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Thread: Euroleague regular season: Week 17

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GatorsGators View Post
    Lmao at calling Diba Maccabi's "best and only penetrator." Of all of Maccabi's guards (Wilbekin, Wolters, Diba, and Dorsey), Diba (53%2fg) is the most reliant on the 3-ball and the worst at creating 2-point shots in the paint for himself and others. Look at his career assist numbers.

    Jack passed up a few wide open threes in favor of forcing badly contested twos, which is maccabeo's nightmare. He also got lost a few times on defense, which I do attribute to rust. But he's got to be more than a guy who dribbles the ball up the court and hands the ball off to Wilbekin or Dorsey every play.
    Wil, Bryant, zoo, dorsey, wolters none of them is able to fast penetrate and score. Di ba is not Like Rice but The lonely Who knows penetration.
    Jack. Refusing a wide open three to force one to one match to get the basket is probably thing i hate more of This sport. So u are right
    Last edited by maccabeo; 01-02-2020 at 11:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arelg View Post
    watch the game before you talk
    I watched the game and I don't think we lost because of the refs.
    Some calls were tough, some 50-50 calls went to the home team.
    On the other half at some point for the first time, there were 3 offensive fouls in a row on Zalgiris, all of which could have been avoided.

    This was super annoying lose against a much weaker team (when Maccabi is full squad). But it what it is. Injuries suck but who knows, maybe we just receive all of our injuries during winter time and we will arrive healthy and strong to the money time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maccabeo View Post
    Wil, Bryant, zoo, dorsey, wolters none of them is able to fast penetrate and score. Di ba is not Like Rice but The lonely Who knows penetration.
    Jack. Refusing a wide open three to force one to one match to get the basket is probably thing i hate more of This sport. So u are right
    Wilbekin doesn't finish around the rim but he penetrates all the time. He's too skinny to body up post players and finish through contact so he has a nice floater game. Wolters has a nice floater game, too.

    Diba has mostly been threes and open layups. He's had a few nice reverse layups where his man got lost on a P&R and he took advantage. He doesn't create anything in the iso game -- ever. He's good at popping a three if the defender goes underneath a pick. But saying he's a penetrator and Wolters and Wilbekin aren't shows a fundamental misunderstanding of basketball. In iso situations Maccabi has gone to Wilbekin first, Wolters second, and Dorsey third.

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    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arelg View Post
    the worst referees ever : 30 fouls called against Maccabi and only 19 for Zalgiris.
    this is ridiculous.
    Why is this ridiculous? You have six injured players, both centers out, main guy out, reserve point guard out, starting power forward out.

    Game after game, you played with 7-8 players in this crazy schedule. What are your players, supermen? You can be grateful for having Sfairopoulos as coach, he is the difference and his work is the very reason why your team is in top of the standings, and not at some 12th position.

    Your players just got tired, that's it. They can't play defense as they played in first half, they can't make their shots, it's natural. Without six players, with two new players who don't have time to adjust to their teammates, so seven players, two new players and Sandi Cohen - and you think that's natural to beat every team in euroleague with only seven players. They are men, my friend, not some cyborgs.

    I'm really proud of this victory. We have 29:42, then 36:49, but we never gave up like some other teams, and we won. We have a really, really bad team, we haven't any pure point guard, we can't make shot unless it's 3 meters away from basket. There is a reason why we have twelve loses, and only -1 point difference. Other teams would just give up immediately after -10 or -15, almost every other team.

    You should be proud too, you have great coach, your players play great, your club has one of the best fans in euroleague, it's incredibly hard to beat your team in Tel Aviv. Just wait for your players to return, you will have great season.


    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    After running up the game to a 20 points difference, our guys (mainly Sloukas) tried their best to gift the game to Oly but Oly simply sucked more than us today
    Lolympiacos is a joke, not a serious basketball team. Kemzura is just an excuse for a basketball coach, nothing more. They played against team who were without proper center, you have that advantage, and what they did? Didn't play defense at all, they allowed easy shots for three points, they didn't bother to guard De Colo. Kemzura looked like he was forced to be beside bench, like he was forced to be the coach against Fenerbahce. They had -20, and when they suddenly started to play some basketball, when the difference is reduced to only 4 point, they again allowed De Colo to score an easy three point shot, they lost the ball, and then, the great coach put Rochestie in the game, and defended -9 or -10 with two black holes in defense. Kemzura and Lolympiacos players looked like that was some friendly game, like they were celebrating Spanoulis retirement or something like that, and the only meaning of that game is to allow their teammate to become greatest player ever.

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    so. are there still people think that all these maccabi injuries are a coincidence? and the same thing happened every season this time of the year on his olympiakos days. he must be the unluckiest person on earth. or maybe not,just a tryharder in the first half of the season which costs him injuries and drop on his team performance later in the second half. but idc,a great loss for panathinaikos. even less stress against csska tomorrow. even if we lose maccabi will only be 2 wins away. efes,barcelona and real look unbeatable with home court advantage so we need to avoid them,which means at least 5th spot if we cant get the 4th
    Sasa Pukl for MVP

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    We won the first game that Malcolm played, even though he didn't contribute much, he took 20 minutes which helped a lot to our PF/C rotation.

    That was one of our main problems in the first half of the season, Vesely was injured again (his problem isn't looking like only physically as well) and Lauvergne wasn't as good as he was. And also Duverioglu didn't improve himself enough, or there is a problem between him and coach that he doesn't give him even 10 minutes anymore. (Although he played 18 minutes in the last TBL game).

    Anyways, even when we are in our worst shape we still beat Olympiacos, that's a very good habit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    I really don't give a fuck about a "punishment" of ABA league which is irregular out of so many aspects.
    two biggest points why it is irregular are Crvena Zvezda and FMP.
    third one is Čović. but he is both of the aboves as well.
    interesting how Zvezda fans just ignore something when they don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    .

    I'm really proud of this victory. We have 29:42, then 36:49, but we never gave up like some other teams, and we won. We have a really, really bad team, we haven't any pure point guard, we can't make shot unless it's 3 meters away from basket. There is a reason why we have twelve loses, and only -1 point difference. Other teams would just give up immediately after -10 or -15, almost every other team.
    .
    I haven't really watched any of Žalgiris games this season but this team is so bad. not even close to the teams from last seasons and I know all of you have been saying that but I didn't really believe it until I saw it myself.
    this team lacks everything. entire starting five is bad. well, except Ulanovas who was coming off injury so I would pass him for now.
    no inside presence, no outside shooting, no playmaking.
    Jankunas not a shadow of his former self and still playing half a game tells you a lot about the rest of the team.
    Hayes?
    I wouldn't let him play in Cibona, and we are so bad.
    Geben a starting center on a euroleague team? really?
    the only three things this team has are ŠARAS (with capital letters), fighting spirit and incredible atmosphere.
    one of the worst records in this season and a sold out arena yet again.
    the passion of lith basketball followers is great. once again.
    yes, and a I would add that this team does have a solid backup pg in Lekavičius who won the game yesterday, not by playmaking but by creating and shooting for himself.
    Last edited by Picek; 01-03-2020 at 07:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picek View Post
    two biggest points why it is irregular are Crvena Zvezda and FMP.
    third one is Čović. but he is both of the aboves as well.
    interesting how Zvezda fans just ignore something when they don't like it.



    I haven't really watched any of Žalgiris games this season but this team is so bad. not even close to the teams from last seasons and I know all of you have been saying that but I didn't really believe it until I saw it myself.
    this team lacks everything. entire starting five is bad. well, except Ulanovas who was coming off injury so I would pass him for now.
    no inside presence, no outside shooting, no playmaking.
    Jankunas not a shadow of his former self and still playing half a game tells you a lot about the rest of the team.
    Hayes?
    I wouldn't let him play in Cibona, and we are so bad.
    Geben a starting center on a euroleague team? really?
    the only three things this team has are ŠARAS (with capital letters), fighting spirit and incredible atmosphere.
    one of the worst records in this season and a sold out arena yet again.
    the passion of lith basketball followers is great. once again.
    yes, and a I would add that this team does have a solid backup pg in Lekavičius who won the game yesterday, not by playmaking but by creating and shooting for himself.
    Yeah, and 4th thing is that we are winning it almost every year (of course with help of Vatican, CIA, referees and aliens) and that's surely a point to be mentioned, too related to some complexes about KKCZ.

    I can live with all that talk as long as we are winning it every year again and again. And you should embrace great sportsmen and for sure no criminals like Bokan and Ostojic and the former "league" leadership.

    ABA league needs zvezda as much as zvezda needs ABA (a relationship just for Euro participation), I would be the first one to step out of this Circus league if Serbian league would give at least chance for qualification to EL. But the league leadership (which wasn't connected to us but to your country for years) destroyed everything with their idiotic deals with Bartomeu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GatorsGators View Post
    Wilbekin doesn't finish around the rim but he penetrates all the time. He's too skinny to body up post players and finish through contact so he has a nice floater game. Wolters has a nice floater game, too.

    Diba has mostly been threes and open layups. He's had a few nice reverse layups where his man got lost on a P&R and he took advantage. He doesn't create anything in the iso game -- ever. He's good at popping a three if the defender goes underneath a pick. But saying he's a penetrator and Wolters and Wilbekin aren't shows a fundamental misunderstanding of basketball. In iso situations Maccabi has gone to Wilbekin first, Wolters second, and Dorsey third.
    disagree. penetrator is a player who bring the ball from the arch and fast penetrate till the basket. dorsey, a player i like and who didint show his full potential, is ridiculous penetrating. he try but he always fail searching for absurd forced action.he simply doesnt know the right time to penetrate. wil's doesnt penetrate. when he has the ball after the arch, his option are passing the ball or searching for floater game. wolters can penetrate. av penetrator since he his not so fast and having not all talent needed to penetrate. diba is the lonely who really fast penetrate to the basket with talent needed. sure, he is not rice, or goudelock or larkin. but he is simply the lonely u can count on some pure, rational penetration . his career and his credits would me much higher if he was coached by great coach instead of our last mediocre "painty" once. again , his injury is the key injury of the year for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    so. are there still people think that all these maccabi injuries are a coincidence? and the same thing happened every season this time of the year on his olympiakos days. he must be the unluckiest person on earth. or maybe not,just a tryharder in the first half of the season which costs him injuries and drop on his team performance later in the second half. but idc,a great loss for panathinaikos. even less stress against csska tomorrow. even if we lose maccabi will only be 2 wins away. efes,barcelona and real look unbeatable with home court advantage so we need to avoid them,which means at least 5th spot if we cant get the 4th
    pana offensive power is impressive because they have players who can at same time penetrating and shooting with same high efficency. your problme is imo the classic old "painty" bball by pitino. anyway rumors says of new good add market and market will say everything of pana ambitions. i think u'l get 5th place . we could get the 6th or 7th (fighting with milan). think fener will get the 7th/8th position.
    sure home court adv is for real barca cska efes, that will fight for the title in f4

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    Quote Originally Posted by GatorsGators View Post
    Wilbekin doesn't finish around the rim but he penetrates all the time. He's too skinny to body up post players and finish through contact so he has a nice floater game. Wolters has a nice floater game, too.

    Diba has mostly been threes and open layups. He's had a few nice reverse layups where his man got lost on a P&R and he took advantage. He doesn't create anything in the iso game -- ever. He's good at popping a three if the defender goes underneath a pick. But saying he's a penetrator and Wolters and Wilbekin aren't shows a fundamental misunderstanding of basketball. In iso situations Maccabi has gone to Wilbekin first, Wolters second, and Dorsey third.
    floater game- something much more risky than the true penetration to the basket

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    I can live with all that talk as long as we are winning it every year again and again. And you should embrace great sportsmen and for sure no criminals like Bokan and Ostojic and the former "league" leadership.
    .
    Partizan has won it five times in a row. so they were the ones winning it every year again and again.
    so your Vatican CIA etc is not eveen funny. it's just bad humor.

    you guys think Čović is a retard for forcing and keeping his son in your team but for everything else for you he is not a retard.
    speaking about double standards.

    Vujošević was bad for the league but nowhere near the level of how bad Čović is for the league and basketball in general.
    you mention criminals but the biggest criminal ever in ABA league is actually him.
    but it's pointless to discuss about it.

    I surely hope that league will end with it's existence rather sooner then later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    Lolympiacos is a joke, not a serious basketball team. Kemzura is just an excuse for a basketball coach, nothing more. They played against team who were without proper center, you have that advantage, and what they did? Didn't play defense at all, they allowed easy shots for three points, they didn't bother to guard De Colo. Kemzura looked like he was forced to be beside bench, like he was forced to be the coach against Fenerbahce. They had -20, and when they suddenly started to play some basketball, when the difference is reduced to only 4 point, they again allowed De Colo to score an easy three point shot, they lost the ball, and then, the great coach put Rochestie in the game, and defended -9 or -10 with two black holes in defense. Kemzura and Lolympiacos players looked like that was some friendly game, like they were celebrating Spanoulis retirement or something like that, and the only meaning of that game is to allow their teammate to become greatest player ever.
    Olympiakos did not play well, I had a few puzzling questions, too, but I think Fener has a few reasons to be hopeful here. First of all, it's important to win in Greece, no matter the circumstances. Second, they played with some passion, and third, they were able to resist the almost-chronic end-game collapse, when Oly almost caught them up at 61-65. De Colo saved the day, as he is expected to. Btw, he makes it look easy all the time, that's why he's such a highly-regarded scorer.

    and congratulations to Spanoulis for making EL history.
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    Ivanovic beat his fellow grandpa Pesic yesterday, with a little of luck, imo. They were almost disintegrating after a big lead, then Shengelia, their only top-level player, decided to take the responsibility on his shoulders, and slammed it over Oriola. What a huge play it was.

    I saw a funny bit somewhere last week, it was something like this:

    2002-03 Euroleague coaches
    - Ivanovic (Baskonia)
    - Pesic (Barcelona)
    - Messina (Benetton Treviso)
    - Obradovic (PAO)
    - Ataman (Siena)
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    They were almost disintegrating after a big lead, then Shengelia, their only top-level player, decided to take the responsibility on his shoulders, and slammed it over Oriola. What a huge play it was.
    it was on Mirotić and it was huge. best action of the week and this entire year


    Shengelia also hit a huge three couple of minutes before that , one which kept Baskonia in the lead when Barca cut it to two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picek View Post
    Partizan has won it five times in a row. so they were the ones winning it every year again and again.
    so your Vatican CIA etc is not eveen funny. it's just bad humor.

    you guys think Čović is a retard for forcing and keeping his son in your team but for everything else for you he is not a retard.
    speaking about double standards.

    Vujošević was bad for the league but nowhere near the level of how bad Čović is for the league and basketball in general.
    you mention criminals but the biggest criminal ever in ABA league is actually him.
    but it's pointless to discuss about it.

    I surely hope that league will end with it's existence rather sooner then later.
    Biggest criminal by far is Bokan. If you are at least in any case connected to Montenegro, which I am, you have not 1% doubt about it. Second largest criminal is the ex fraction leading the league based in Ljubljana. They literally defunctionalized the league, at least now the league is in the hands of the clubs again which is a heavy step forwards even, of course, with people like Bokan it is heavy to deal.

    Covic is a problem for y'all because he is successful, because he has management competence and because he brought back zvezda on track to be a competitive team. That hurts both, teams from Croatia and those created in Croatia and now unfortunately playing in Serbia Pleasure for me.

    I didn't ever call him "retard", nor any normal zvezda fan who attends the games would ever do.

    In fact I still don't see your argument why Covic is so bad for basketball. I will ALWAYS take Covic who ended Partizan's political influence and their heavy pressure on referees and their involvement with SPS in the 90s and 2000s than having a situation like club basketball has in Croatia. The problem is and always will be that Red Star is successful right now. In fact you are sounding like an average fan of Partizan. 20 years pushed by the governments of 1 1/2 countries (Serbia and BiH) and now as they have to deal with their own problems and see that they can't they installed again a pro-government president. Zvezda is financially and politically independant and THAT counts, not your conspiracy theories about "crime" where you don't even have one evidence.

    At least we can agree that ABA league is bad. At long term it will be interesting to see which league has profited more from it, Croatian or Serbian, I surely have no doubt that Croatian basketball is weaker and that the profit is much larger for you.

    And in fact, you are right, it's really pointless to discuss with Cibona fans about zvezda. The court is the truth. Good luck and cheers.
    Last edited by Katastroika; 01-03-2020 at 09:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    Sorry for offtopic: But just to answer your questions: No, it was not a crucial game of course. Zvezda will be in 4 at the end quite sure regardless of the result of Podgorica's game, the schedule favours us heavily, even a win in Podgorica wouldn't help much regarding homecourt advantage so it's a pretty meaningless game. I won't even get into why zvezda didn't travel down, I am sure you know it very well.

    20-0 for sure. There are no reasons to deduct points nor are there any regulations which would favor it, especially not under circumstances like that.

    Have a nice time reading our punishment. I am glad that we are at least interesting to someone. I you have further exciting questions about our ABA campaign feel free to ask them in the Serbian subforum.
    That's why i said in any "serious league" it would mean a deduction of points Can't be sure about ABA league.I'm just holding my bucket of pop corn and wait for the decision.But you do realise that the standard punishment is deduction of points because otherwise teams would forfeit games left and right.

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    Enjoy your popcorn, bro. X-Large coke and Hot Dogs may not be forgotten.

    For example in German BBL there is no deduction for not playing games. There is a punishment of 50.000€ fine and no deduction of ponits and even this fine hasn't to be paid if there are reason that has to be considered. You can look it up, there regulations are available at Google. I just checked it once again to be 100% sure.

    As ABA league, on what we all agree, is a Circus league, there are not even those clarifications. But, for you, I realized by reading your comments that you talk a lot in order to provoke but substantially it's often less meaningful. Or maybe German BBL is also a badly organized league...

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    Bits and pieces from yesterday.

    I only watched 2nd half of Oly- Fener game. In the end, Fener won because of the isolation of De Colo on Milutinov. Mike James did the same thing two years in a row and PAO returned to the league titles. Little guy makes the big guy dance. Oly has a massive problem with their guards in defence. I laughed when I saw Kemzura put Rochestie on the court at the same time as Spanoulis. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I don't understand why Printezis was so little time on court in the 4th. He was key to bringing down the differance from -19 to -4. I really don't understand coaches sometimes how they can fuck up so badly. I actually preferred an Oly win because Fener will ALWAYS be dangerous with Obradovic and they can make a 6-7 game win run.

    Saras made a point about Sfairopoulos with pushing the players hard in training for the first 3-4 months and then his team looking like a hospital ward after that. There seems to be a pattern. Not just bad luck. As the season goes on, gets more difficult and crucial, I think he will be smart to sacrifice something in the competitive Israeli league. He should let his players heal 100% before throwing them back in even if it means losing games because you will need everyone 100% healthy during the play offs. Sfairopoulos didn't do this 2 years ago and Zalgiris smashed them in the play offs easily.

    Papanikolaou is the most annoying player in the world. Never admits a foul and is always looking to dive to win an offensive foul. Apart from that he plays dirty. I'm still not over him puching Chris Singleton on the head when he was dunking on the fast break.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1NfnnJoSOY

    Congrats to Spanoulis for his achievement. He said that he sees himself playing next year too. I called Navarro a cancer for Barca in his last 2 seasons. Once they retired him, they became competitive again. The difference with Diamantidis is when he saw he was becoming less relevant and and had lost his powers, he called it quits. Basketball has both offence and defence. No good when you score 10 and concede 15.

    As long as Oly has Spanoulis playing 25 mins they are destined to fail and be a punching bag in competitions both Euroleague and A1. Let's face it, they dropped to A2 so they could avoid losing to us.
    Last edited by EverGreen; 01-03-2020 at 11:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    Lolympiacos is a joke, not a serious basketball team. Kemzura is just an excuse for a basketball coach, nothing more. They played against team who were without proper center, you have that advantage, and what they did? Didn't play defense at all, they allowed easy shots for three points, they didn't bother to guard De Colo. Kemzura looked like he was forced to be beside bench, like he was forced to be the coach against Fenerbahce. They had -20, and when they suddenly started to play some basketball, when the difference is reduced to only 4 point, they again allowed De Colo to score an easy three point shot, they lost the ball, and then, the great coach put Rochestie in the game, and defended -9 or -10 with two black holes in defense. Kemzura and Lolympiacos players looked like that was some friendly game, like they were celebrating Spanoulis retirement or something like that, and the only meaning of that game is to allow their teammate to become greatest player ever.
    But better than Zalgiris.

    Milutinov's main talent is being 4 inches taller than most of his match-ups. He can't shoot, he can't post-up (Reed has shown better post moves and last night he couldn't post-up Melih in one play so he's no Hakeem either), he can't defend in the perimeter. He wouldn't see the court for five minutes if he played for Real and he is -in theory- the best player of the team.
    But the real damage was in the 2nd quarter when we decided we should also go small-ball against the worst rebounding team of the league and when all of the players apparently forgot what defense they were playing. It looked like switching without the switching but who can tell for sure.
    Last edited by Oly_fan; 01-03-2020 at 12:51 PM.

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