creative enough on the offensive, he rarely manages to shake off his opponents. He would have to do more that we can say he is a good investment, now we can call it not more than solid. But the risk of his signing was knowing, Tyler Dorsey would probably be the more meaningful choice?

    Rece has already announced that he will probably retire.
    Willey is actually promising but has not worked in Pana System so far, Pitino tried to use him as a PF but he want more sizes.

    Calathes okay, he delivers but he needs support, as a leader he can never be the decisive with his shooting. He should also step a little back in the future, because it is too predictable for the opponents to win if you get Calathes to a bad mood. His current factor is too big for a team. Either he demands too much from himself or third parties expect what he cannot achieve. Honest words should be spoken here. He is a very good player but with clear weaknesses.

    For the coming season we urgently need a center (rim protector / rebounder) and a PG
    (size / defensive specialist)

    In addition, the following places will be vacant: Johnson, Willey, Rautins, Voujauskas and probably also Papas, unless we need someone to keep the seats warm for 800K.

    So there will be at least 5 rather 6 changes.
    With a little more cash and wise decisions, you can build something much better.
    Last edited by Demetrios I. Soter; 02-25-2020 at 07:42 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Yes, Pao should change something. Being treadmill team is just not acceptable for club like Pao.
    previously known as Beno

  10. #30
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    In order to be successful in Euroleague you need a very good one and a very good five, a secondary ball handler who can shoot. Normally you cant find a guy like larkin who can practically do everything on the court. Every player have deficiencies so you must find a roster that can minimize the weaknesses.

    In addition for a good decade you need to keep your coach and find a system. Not only find a roster and keep them but also plan for the future. The only team that has a perfect system is Real Madrid. They have a great scouting system and always buy the best prospects in Europe in young ages. Some go to the nba some stay and some return.

    PAOs youth system is not only restricted to Greece but it has also a bad youth system. This also goes for Fenerbahce. So implementing some guys from the youth in these teams is a miracle. The only thing left is find a good coach, keep him, buy some guys who could make the next step and try to make them better.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Picek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    when we are talking about Real, people tend to forget how great are they with developing young players, the only big club in last years, where kids under 20 are having important role.
    That same Real almost destroyed Bogdanovic career who signed for them as a kid.
    Now he is one of best european scorers in NBA.
    He is the first one that comes to my mind and surely he is not the only one.
    "Heja, heja Cibosi, hrabri kao vukovi,

    heja, heja cibosi, vodite nas k pobjedi. "

  12. #32
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picek View Post
    That same Real almost destroyed Bogdanovic career who signed for them as a kid.
    Now he is one of best european scorers in NBA.
    He is the first one that comes to my mind and surely he is not the only one.
    please show me another big club, where 18 years old kids get a chance to play in Euroleague? of course everyone doesn't succee, because of different reasons, but that is in normal jobs too.
    previously known as Beno

  13. #33
    Senior Member kzav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    please show me another big club, where 18 years old kids get a chance to play in Euroleague? of course everyone doesn't succee, because of different reasons, but that is in normal jobs too.
    Fotsis. Was key in the 1999-2000 final against Maccabi.
    "Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." —George Raveling

    "If I weren’t earning $3 million a year to dunk a basketball, most people on the street would run in the other direction if they saw me coming."—Charles Barkley

    "You are really funny thinking that you will be the ones to kick PANATHINAIKOS out of euroleague. We will do it ourselves." - saras (not the player )

  14. #34
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzav View Post
    Fotsis. Was key in the 1999-2000 final against Maccabi.
    I have in mind more recent times. Real is something totally unique in last 10 years. Just imagine, if home products Doncic and Mirotic stayed in Real.
    previously known as Beno

  15. #35
    Senior Member kzav's Avatar
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    There are several really, jankunas, papanikolaou did get serious playing time at top level in their teens.

    Yes I can't think of anyone from the previous couple of years, bitadze wasn't in a top team, but that may also be due to a lack of talent but also nba drawing the few players to USA. Papagiannis started young too.
    "Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." —George Raveling

    "If I weren’t earning $3 million a year to dunk a basketball, most people on the street would run in the other direction if they saw me coming."—Charles Barkley

    "You are really funny thinking that you will be the ones to kick PANATHINAIKOS out of euroleague. We will do it ourselves." - saras (not the player )

  16. #36
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    The problem is the NBA. 20 years ago entering the nba as european player was a big issue. Nowadays also with 15 men roster every scrub is sitting there. I dont want to be disrespectful but who is Vlatko Cancar, who is older Bertans to be in the nba?

    The consequence is no team except Real is investing in young guys because there is no meaning in it. You take the pain, implementing them and next season they are gone. Thats also for expample the reason why Korkmaz couldnt take play time with Efes.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzav View Post
    There are several really, jankunas, papanikolaou did get serious playing time at top level in their teens.

    Yes I can't think of anyone from the previous couple of years, bitadze wasn't in a top team, but that may also be due to a lack of talent but also nba drawing the few players to USA. Papagiannis started young too.
    Papanikolaou played almost nothing in Euroleague in his teens, Jankuntas 1 season, but that was 17 years ago. Playing with 17 years like Luka or Garuba is something totally else.
    previously known as Beno

  18. #38
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    The problem is the NBA. 20 years ago entering the nba as european player was a big issue. Nowadays also with 15 men roster every scrub is sitting there. I dont want to be disrespectful but who is Vlatko Cancar, who is older Bertans to be in the nba?

    The consequence is no team except Real is investing in young guys because there is no meaning in it. You take the pain, implementing them and next season they are gone. Thats also for expample the reason why Korkmaz couldnt take play time with Efes.
    Older Bertrans is considered like very good player in Nba. He will get massive pay check in next seasons. He will be unrestricted free agent this summer and will get 15 mio+ per year in next contract.
    previously known as Beno

  19. #39
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Not a single comment on Real:Pao? This says a lot about this years Pao team.
    Be honest Bob, you were just disappointed to login and not get the immediate opportunity to remind us all of your thoughts on Calathes!

    Quote Originally Posted by kzav View Post
    On the other hand, if money was the only factor in basketball or any other sport for the matter, then what's the point of competing anyway. We should award the trophies to the richest clubs in September and go home and watch Sex and the City boxset.
    This is an oddly specific and unexpectedly hilarious reference.
    Last edited by Jazz; 02-25-2020 at 10:44 PM.

  20. #40
    Senior Member kzav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    This is an oddly specific and unexpectedly hilarious reference.
    I've been forced to watch it... the wounds run deep
    "Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." —George Raveling

    "If I weren’t earning $3 million a year to dunk a basketball, most people on the street would run in the other direction if they saw me coming."—Charles Barkley

    "You are really funny thinking that you will be the ones to kick PANATHINAIKOS out of euroleague. We will do it ourselves." - saras (not the player )

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