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  • I think ironically Şengün is a perfect big for Euroleague - his only weakness as it seems are his quickness (legs) and his arms not being long enough to defend NBA bigs consistently. Of course he is too good to stay in Europe, he will be a lottery pick probably, but to compensate for lack of agility the bigs must be extremely skilled in NBA or they can't stay on the court. This means Şengün needs a reliable outside shot, as well as keep being a good rebounder and passer
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    • Hazer just needs to gain some muscles and he will be ok. Technics and character are present, even shooting will be ok because his mechanics is quite good.

      I am not such big optimist about Sengun. With 18y he must already have feeling for situations around basket. It's not shooting problem but head.

      He is undersized and the only way for him is to start shooting instead of endless trying to provoke foul. If he continues this way he will be just one more offensive jumper and nothing more. As I see he isn't such awful shooter but he must use that in the game. It's the only way

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      • Originally posted by vivo View Post
        I think ironically Şengün is a perfect big for Euroleague - his only weakness as it seems are his quickness (legs) and his arms not being long enough to defend NBA bigs consistently. Of course he is too good to stay in Europe, he will be a lottery pick probably, but to compensate for lack of agility the bigs must be extremely skilled in NBA or they can't stay on the court. This means Şengün needs a reliable outside shot, as well as keep being a good rebounder and passer
        Absolutely correct. He must evolve to a shooting big. He has the touch to make at least the open ones. I dont have any concerns about passing and rebounding. He just needs to get stronger, especially his legs. Thats why i am against using him in youth tournaments anymore. He has more or less the same problems as Domantas Sabonis.

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        • Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
          When you think about, we will have three FIBA qualification tournaments at home in a row Fiba gave us a slack after these horrible refs in WC. I understand Demnark's coach complains. To be honest, I still can't forgive Maskoliunas that he with his attitude put Lithuania under all this and we survived by a pure chance. I would put him aside already if I could.
          Maskoliunas did nothing extraordinary, that's true, even tho his move with going to small ball changed the course of the game and I was sceptical about it when saw it. But not only coach is to blame for this, it was not him who made dumb fouls in 2+1 situations or with Danes shooting 3s, left rivals open or missed easy shots. Let's just realize that our B unit is far away from A team and especially it was seen how they dealt with that psychologically. They are not used to such games. Thnx bball gods that vets stepped up and saved us from this big shame, as at one point 1993 Poland already was popping into my memory
          Talking about FIBA. FIBA and guilt can't come into one sentence. After Adomaitis press-conference it was more likely that they will give us nothing at all, but FIBA is emotionless greedy bastards. Simply there were not much options to choose from during these windows and our federation is known for great organizational skills, so thnx to them and sponsors, cause it was basically money thrown away holding an even without fans. Pretty much the case with ~3mln for OQT all the federations had to pay. FIBA is all about money, but if some Euroleague doesn't hide it, FIBA still tries to prove us that all they does is for the love of the game.... I bet that in next interview their bosses will come out with the same crap like it was very another successful qualifiers and it works great.

          Talking as a whole, as yesterday results proved even France was basically one shot away from elimination, it was enough for them to lose vs Montenegro and that only loss vs Germany would have cost them Eurobasket, a Germany which played for nothing all qualifiers. France, Serbia, Lithuania, Turkey escaped, Latvia didn't. Montenegro felt short without Dubljevic and Vucevic. I'm a bit sad for Sweden too. I liked them more than Netherlands and felt that they more potential for Eurobasket, but also it was their "problem" that all their best 3 players plays in Euroleague...

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          • Another step forward by the upcoming generation, its been pretty interesting to follow their progress.

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            • Mindozas, I think greediness is universal norm of most organizations. The same EL wasn't flexible at all in searching for a decent solution. Imagine EL and FIBA agreed on one week consensus and we would see completely different FIBA qualification. Would that ruin EL season? I don't think so, but money and egos speak there as the factor I'm guessing. On other hand, I'm silently happy about these windows. I'm happy how a kid Jokubaitis, who at that time didn't even had a role in EL, lead us for a win against Czech Rep. I'm happy for such young and upcoming NTs as Estonia who not only made it which is a huge thing for them, but might a strong team in the mid of 20s. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if Serbia, France, Spain, Lithuania always share top spots? It's good that sometimes we see some underdogs going high and some of teams will do that this decade as well.
              LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

              Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
              Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
              Buzelis, Lelevicius
              Murauskas, Sirvydis
              Tubelis, Krivas

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              • Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                Mindozas, I think greediness is universal norm of most organizations. The same EL wasn't flexible at all in searching for a decent solution. Imagine EL and FIBA agreed on one week consensus and we would see completely different FIBA qualification. Would that ruin EL season? I don't think so, but money and egos speak there as the factor I'm guessing. On other hand, I'm silently happy about these windows. I'm happy how a kid Jokubaitis, who at that time didn't even had a role in EL, lead us for a win against Czech Rep. I'm happy for such young and upcoming NTs as Estonia who not only made it which is a huge thing for them, but might a strong team in the mid of 20s. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if Serbia, France, Spain, Lithuania always share top spots? It's good that sometimes we see some underdogs going high and some of teams will do that this decade as well.
                Started to work for FIBA? Man, come on, "boring" as an argument? Tell it to Latvian bball fans now. They are "bored" since 2017 and for sure now will be bored for another 2 years at least, when their golden generation is balling around the world. That's only one example, we had others too. And that's cause someone was not bored, but needed to do smth about promotion of World Cup and fill own pockets with more money. EL is no saints, far from that, but both organizations worked side by side for years under the same system, but it was FIBA which made this havoc now and I wrote the reason why. It's not promotion of sports, it's purely money when their darling World Champ started to decline. They not only created this madness with qualifiers, but killed Eurobasket for the sake of it.
                This system goes against every principle of sports. You must have a chance to field your best players and compete with best team and this way decide what you worth, where you stand right now in bball ladder. That's what I'm interested in, I don't want some fake achievements. It doesn't matter if one NT will dominate for years, decades, centuries. It's sports, it must work this way. You must beat the best on court. Otherwise we can go again to banning NBA pros cause USA dominates Olympics, then go and ban over 190cm players like it was done 100 years ago, cause some countries can't find bigs (it even was done to some extent with naturalizations). This not the basketball I want to see and game I love

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                • Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                  Mindozas, I think greediness is universal norm of most organizations. The same EL wasn't flexible at all in searching for a decent solution. Imagine EL and FIBA agreed on one week consensus and we would see completely different FIBA qualification. Would that ruin EL season? I don't think so, but money and egos speak there as the factor I'm guessing. On other hand, I'm silently happy about these windows. I'm happy how a kid Jokubaitis, who at that time didn't even had a role in EL, lead us for a win against Czech Rep. I'm happy for such young and upcoming NTs as Estonia who not only made it which is a huge thing for them, but might a strong team in the mid of 20s. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if Serbia, France, Spain, Lithuania always share top spots? It's good that sometimes we see some underdogs going high and some of teams will do that this decade as well.
                  This is totally wrong perception in my eyes, my friend. Of course other countries than Top 5 in Europe deserve to make good results - but they have to earn it. A great quote from genius Marin Sedlacek during Serbia - Georgia game a few days ago as co-commentator fits in very well here - "In basketball it's like in real life - you get opportunities and it's very important to recognize them and use them properly".

                  I am also bored by watching FIFA World Cup and Euro and consider it refreshing that a team like Croatia or Portugal go to the end and that it's not always France, Spain, Germany, Brazil but if you ask me to make qualifiers with Serbian A team and France C team I wouldn't be happy either, if we beat them.

                  The main problem of this format is, like Mindozas wrote, ego and stubborness of both FIBA and EL. A minimal adaption would have helped everybody. I buy your argument that young players get the chance but generally history shows, at least in some quality countries, that worst thing that you can do is give a young player a preference in treatment. It weakens him in long terms. Quality always prevails. Sometimes it takes longer, and it shows up after taking some branches, but it prevails.

                  This qualifiers have been horrible and had no quality (most important fact to me).

                  Comment


                  • There are more flipsides we have to consider. Some A teams will not perform according to full potential during the tournaments. This is because the players haven't played together for possibly years. At the end of the day basketball is a team sport. Likewise, some of the teams which qualified will play with the same teams, because they were playing with full potential.

                    Solely from a basketball perspective, it would be great to see A class teams play their best basketball.

                    Everyone agrees that seeing national teams play official games during she season, at home, is great for the game. This problem between FIBA and EL has to be solved. It's bad for basketball. We need to respect the national teams. If a solution can't be found, the presidents of the EL and FIBA have to be replaced. Especially the EL.

                    Perhaps we, as fans, can send an open letter to Bertomeu and FIBA. Asking for a solution. Some 10.000 autographs will do.
                    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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                    • Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                      There are more flipsides we have to consider. Some A teams will not perform according to full potential during the tournaments. This is because the players haven't played together for possibly years. At the end of the day basketball is a team sport. Likewise, some of the teams which qualified will play with the same teams, because they were playing with full potential.

                      Solely from a basketball perspective, it would be great to see A class teams play their best basketball.

                      Everyone agrees that seeing national teams play official games during she season, at home, is great for the game. This problem between FIBA and EL has to be solved. It's bad for basketball. We need to respect the national teams. If a solution can't be found, the presidents of the EL and FIBA have to be replaced. Especially the EL.

                      Perhaps we, as fans, can send an open letter to Bertomeu and FIBA. Asking for a solution. Some 10.000 autographs will do.
                      I'm afraid even 100k won't help. Federations once tried to fight FIBA, nothing worked. What they achieved that FIBA stopped blackmailing them with suspensions. Too much money on stake to reconsider their decisions. It's impossible to kick Bertomeu from his post, the same is with FIBA. Their leaders were changing, but absolutely nothing changed. It's like mythical Hydra, you might cut one head, but always new one grows up and the story continues. It seems like only a close circle of trustworthy people are allowed to join. Rotten organization. I literally don't know what should happen for things to change. We could live with previous system more or less, not perfect, however best players had a chance to join for main tournaments who served as qualies, but with current one it's basically impossible to get best players for windows, even if by some miracle EL would let players out, NBA will never allow that and there're many players playing there who could contribute big time for their respective NTs and change face of it or as you say glue connections with teammates. Let alone Europe, imagine some Cameroon with Siakam and Embiid. Also FIBA tends to close their eyes on that, they talks how windows help to popularize bball in smaller nations and that's the main purpose of it, but stay silent about what kind of impact NBA players could do for their NTs, cause it simply does not suit their position. So this windows system was doomed ever since it was created. I don't see any solution for now

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
                        This is totally wrong perception in my eyes, my friend. Of course other countries than Top 5 in Europe deserve to make good results - but they have to earn it. A great quote from genius Marin Sedlacek during Serbia - Georgia game a few days ago as co-commentator fits in very well here - "In basketball it's like in real life - you get opportunities and it's very important to recognize them and use them properly".

                        I am also bored by watching FIFA World Cup and Euro and consider it refreshing that a team like Croatia or Portugal go to the end and that it's not always France, Spain, Germany, Brazil but if you ask me to make qualifiers with Serbian A team and France C team I wouldn't be happy either, if we beat them.

                        The main problem of this format is, like Mindozas wrote, ego and stubborness of both FIBA and EL. A minimal adaption would have helped everybody. I buy your argument that young players get the chance but generally history shows, at least in some quality countries, that worst thing that you can do is give a young player a preference in treatment. It weakens him in long terms. Quality always prevails. Sometimes it takes longer, and it shows up after taking some branches, but it prevails.

                        This qualifiers have been horrible and had no quality (most important fact to me).
                        You tend to miss the fact that weaker teams may also be forced to play without their leaders. And since their pool of quality players is significantly smaller it sometimes may hit them even harder than it would hit heavy-weight basketball countries.

                        Also, the question should not only be about Euroleague or NBA players, but also NCAA players. Just to bring you an example - while Maik Kotsar was plying his trade in NCAA, Estonia had to play several qualifiers without its main center as he could participate only in selected matches. Now we have Kerr Kriisa at Arizona and Matthias Tass at St Mary's in similar situations and it will be quite difficult to get them to the national team.

                        The smaller teams also have their problems. It is rather unfair to think that they earn their results with no merits and can always play with their A-teams.

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                        • That's a fair point. The more important it is to bring the truth on the court by playing A players. I think a fair solution to all countries like in every other normal sports federation for international competition.

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                          • The problems of those windows are obvious and known. The quality of the games are bad, some countries are disadvantaged and there are big problems in terms of losing important bb countries on the way but there are also advantages like making smaller countries more important and making the basketball community bigger.

                            I am ok with the current status because it gives new player a chance to be integrated to the team. Look at the young guys who raised their head. Sengün, Spagnolo, Petrusev, Prkacin, van der vuurst etc. Europe needs to produce better guys, more than the NBA can ever take.

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                            • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
                              The problems of those windows are obvious and known. The quality of the games are bad, some countries are disadvantaged and there are big problems in terms of losing important bb countries on the way but there are also advantages like making smaller countries more important and making the basketball community bigger.

                              I am ok with the current status because it gives new player a chance to be integrated to the team. Look at the young guys who raised their head. Sengün, Spagnolo, Petrusev, Prkacin, van der vuurst etc. Europe needs to produce better guys, more than the NBA can ever take.
                              First part of your post is much more important than second, cause we are talking exactly about qualifiers, not some talent or NT camp, where youth can get their chances. Imagine how much some team losses for not being able to play on biggest scene. How much Latvia is losing being out of it for 6 years now at least. Purpose for qualifiers must be to select the best teams for one or other tournament, simple as that. It's ok that we might look for some positives in this mess, we simply have nothing left to choose from. But it's not the way things should work generally

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                              • I haven't written anything on this boards for a long time (terrible personal hardships is the cause) but here I finally want to add my own 5 cents.

                                First of all, I'm not a fan of FIBA and FIBA Europe. Not at all. But here I think they are doing something right. So, in order to be more precise, I shall illustrate my point with a reasonable analogy.

                                What is the most popular sports in Europe (and, most probably, on the global scale also)? It's (association) football. Basketball is only distant second.

                                So imagine the following scenario. The US commercial company, let's say, Disney Sports announces a partnership with a private company ChampiLeague Commercial Assets (which has extremely shady structure and way of doing business) in order to create two tournaments. The main one is a closed league of 18 pre-selected teams (among them there are European "grands" like Real Madrid, Barca, MU, ManCity, Chelsea, Bayern, Milano, Inter and some others, plus some randomly selected representatives of commercially "promising" markets like some team from Switzerland - they' have much money down there in their banks - and some team from Norway - because they have damn oil, so they can invest some resourses into football) organized as a round-robin tournament. It is named El Al Israel Airlines ChampiLeague. The only team which can earn the right to play in this tournament on a sportive principle is a winner (and sometimes also finalist, but this depends on the level of bribery and behing-the-doors deals) of the second Disney-owned tournament, which is named Oreo EuroTourno.

                                Which countries will be represented in Oreo EuroTourno and which teams will represent each country is a work of mystery and ultimately it is completely up to ChampiLeague Commercial Assets main swindler Bordi Jerkomeu's free will. So a team can finish 11th in Italian Serie A but still it can be given a place at Oreo EuroTourno if it suits Bordi and his gang of crooks (for example if the said team bribes really generously).

                                UEFA is mad at it and starts to run its own tournament, Football Euroleague, for which participation is determined on a sportive basis (though many top places finishers from elite national leagues choose to play in either El Al Israel Airlines ChampiLeague - which holds the main prestige due to best teamsparticipating in it - or Oreo EuroTourno).

                                And then UEFA adds new windows for national teams (guess what, only recently they did just that with UEFA Nations League) during the regular season. And participation in some prestigious UEFA/FIFA tournament is determined by results of the games played during these windows. Every single one national league respects this addition and UEFA-run Football EuroLeague does this also. But Jerkomeu, his Murican masters and his gang of slime says "fuck it all, my precious retardoleagues - which are El Al Israel Airlines ChampiLeague and Oreo EuroTourno - won't stop for this UEFA bullshit; why should I give two week-long pauses during the season and end my tournos two weeks later when I, sure as fuck, can just screw these UEFA bastards and I don't give a damn about national teams, millions of their fans and stuff like that".

                                Then, some similar scenario happens, for example, Spain plays without their Real+Barca+English teams stars and qualifies with some problems, while Croatia, playing without Modric, Kovacevic, Perisic, Brozovic and Rebic, doesn't qualify at all.

                                What would be the most sensible and logical reaction from football fans? The same fans which hate FIFA/EUFA guts. "Fuck you, Jerkomeu the bastard, and fuck your overseas handlers, you screwed some of the potentially promising teams and the whole process of qualifying with your vile vendetta versus UEFA when the latter finally proposed quite a reasonable system"? Or "fuck greedy FIFA, why can't they bend over to Bordi Jerkomeu and his American-owned cookie airlines leagues and have all the qualies during August and early September, before the start of the club season"? Which kind of reaction makes more sense?

                                For me, it's a no-brainer that qualies during the season is a great idea. And the whole "but NBA won't pause for it" argument makes little sense since the only non-US international team which is something totally different without their NBAers is Canada, and even non-NBA Canada is definitely a team which is head and shoulders above their FIBA America competitors - aside from Argentina - due to the strength and depth of Canadian Europe-based player selection. While Cameroon example... shit, with Siakam and Embiid they are the same low-level team with some NBA egos thrown into for a good measure, look at Italy - once they brought their three legit NBA stars in Bargnani, Bellinelli and Gallinari they played worse than without them (and Italy is no Cameroon). Moreover, we have examples of "lonestar" NBAers playing for their NTs - for example, Capela played for Switzerland during some qualies, while Markkanen played for Suomi directly before his 15+ppg debut NBA season. So the question is: were these teams miraculously transformed into European powerhouses? Not to say that there are many examples when NBAers won't even make their national teams final rosters if we are only to judge their objective worth and usefulness - like, ok, I got that Serbia will potentially be a (much) better with Bogdan and Nikola in its ranks, but does it really need some retards like Bjelica or washed up Bobi... gimme a break.

                                The lion's share of guilt why we saw so many absences of top players during these qualies is on Bertomeu and his American puppet-masters. Why these sickos can't pause their disgusting closed format competitions (which fewer and fewer people give any fuck about) twice for a week and finishing it not on May 30th but on some June 12th? Because they are vile, disgraceful crooks who wish only the worst to European basketball tradition, opting for main European club competition to gradually transform into some sort of Chinese Basketball Association analogue.
                                2013/2014 IBN Euroleague Prediction Game Winner

                                Thrash 'till Death!

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