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Thread: Euroleague regular season: Week 16

  1. #221
    Senior Member thegreekmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    not even close to 18 wins. the 8th team will probably have negative score and more losses than wins,they lose against each other every week. the problem with fener is that most of their home games from now on are against far better teams. if you cant win zalgiris,zenit,valencia and luckily win alba on your home you cant expect to win real,barcelona,maccabi and csska in the second round. btw in the last round they play against efes,im sure ataman will make sure they dont lose this one even if efes has no interest in the game
    Basic math: 50/50 wins puts you in the middle.
    Meaning 17-17 puts you in 9.5th place (so far it is kind of on point with 9th place being 8-8)
    So for 8th place you need at least 1 win more, which puts 18-16.


    Of course there are variables and some seasons you may need 1-2 more, some seasons 1-2 less, but general math does not lie (as in 50-50 wins equals middle place, which is 9.5th place).


    Additionaly there will be eliminated bottom teams (or top teams that secured certain position) at certain point towards the end.
    And teams in the middle will be much more motivated for the wins in these games, meaning even higher chances for those middle teams to win (as opposed to if they met those outsiders when they are still not eliminated). So there is only reasons for win ratios to go above math model for those middle teams, not below.

    Taking 10 years, 17-17 won't be enough to reach top 8 most of the time (as mathematically 50-50 puts you in the 9.5th place).
    And 16-18 for top8 may happen once or max twice in a decade.
    Last edited by thegreekmeister; 12-28-2019 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #222
    Senior Member thegreekmeister's Avatar
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    As for 0.4 seconds.

    Do you guys expect people able to press clock button precisely?
    I think in these situations refs simply know it is 0.4 seconds and base the judgement on that, not looking at a shot clock because it is not possible to precisely run shot clock like that.


    On another point, Tucker rule says that you have to have at least 0.3 seconds to be able to make a shot. BUT it does not say that ALL sots can be done in 0.3 seconds. I mean you can hold the ball longer and your shot may take 0.6 seconds or even more.
    So the fact that rule says you ARE ABLE to make a shot in 0.3 does not mean that you will make a shot in that time.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreekmeister View Post
    Do you guys expect people able to press clock button precisely?
    I think in these situations refs
    On another point, Tucker rule says that you have to have at least 0.3 seconds to be able to make a shot. BUT it does not say that ALL sots can be done in 0.3 seconds. I mean you can hold the ball longer and your shot may take 0.6 seconds or even more.
    So the fact that rule says you ARE ABLE to make a shot in 0.3 does not mean that you will make a shot in that time.
    That is correct. I think the whole point of this rule was that with 0.3 or less you were only allowed a tip-in, regardless of what the clock guys did with the clock.
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    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    I said some months ago, and now I am more convinced.

    Spanoulis = Navarro

    Printezis = Reyes

    Spanoulis and Navarro were the best at his twenties, but both are ending his careers in a very similar way (both should have retired earlier).

    Reyes and Printezis were good players in their twenties, but they become even better at their thirties.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chacho View Post
    I said some months ago, and now I am more convinced.

    Spanoulis = Navarro

    Printezis = Reyes

    Spanoulis and Navarro were the best at his twenties, but both are ending his careers in a very similar way (both should have retired earlier).

    Reyes and Printezis were good players in their twenties, but they become even better at their thirties.
    It is leagues “easier” (in the relative sense of course) to be better as a big man when you are older than a perimeter player.
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  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    We had lost a game in Russia in the past because they didn't run down the clock. But in this case what De Colo did is possible to do regardless of game clock.

    I am not your son, dude, and I don't care about your age. I call out bullshit when I see it. I don't like it people like saras (who has a complex) claim after every game that when Fener wins it is because of the refs and sponsors but when Fener loses it is despite the efforts of the refs and sponsors. I also don't like it when regular people decide that his bullshit has merit... Despite their 20 years of experience(!)
    For you it's bullshit. For everyone else here cear rule violation in game deciding situation. I can live with that.

  7. #227
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    It is leagues “easier” (in the relative sense of course) to be better as a big man when you are older than a perimeter player.
    True, but you should know the right moment to retire.

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    A bit off topic but Oly seems to have a good future. In Angt Oly beat Cedevita today with 103-73. Nikolaidis seems to be the next big guard prospect of the greeks but he needs to work on his body. Koloveros needs also be observed.

    About Roko Prkacin: i was always skeptical when they said he was a franchise player but having watched him after 1,5 years he is really one.
    Last edited by Toruko; 12-28-2019 at 06:02 PM.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    A bit off topic but Oly seems to have a good future. In Angt Oly beat Cedevita today with 103-73. Nikolaidis seems to be the next big guard prospect of the greeks but he needs to work on his body. Koloveros needs also be observed.
    I liked Nikolaidis with the youth team this summer (he stood out despite being the youngest) but I wouldn't judge a Greek prospect before they're 25.

  10. #230
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    As a team we were terrible, but that rebound difference by our bigs and the absolute idiocy of Sloukas at the end and OT are unacceptable. So yeah team needs to do a lot before they regain anyone's trust. I can see half of them gone at the end of the year anyway.
    We can't change from here anything. We are not payed like those overpayed clowns but we exchange here our opinions that's all.

    We should keep just De Colo, Datome and Vesely(if his injury isn't chronic like Lauvergnes). Plus Biberovic and that's it.
    5 new foreigners and 4 domestic players like Yigit Arslan, Yasar Muhsin etc

    Melih should stay but only as role player for 5 to 10 mins. In good days he is dangerous weapon for opponent, but if he miss first few shoots he is dengerous for Fener.

  11. #231
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    For you it's bullshit. For everyone else here cear rule violation in game deciding situation. I can live with that.
    Yeah, sure, keep telling that to yourself. I love how everyone other than you and saras say that the shot by De Colo was legit though. Will you accept that you were wrong? Or your experience will reveal something we don't know?

    Meanwhile Euroleague announced their referees again fucked us up in a game deciding position but I am sure it's a part of their convoluted long term plan, actually they are a mafia that supports Turlish teams, right?

    https://www.euroleague.net/news/i/aa...sive-foul-call
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  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreekmeister View Post
    As for 0.4 seconds.

    Do you guys expect people able to press clock button precisely?
    I think in these situations refs simply know it is 0.4 seconds and base the judgement on that, not looking at a shot clock because it is not possible to precisely run shot clock like that.


    On another point, Tucker rule says that you have to have at least 0.3 seconds to be able to make a shot. BUT it does not say that ALL sots can be done in 0.3 seconds. I mean you can hold the ball longer and your shot may take 0.6 seconds or even more.
    So the fact that rule says you ARE ABLE to make a shot in 0.3 does not mean that you will make a shot in that time.
    In the instance last night, the shot from De Colo was fair and legit.
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  13. #233
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    That is correct. I think the whole point of this rule was that with 0.3 or less you were only allowed a tip-in, regardless of what the clock guys did with the clock.
    No. 0.3 is the minimum for catch and shoot, theoretically you can do a tip in with less than 0.3 as the game starts when you touch the ball.
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  14. #234
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    I liked Nikolaidis with the youth team this summer (he stood out despite being the youngest) but I wouldn't judge a Greek prospect before they're 25.
    I've been keeping an eye on him but he hasn't set the world on fire in A2. His points are usually less than 10. The same goes for Arsenopoulos. Only Pokusevski is showing true potential.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    Yeah, sure, keep telling that to yourself. I love how everyone other than you and saras say that the shot by De Colo was legit though. Will you accept that you were wrong? Or your experience will reveal something we don't know?

    Meanwhile Euroleague announced their referees again fucked us up in a game deciding position but I am sure it's a part of their convoluted long term plan, actually they are a mafia that supports Turlish teams, right?

    https://www.euroleague.net/news/i/aa...sive-foul-call

    LOL!

    I really don't have a problem with you except that you cannot accept obvious things, or let me correct it, one obvious thing. Zvezda got the title with a obvious travel from Baron and everyone from zvezda's fans admits that. You challenge things that are simply not defendable and irony is really not your strength. I have neither problems with Turks nor with Turkish clubs. What drugs do you take? What conspiracies do you create, bro?

    I just said you offended my opinion by writing "bullshit" and I still say that it was clear clockshot violation. Not more, not less. And yes, Fener is surely one of the teams which has a good homecourt whistling the last years compared to small teams. That's just the way it is. Zvezda has it too in Serbian league. It's not my problem that you take it personally that I say it's a referees mistake.

    PS: How is it possible that in all Serbian forums everyone says it was a violation? Antiturkism? Of course... LOL! LOL! LOL!

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    I liked Nikolaidis with the youth team this summer (he stood out despite being the youngest) but I wouldn't judge a Greek prospect before they're 25.
    I also watched all youth games and I can say he improved significantly in the last 5 month but the most important jump is of course in the A Team and i am not sure if he can get a real chance with this body.

  17. #237
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    LOL!

    I really don't have a problem with you except that you cannot accept obvious things, or let me correct it, one obvious thing. Zvezda got the title with a obvious travel from Baron and everyone from zvezda's fans admits that. You challenge things that are simply not defendable and irony is really not your strength. I have neither problems with Turks nor with Turkish clubs. What drugs do you take? What conspiracies do you create, bro?

    I just said you offended my opinion by writing "bullshit" and I still say that it was clear clockshot violation. Not more, not less. And yes, Fener is surely one of the teams which has a good homecourt whistling the last years compared to small teams. That's just the way it is. Zvezda has it too in Serbian league. It's not my problem that you take it personally that I say it's a referees mistake.

    PS: How is it possible that in all Serbian forums everyone says it was a violation? Antiturkism? Of course... LOL! LOL! LOL!
    I'd like to discuss but we are not getting anywhere because your opinion comes down to "De Colo made a legit shot (as proven by the rule and by the opinion of majority here) but the clock guys in the arena MAYBE pressed the button 0.1 seconds late than he touched the ball so it is a violation". Yeah, good luck convincing anyone with that. I also showed you another violation that Euroleague admitted, and one that ACTUALLY changed the outcome of the game, which you conveniently ignored. So, I choose not to discuss with you anymore. It is pointless.
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
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  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    I'd like to discuss but we are not getting anywhere because your opinion comes down to "De Colo made a legit shot (as proven by the rule and by the opinion of majority here) but the clock guys in the arena MAYBE pressed the button 0.1 seconds late than he touched the ball so it is a violation". Yeah, good luck convincing anyone with that. I also showed you another violation that Euroleague admitted, and one that ACTUALLY changed the outcome of the game, which you conveniently ignored. So, I choose not to discuss with you anymore. It is pointless.
    At least we agree that it is unfortunately pointless. We sinply disagree on that one. And "you" are no majority here from what I've read. You posted a rule (advise) that doesn't have to do anything with this situation. Of coursr the possibility for a shot is there. But in this situatipn the violation was visible. Cheers anyway. We should get along better next time I hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I've been keeping an eye on him but he hasn't set the world on fire in A2. His points are usually less than 10. The same goes for Arsenopoulos. Only Pokusevski is showing true potential.
    He's only 17. Arsenopoulos averaged a very promising 14 ppg last season but this season his minutes -and points- are down. He looked out of shape this summer, he was expected to make a splash in the youth tournaments and went unnoticed. One more reason to refrain from making a judgement on Greek talent, most seem allergic to training.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    He's only 17. Arsenopoulos averaged a very promising 14 ppg last season but this season his minutes -and points- are down. He looked out of shape this summer, he was expected to make a splash in the youth tournaments and went unnoticed. One more reason to refrain from making a judgement on Greek talent, most seem allergic to training.
    I think Pokusevski is being mis-handled this season. He should be getting EL minutes. I think he's a rare talent that isn't afraid of the big boys. RM aren't afraid to throw in a 17 year old. Oly has nothing to lose as this season is a complete waste for them. Not giving him time might make him easier to be stolen by other teams that will tell him they will give him minutes.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
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    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
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