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Thread: Euroleague regular season: Week 18

  1. #201
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Bugrahan Tuncer is also playing in the Turkish national team as a back up guard, so Efes doesn't need any more guards, or they should send Tuncer if they are going to buy someone so Tuncer can take more minutes in another team.

    It's just Ataman's classic guard based system, he was also doing the same with Arroyo / Sinan Guler back in the time, he uses them a lot, so they can always keep their rhythm on scoring, it wouldn't change anything if you buy another guard Larkin / Micic will still play 35 minutes per game.
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  2. #202
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Tuncer may mot take many minutes right now in Euroleague but he can give you for sure 10 good minutes against middle class teams and he is more than enough for BSL. He can run great pick and roll games, he is a great passer (even if some of the passes are reckless which causes turnovers), he can shoot the three. I dont see any problems with him offensively. Defensively he is a huge problem though. Nevertheless he will get his chance. Someone who makes a good USA game can handle any game.

    Kruno is right now in his prime. As you mentioned he is a great p&r player and can take over the second play maker role easily.

    I dont see any problems with the guard rotation as long as there is no injury of micic or larkin.
    He was DNP in about 60% of the games so far and he averages like what, 1 minute per game? Can't be considered a rotation player
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Tuncer may mot take many minutes right now in Euroleague but he can give you for sure 10 good minutes against middle class teams and he is more than enough for BSL. He can run great pick and roll games, he is a great passer (even if some of the passes are reckless which causes turnovers), he can shoot the three. I dont see any problems with him offensively. Defensively he is a huge problem though. Nevertheless he will get his chance. Someone who makes a good USA game can handle any game.

    Kruno is right now in his prime. As you mentioned he is a great p&r player and can take over the second play maker role easily.

    I dont see any problems with the guard rotation as long as there is no injury of micic or larkin.
    It's one thing that Kruno can be a secondary option in creating out of mostly central high pick and rolls the other thing is if you want to rely on this during play-offs and Final4. Wouldn't be so sure if this is a good option. He is everything but in his prime. He plays very well but his prime is about 6-7 years ago when he played in Russia and was maybe one of the 3 best players in Europe at his position.

    It's just my opinion but I think this could be the missing piece at the end. On the other hand, if Beaubois steps up and plays in April and May on high level this discussion is worthless and Ataman did everything right.

    For Tuncer: I have a completely different opinion, in my eyes he has no Euroleague quality and the chance that he will play in the play offs more than 1min. per game to come in and make some foul is quite small.

  4. #204
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    It's one thing that Kruno can be a secondary option in creating out of mostly central high pick and rolls the other thing is if you want to rely on this during play-offs and Final4. Wouldn't be so sure if this is a good option. He is everything but in his prime. He plays very well but his prime is about 6-7 years ago when he played in Russia and was maybe one of the 3 best players in Europe at his position.
    He is in his second prime and nobody is giving him heavy minutes as ball handler. His current role is enough for him, no need for more.

    It's just my opinion but I think this could be the missing piece at the end. On the other hand, if Beaubois steps up and plays in April and May on high level this discussion is worthless and Ataman did everything right.
    This is just the case when Larkin or Micic get injured. There is no problem giving them 25 minutes per game. The goal is just taking unnecessary burden of them. Beaubois is not a creator he is a finisher. You can let him bring the ball at most but this can also be taken over by balbay but no need to discuss he wont be able to take this role. The main creators are Micic and Tuncer, Micic is important for Larkin to step aside time to time and let Micic do. The role of the main creator can only be taken over by Tuncer except micic or larkin.

    For Tuncer: I have a completely different opinion, in my eyes he has no Euroleague quality and the chance that he will play in the play offs more than 1min. per game to come in and make some foul is quite small.
    It depends on the opponent. If efes plays against zvezda in the playoffs i would give him with a light heart 10-15 minutes per game. If its pao it might be dangerous due to his recklessness and defensive weaknesses. Of course you need a linup where can you hide him a little bit on the defensive end.

    The main issue is to lighten Larkin until the final as much as possible. I dont see big problems if there is no injury. I would manage it very well i you gave me the team right now. I dont think that Ataman will make a crucial mistake like ZOC did last season

    He rested Singleton, Larkin, Kruno in BSL yesterday and Micic is injured right now. The main creator was Tuncer and he did a very good job

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    This post doesn't fit reality bro - you are saying he can 10-15min easily against zvezda (I disagree, but okay, I buy that one) - but we are not speaking about zvezda. We are speaking about Championship games. He won't take 1. That's the main problem. And I don't think that Micic and Larkin will take 25 but as in every big game 30+ (Micic usually 35-38). And that's the crucial fact where they will have problems against Real and Barca in a 2-day rhythm.

  6. #206
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    I dont think that Ataman will make a crucial mistake like ZOC did last season
    Even our top guys, i.e. Sloukas, Melli, Vesely etc. averaged about 26 minutes last season (I checked), and they were regularly rested in the BSL in a rotating manner. If you say that 26 minutes twice a week is too much for a professional player...

    Our injuries last season were due to 1) Bad luck 2) Our shitty medical staff, which was changed during the summer.

    On the other hand, Efes was extremely lucky in terms of injury last season, this season a bit worse but still good (Dunston, Moerman). They definitely need healthy Larkin, Micic, and Dunston in playoffs and F4 - other players are replaceable imho.
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  7. #207
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    This post doesn't fit reality bro - you are saying he can 10-15min easily against zvezda (I disagree, but okay, I buy that one) - but we are not speaking about zvezda. We are speaking about Championship games. He won't take 1. That's the main problem. And I don't think that Micic and Larkin will take 25 but as in every big game 30+ (Micic usually 35-38). And that's the crucial fact where they will have problems against Real and Barca in a 2-day rhythm.
    We discovered Sanli, who had played only 1 min until then, after Dunston's injury. He had played 3mpg in 9 games last year. Now he's a solid contributor.

    Frankly, I don't see the same light in Tuncer, he actually pisses me off with his Teodosic-esque passes that flies to the spectators, but you never know. I hope we won't have to find out. He can be quite useful in TBL, however, can even play 35mpg.
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    Can it be that I cant express myself properly? I was just talking about the playoff games. I am saying

    1. use him during the playoffs 10-15 minutes beside or instead of Larkin or Micic against a weaker team to avoid bottle necks
    2. I wouldnt use him myself during F4 games. Larkin must just be rested actively on the court or you have such a good day that you can afford to rest him with Micic playing more or divide the responsibility to Beaubois, Micic, Símon and Larkin. Thats why it is important to have a weaker opponent than Barca or RM.

    There is no problem during the season. You can let play Larkin for 30+ its just 1 game in a week.

    You can tell me that Tuncer cant give you 10-15 min in a league where Rautins and Stimac are playing. I watched this guy 500 times I know what he is capable of.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    Even our top guys, i.e. Sloukas, Melli, Vesely etc. averaged about 26 minutes last season (I checked), and they were regularly rested in the BSL in a rotating manner. If you say that 26 minutes twice a week is too much for a professional player...

    Our injuries last season were due to 1) Bad luck 2) Our shitty medical staff, which was changed during the summer.

    On the other hand, Efes was extremely lucky in terms of injury last season, this season a bit worse but still good (Dunston, Moerman). They definitely need healthy Larkin, Micic, and Dunston in playoffs and F4 - other players are replaceable imho.
    I havent checked the stats, I watched all BSL games as always (I know I am a bb maniac ) and i can guarantee you that Datomes injury is just caused of overusing him on the court. ZOC himself admitted it so there is no need to find any arguments.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Can it be that I cant express myself properly? I was just talking about the playoff games. I am saying

    1. use him during the playoffs 10-15 minutes beside or instead of Larkin or Micic against a weaker team to avoid bottle necks
    2. I wouldnt use him myself during F4 games. Larkin must just be rested actively on the court or you have such a good day that you can afford to rest him with Micic playing more or divide the responsibility to Beaubois, Micic, Símon and Larkin. Thats why it is important to have a weaker opponent than Barca or RM.

    There is no problem during the season. You can let play Larkin for 30+ its just 1 game in a week.

    You can tell me that Tuncer cant give you 10-15 min in a league where Rautins and Stimac are playing. I watched this guy 500 times I know what he is capable of.
    We are talking about two different topics. You are talking about playoffs against a team where Efes is much stronger if I got your right. That's why you keep pushing your 15min. of Tuncer. Okay. I will buy this, too, you are that much confident for him that there must be something. Maybe I simply watched the wrong games.

    I am talking about crucial games (that's where the discussion started) where Efes will win or lose the title. I still stay with my point that with this guard rotations it will be a huge risk to go in F4 if just one of them underperformans. Not so speak about injuries. For me it's not understandable that a team with that much quality could run up just because of a deal worth 200K that could secure them a solid 15min. from the bench in important games that are as important as the minutes played by their stars.

  11. #211
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    Yeah it was a misunderstanding. I wouldnt let Tuncer play during final four games of course. For me is the only premise to win the title Larkin performing well in the final game. Thats why the first seed is so important. Get a more beatable team in the playoffs, scatter the minutes well and get the fourth of the league in the first f4 game.

    Performances below a certain point must be expected anytime but i am confident that Efes can endure all lows of any player except Larkin as long as its only one guy in the short rotation.

    My biggest concern was the absence of Micic. He had the meaning like Lebron in this team. He was like the sun for the planets, was organizing everything on the court doing it right now as well and the main question was: can Efes organize itself without Micic and I must say to a certain extend yes. Thanks to the outstanding performance of Kruno the team was fluent as hell also without him.

    The dependency changed slowly after the PAO game. Micic underperformed heavily in this game, he forced too much and we all know the result.

    But i am happy that we found out our points at last.

  12. #212
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevfik1907 View Post
    It's just Ataman's classic guard based system, he was also doing the same with Arroyo / Sinan Guler back in the time, he uses them a lot, so they can always keep their rhythm on scoring, it wouldn't change anything if you buy another guard Larkin / Micic will still play 35 minutes per game.
    Yes but the cost of this was not getting to see more Ender Arslan and Suscan Piskin.

  13. #213
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    On the other hand, Efes was extremely lucky in terms of injury last season, this season a bit worse but still good (Dunston, Moerman). They definitely need healthy Larkin, Micic, and Dunston in playoffs and F4 - other players are replaceable imho.
    They just need healthy Larkin imo. All others are replaceable

  14. #214
    Senior Member Deschain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    This is the first season Sloukas has the main role at pg. He shared minutes with Dixon and Wanamaker(one season).
    He didn't play like this in Wanamaker year. I remember with Sloukas on the court we had much better ball movement then with Wana in charge as pg.

    Now it's him what Wanamaker was that season. He slows us down, he rapes the ball, he fucks our nerves. I don't think he is bad player but he is not great either. He can't be leader for sure.

    Obradovic can solve that with limiting his role and giving more space to Westerman and Dixon. I think he will do that very soon.
    I think what he percieves as being the leader is being in the possession of the ball as much as possible.
    To me at least, it's obvious that one of the problems in the team is this.
    I always thought Vesely was the leader of the team both on court and in the spiritual realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    Moerman played his role last season more or less good. But he isn't player for the biggest games which is proved last F4.
    Lucky for Efes they have two PFs with great character and Ataman will make big mistake if try to force Moerman over them.

    Beaubois could better just against mediocre teams. Again big mistake of Ataman because he should use Anderson much more from the bench then Beaubois.
    I think it's always good to have a healthy Moerman in the team. Singleton might be the player you want. He brings intensity and seems satisfied with his role.
    There'll be many possibilities with Peters, Moerman and Singleton. Efes is quite versatile this year.

    Beaubois always seemed to be the weakest link in the team to me and he is possibly the most inconsistent as well.
    I agree with you on Anderson. Although he seems to have grown a belly, he can always provide something when he plays. With Beaubois you can never know if actually shows up that day.

    I just hope that Micic doesn't succumb to the Sloukas sickness when he returns from his injury.
    poof

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