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Thread: Euroleague regular season: Week 16

  1. #101
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    That clown papagiannis should retire today. If not,i think only an injury will save us from his presence. Pitino looks like he is in love with him
    Papagiannis seems to get improved slowly, even if he is not ready yet to be the first center. You should be angry with all those who don't deliver anything at all.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    He had James in 2016 and 2017.
    James was not the replacement I meant. Actually he is rather a sg than a pg.
    I would prefer someone like Hakett, which is much cheaper I presume.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    James was not the replacement I meant. Actually he is rather a sg than a pg.
    I would prefer someone like Hakett, which is much cheaper I presume.
    James on paper looks like prefect fit with Calathes. He can play off ball with Calathes or replaces him as a backup Pg.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    Papagiannis seems to get improved slowly, even if he is not ready yet to be the first center. You should be angry with all those who don't deliver anything at all.
    i meant vougioukas haha. i always blamed papagiannis but he is better in the last games
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    He had James in 2016 and 2017.

    I agree with you that Calathes is probably overused, but I'm also 100% sure that problems for Pao and Calathes in playoffs are in correlation with his inability to shoot. Coaches prepare differently for series and just exploit his biggest weaknesses. Could Pao play better with some other elite Pg? I don't know, but it would for sure be difficult to have worse playoffs record than with Calathes.
    would panathinaikos finish 6th last year with james instead of calathes? i think we would have been below 10th like he did in armani
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  6. #106
    Senior Member radallo's Avatar
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    The 71 attempted threes in PAO.RMB is new EL record
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  7. #107
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    the best built roster of calathes era was the seasons 2016-2017 and 2017-2018. but even if we managed to get HCA,we were unlucky to face the champions that looked unbeatable both seasons. and if the first season udoh,kalinic and bogdanovic looked unstoppable, i dont agree about the series against real the next season. calathes was by far the best player of both teams in these series and panathinaikos was on the same level with real missing the most important player for calathes to have even more space to do his stuff,kc rivers. i think panathinaikos and real were the best teams in overall that season and we should not blame calathes for not reaching the f4. we should take in consideration the refs in these series as well,especially in the 3rd match and the 4th when we came back from -20 and the refs called those funny offensive fouls on singleton and the technical foul on actor reyes
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  8. #108
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    What would have happened if Bogdan and Calathes were have been switched in 2016/2017 playoffs series?
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  9. #109
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    the best built roster of calathes era was the seasons 2016-2017 and 2017-2018. but even if we managed to get HCA,we were unlucky to face the champions that looked unbeatable both seasons. and if the first season udoh,kalinic and bogdanovic looked unstoppable, i dont agree about the series against real the next season. calathes was by far the best player of both teams in these series and panathinaikos was on the same level with real missing the most important player for calathes to have even more space to do his stuff,kc rivers. i think panathinaikos and real were the best teams in overall that season and we should not blame calathes for not reaching the f4. we should take in consideration the refs in these series as well,especially in the 3rd match and the 4th when we came back from -20 and the refs called those funny offensive fouls on singleton and the technical foul on actor reyes
    Eh, the refs literally allowed Pao players to beat up Madrid in the first game. They are not the cause Pao lost that series quite convincingly.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    What would have happened if Bogdan and Calathes were have been switched in 2016/2017 playoffs series?
    panathinaikos would not have a single point guard cause bogdan is not a pg. btw calathes wasnt that good in regular that season. most probably fener would still be euroleague champions cause nobody (perhaps only rivers stood up for the challenge in those games) played particullary good in the series.
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  11. #111
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    panathinaikos would not have a single point guard cause bogdan is not a pg. btw calathes wasnt that good in regular that season. most probably fener would still be euroleague champions cause nobody (perhaps only rivers stood up for the challenge in those games) played particullary good in the series.
    Bogdan has played as Pg many times in his career. My point is that team’s best player should step up, when it counts the most. Bogdan had, Calathes hadn’t.

    About series against Real. Pao decided to put everyone on Luka and tried to shut him down with every tactics, some very dirty, available. Consequently some others were left alone. On the other hand Real left Calathes to shoot freely. Result shows, who was better player in that series. Don’t forget that Real was without Campazzo and Llull. (Llull retuned in Madrid after not playing 9 months.)
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  12. #112
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfer View Post
    I think Efes has a shot at winning EL, after all anything can happen when you go to F4. You just need to play good 2 consecutive games and I guess this is what makes F4 magical . Real, Barca, Efes and CSKA, I would not be surprised if any of these teams win the title, they all have equal chances so far in my mind.
    The news on the Dunston front are not encouraging, people started to talk about his return during playoffs, which suggests to me that he is out for the season.

    Maybe we should ring Udoh.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    Papagiannis seems to get improved slowly, even if he is not ready yet to be the first center. You should be angry with all those who don't deliver anything at all.
    He shouldnt be you expectation if you want a team that can be in the f4. For a guy who got drafted as a lottery pick he hasnt developed even a bit and there is almost no constancy of his play. He cant create anything, his only weapon is a hook shot that gets in rarely. The rest is just put back or alley hoop and this just because Calathes is such a good passer. Defensively he is unfortunately bad too.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    The news on the Dunston front are not encouraging, people started to talk about his return during playoffs, which suggests to me that he is out for the season.

    Maybe we should ring Udoh.
    Dunston is in Germany and burned his foot. Hell just need more 2-3 weeks.

  15. #115
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Bogdan has played as Pg many times in his career. My point is that team’s best player should step up, when it counts the most. Bogdan had, Calathes hadn’t.

    About series against Real. Pao decided to put everyone on Luka and tried to shut him down with every tactics, some very dirty, available. Consequently some others were left alone. On the other hand Real left Calathes to shoot freely. Result shows, who was better player in that series. Don’t forget that Real was without Campazzo and Llull. (Llull retuned in Madrid after not playing 9 months.)
    In the 2nd Game, after being destroyed in the 1st one, we won with Carroll and Reyes doing a masterclass in the 2nd half.

    But the key was the 2nd quarter, with Llull and Campazzo injured, and Doncic in foul troubles, Chasson Randle appeared.

  16. #116
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    When you are a penetrator as good as Simmons, Papalukas or Calathes, it covers the inability to shoot 3's very well.
    These kind of players will penetrate or post up their guard, forcing help, and then (if double teamed), pass to the free player.

    Since passing is the primary function of the PG, I don't see bad 3'pt shooting as an infarction to being a leading PG.

    On the other hand, if you are a blessed shooter, teams should prosper if they remove the playmaking duty off you and let you
    concentrate on shooting. Look at some official PG's that aren't normally leading the ball into play: Larkin, James and Willbekin

    Therefore, we will see a lot more instances where the PG isn't expected to make a 7-meter shot. And this will invoke PG's
    that aren't necessarily the best shooters but have great court vision, passing ability and some sort of an inside game.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    If the team gets e.g. Rontriguez and builds around him a team without a center and without a second pg, I would expect much worse results. Calathes is not responsible for the signings. Having the same budget, the team could have made much better choices. I doubt that Jekiri is more expensive than Johnson.
    Well this is a fundamental disagreement. I think that the same team with someone like Sergio or Nando instead of Calathes would have been better. But that's just speculation.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    What would have happened if Bogdan and Calathes were have been switched in 2016/2017 playoffs series?
    I think you have posed this question before. The answer is that Fener would have probably still won the series.
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  19. #119
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DraxDomax View Post
    When you are a penetrator as good as Simmons, Papalukas or Calathes, it covers the inability to shoot 3's very well.
    These kind of players will penetrate or post up their guard, forcing help, and then (if double teamed), pass to the free player.

    Since passing is the primary function of the PG, I don't see bad 3'pt shooting as an infarction to being a leading PG.

    On the other hand, if you are a blessed shooter, teams should prosper if they remove the playmaking duty off you and let you
    concentrate on shooting. Look at some official PG's that aren't normally leading the ball into play: Larkin, James and Willbekin

    Therefore, we will see a lot more instances where the PG isn't expected to make a 7-meter shot. And this will invoke PG's
    that aren't necessarily the best shooters but have great court vision, passing ability and some sort of an inside game.
    You should read some Phily forums, people not exactly agree with you.
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  20. #120
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    I think you have posed this question before. The answer is that Fener would have probably still won the series.
    I don’t agree. There at least wouldn’t have been a bus home.
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