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Thread: Euroleague Regular Season: Week 26

  1. #41
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Be honest Bob, you were just disappointed to login and not get the immediate opportunity to remind us all of your thoughts on Calathes! :P



    This is an oddly specific and unexpectedly hilarious reference.
    Not much to say, Calathes is undisputed leader of Pao in last 5 years.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzav View Post
    I've been forced to watch it... the wounds run deep
    Haha, thanks for the explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Not much to say, Calathes is undisputed leader of Pao in last 5 years.
    Ironically his outside shooting was good in the Real game.

    Btw... on the topic of young players- Dino Radoncic was just released by Murcia. He's still only 21. I wonder where his next team will be?

  3. #43
    Senior Member thegreekmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Not much to say, Calathes is undisputed leader of Pao in last 5 years.
    Funny thing, Calathes speaks greek worse than Jonas Maciulis for example
    Shows typical Murican ignorance
    I mean it is no problem that an American does not learn local language even after years of being there.
    But this is something else when you are kind of greek...

  4. #44
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Haha, thanks for the explanation.



    Ironically his outside shooting was good in the Real game.

    Btw... on the topic of young players- Dino Radoncic was just released by Murcia. He's still only 21. I wonder where his next team will be?
    Calathes will always have games like that, because opponents don't respect his shot and there all problems start and end. Good player but unlikely to lead Pao to something more than playoffs. Very difficult to build a team around him. Pao would need someone like Porzinigs to provide spacing that Nick can't. All classic bigs are bad fit with him. Imho is cheaper and easier to find new Pg, who can shoot.

    I have no idea about Radoncic. I never liked him.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 02-25-2020 at 11:47 PM.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I don't believe many Pao fans are admitting that they have won all titles just because they had top budget.
    I don't know even one Pao fan who believes that our top budget back then was not a main factor for Pao's success. There is no metaphysical explanation, top budget = top coach +top roster. The other factor was the stability of philosophy and core players. It's simple imo.
    Another strange comment coming from you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    But that wasn't the reason for my post. Pao doesn't have 1/3 of Real's budget, what was your claim. L'equipe article was just incredibly wrong. Some numbers net other gross. Or do you really believe that Pao's gross salaries are under 10 mio?
    Actually, I believe that Real bc's overall budget is more than triple but let's not derail the discussion and just say it's double. This assumption is changing everything (or nothing?)


    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    If I'm not mistaken Mr. Chacho was talking about last 3 years, not only this season. And loosing 10 in a row is kinda embarrassing for a club like Pao, no matter what circumstances might be. If they meet again in playoffs, good luck with explaining how Pao is 1-15 in last 5 seasons in playoffs because of the small budget.
    Have you ever read on this forum the long term prediction that Fener-Real-CSKA would be almost certainly in F4 every year? Have you read from the start of this season that Efes and Barca and perhaps Armani are the other contenders of the title?
    Quiz: What is the similarity among them?
    You can't hide behind your finger as we say in Greece.

    Speaking for myself, the embarrassing thing is -independently of the opponent - to watch my team underperform as they did vs Armani, Alba or Red Star and in a lesser degree vs Maccabi and Khimki. Since we don't know whether Pao can advance to top-8, what will happen in po is a luxury "problem".

  6. #46
    Senior Member Obina's Avatar
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    Real is the deepest roster in Europe. Of course they have huge budget, players are not playing for love. Just for example Trey Thompkins is getting serious role only after some injury, dude could be first PF in every team except Barca. Salah Mejri is 3rd C in rotation, what we are talking about. Klemen Prepelic is on loan because they don't need him at this moment, he can be important player for 90% teams. Of course Real has good coach and great chemistry also, it's not only about budget.

    About PAO, they have two really expensive players but rest of the team is quite average. But this is not excuse for failure every season - I mean that top8 is not enough for most of fans. Look at Zalgiris two seasons ago, they played F4 with a much smaller budget.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    @Adon

    I believe in Real’s financial numbers, the problem is that everything about Pao is just guessing, people confusing net and gross numbers. How can their gross salaries be under 10 mio, if only Calathes, Fredette and Pitino are 7 mio +?

    The biggest problem in this discussion is, you’re acting like we’re talking about this year only, but we’re not. I agree, no problem, if Pao doesn’t qualify in F4 this year, (though not qualifying for playoffs would be really bad.) But we cannot overlook that it is 5th year in a row that Pao very probably won’t qualify to F4 and not only that, in previous 4 playoffs series they have only won 1 match. Baskonia, who has beaten them 3:0, diidn’t have bigger budget. They had home court advantage against Fener and Real, Real being without Llull and Campazzo. This is pretty good roster btw, https://www.euroleague.net/competiti...asoncode=E2016. But ok no shame to lose against future champions. On the other hand it’s not the same loosing 2:3 or 0:3. 1:12 in 4 years is embarrassing. The same goes with series against Real. Yes Real is better, but 0:10 better? That shouldn’t happen to a club like Pao. Much smaller and poorer clubs are winning against Real now and then. You have Pitino, supposedly the best Pg in the league, fantastic shooter Fredette... before you had Calathes/James combo and you’re telling me that 0/10 is something totally normal?

    You can believe that budget is your main problem, I believe that building a team around historically bad shooting Pg is almost impossible. Why Spanoulis was so good? Because you could give him the ball in the clutch and even if he had bad night till then, he mostly brought you victory. It’s totally vice versa with Calathes, no matter how good he plays in first 3Qs, you can bet that he will fail in clutch, because he doesn’t have fundamentals to play when everything is on the line and D. is different and if you take a ball from his hands, it’s like playing 4 against 5, because he cannot play off ball.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 02-26-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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  8. #48
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    Predictions about Maccabi - Olympiacos?

    Maccabi the favorite according to odds but I actually don't have a good feeling here.
    Olympiacos showing up with a thin front line, might play small ball and we all know small ball can really explode if they get into a rhythm!

    About their two new players - probably going to be still very untrained, maybe even rusty (chinese league) but they are nevertheless unknowns...

    On the other hand, Maccabi getting Zoos and Acy back and Sfero might want to integrate them, even at the cost of sucking, just so they get a few minutes
    to come back into shape.

    Also a potential 'hunger' downturn after heroically beating Fener and Valencia.

    Really not sure if it's a "bunker". What do you guys see as the keys to the game?
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Demetrios I. Soter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DraxDomax View Post
    Predictions about Maccabi - Olympiacos?

    Maccabi the favorite according to odds but I actually don't have a good feeling here.
    Olympiacos showing up with a thin front line, might play small ball and we all know small ball can really explode if they get into a rhythm!

    About their two new players - probably going to be still very untrained, maybe even rusty (chinese league) but they are nevertheless unknowns...

    On the other hand, Maccabi getting Zoos and Acy back and Sfero might want to integrate them, even at the cost of sucking, just so they get a few minutes
    to come back into shape.

    Also a potential 'hunger' downturn after heroically beating Fener and Valencia.

    Really not sure if it's a "bunker". What do you guys see as the keys to the game?
    If I read it correctly, the ban ended on 24th and Oly can add in the new players. Would be a turnaround if if they get this win.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Demetrios I. Soter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Calathes will always have games like that, because opponents don't respect his shot and there all problems start and end. Good player but unlikely to lead Pao to something more than playoffs. Very difficult to build a team around him. Pao would need someone like Porzinigs to provide spacing that Nick can't. All classic bigs are bad fit with him. Imho is cheaper and easier to find new Pg, who can shoot.

    I have no idea about Radoncic. I never liked him.
    And Calathes takes huge care to get good income for his service, with 2.2 million, which in reverse means that the high expectations are totally justified.
    But I think it is unlikely that he will be replaced as good greek players are too rar and I can´t imagine we are going for a foreign team leader, the only one would be Sloukas.
    It is more likely to sign another solid PG beside Calathes.
    Here is a purely speculative proposal without detailed knowledge if this kind of trades would be possible:
    A option in case that Pana´s management have thoughts to not offer Calathes a new contract when he will be 32 years after next saison they could trade him this year, that could secures a good Center for examble Khimki´s Devin Booker (dont know his defesive level) as Khimki always looking for Calathes or Bayern´s Monroe, as Bayern needs an experienced PG leader that could be a more value trade for all and then going for Sloukas if available or a foreign player PG.
    That would be a trade which cold solve many problems. But in general, such deals are rarely made plus I dont think Calathes will go, just possible if he will play individually pure playoffs again or if Pana dont reach the top 8 and even then I dont believe on it.

  11. #51
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DraxDomax View Post
    I think everyone's looking to avoid Real.
    The finals will be Real-Efes and I think Real's system will have by then figured out the Larkin problem.
    This. Real is the most loaded team, the roster's flexibility is great, and they're coached by a very smart guy.

    Some guys say Ataman kept Pleiss this year only because of a probable Real match-up. To force Tavares out of the paint by mid-range shots, to be specific. Now, this makes sense but we haven't seen it much in action. the first game they had a combined grand total of 0 points. The 2nd game was a bit more indicative, with 5/7 fg from Pleiss, and Tavares still effective with blocks and rebounds, but was from scary.

    Now, if this turns out to be true and effective at the end of the year, I think Efes should erect Ataman's statue.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    This. Real is the most loaded team, the roster's flexibility is great, and they're coached by a very smart guy.

    Some guys say Ataman kept Pleiss this year only because of a probable Real match-up. To force Tavares out of the paint by mid-range shots, to be specific. Now, this makes sense but we haven't seen it much in action. the first game they had a combined grand total of 0 points. The 2nd game was a bit more indicative, with 5/7 fg from Pleiss, and Tavares still effective with blocks and rebounds, but was from scary.

    Now, if this turns out to be true and effective at the end of the year, I think Efes should erect Ataman's statue.
    Laso will just leave Pleiss to shoot, like he did in Belgrade with Melli. Better he than Larkin. There's only one player, which is problematic for Real.
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  13. #53
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    About Radoncic, Murcia seems to be a bad place for youngsters. Bojan Bogdanovic was loaned there and he almost destroys his career (of course, that happened with other management). Goran Dragic also was there, and the loan for Baskonia didnt worked, too.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Deschain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Laso will just leave Pleiss to shoot, like he did in Belgrade with Melli. Better he than Larkin. There's only one player, which is problematic for Real.
    I think Laso should be worried about Singleton at 5 rather than Pleiss.
    poof

  15. #55
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deschain View Post
    I think Laso should be worried about Singleton at 5 rather than Pleiss.
    Tavares will camp under the rim no matter what. If Efes is able to beat Real from perimeter, so be it.
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  16. #56
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    Real has to worry one guy but Efes doesnt need to be worried at all. Larkin is beyond the Euroleague, just CSKA is a bit troublesome because of the bigs that can stay in front of short guys but in one game everything can happen.

  17. #57
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    Fener lost 2 years ago because Real successfully blocked the forward areas and forced fener to play from the top. With the lack of rebounding Fener was caught. The main point was the two fouls within one minute of Vesely.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Real has to worry one guy but Efes doesnt need to be worried at all. Larkin is beyond the Euroleague, just CSKA is a bit troublesome because of the bigs that can stay in front of short guys but in one game everything can happen.
    Yes Efes and Larkin have won everything in last years.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 02-26-2020 at 05:51 PM.
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  19. #59
    Senior Member radallo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Laso will just leave Pleiss to shoot, like he did in Belgrade with Melli. Better he than Larkin. There's only one player, which is problematic for Real.
    Kruno? I think Taylor can be a good stopper
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  20. #60
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radallo View Post
    Kruno? I think Taylor can be a good stopper
    On the paper, Taylor is a great fit for Micic, and Campazzo for Larkin. The problem is to sacrifice Campazzo on defense. Then, I would try Taylor on Larkin and Rudy (or Causeur) on Micic.

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