View Poll Results: Which team is going to Tokyo?

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  • Angola

    0 0%
  • Lithuania

    16 51.61%
  • Poland

    1 3.23%
  • Slovenia

    12 38.71%
  • South Korea

    1 3.23%
  • Venezuela

    1 3.23%
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Thread: Olympic Qualifying Tournament - LITHUANIA

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    logic behind nba players non europeans playing for NT is simple:

    most nba players (if healthy) wants to play in Olympics once in 4 years .

    Usa will bring bunch of top 10 their players too this summer like Curry,Leonard,Lillard types.

    When it comes to fiba world cup only upcoming young nba players wants to play.

    i see similiar mindset by best canadians like americans have.

    2019 and 2021 USA and Canada NT only proves that.

    That not the case for european nba players mindset. Jokic,Gobert, Giannis or previuosly Gasols,Parker, Nowitzki is/were comming and playing in eurobaskets and fiba world cups for their NT.
    This is a more accurate interpretation.
    The Olympics are way more important to North Americans than the World Cup or regional events. Always has been.
    I'm hoping that gradually changes as the WC is a better event.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    logic behind nba players non europeans playing for NT is simple:

    most nba players (if healthy) wants to play in Olympics once in 4 years .

    Usa will bring bunch of top 10 their players too this summer like Curry,Leonard,Lillard types.

    When it comes to fiba world cup only upcoming young nba players wants to play.

    i see similiar mindset by best canadians like americans have.
    This is a more accurate interpretation.
    And did I not say that most of the Canadians in the NBA these days don't differ in their mindset from the Americans in the NBA? These Canadians don't think of themselves or want to be seen as different from the Americans in the NBA. The fact that they're classified as Canadians is to them merely a geographical accident. They don't regard it as a meaningful differentiating feature.

    Contrast the attitude of the Canadians in the NBA with the attitude of the Canadians in the NHL when it comes to seizing the opportunity to play for Team Canada.


  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    And did I not say that most of the Canadians in the NBA these days don't differ in their mindset from the Americans in the NBA? These Canadians don't think of themselves or want to be seen as different from the Americans in the NBA. The fact that they're classified as Canadians is to them merely a geographical accident. They don't regard it as a meaningful differentiating feature.

    Contrast the attitude of the Canadians in the NBA with the attitude of the Canadians in the NHL when it comes to seizing the opportunity to play for Team Canada.

    This is silly. You really have no idea about these players or much about Canadian basketball. Where do you get this idea from?

    Comes across as veiled racism to be honest. That these players are not proud to be Canadian because they are black.

    These guys talk about being Canadian all the time - those from the Toronto area are always talking about how much they love Toronto. They all go back there in the summer, play the Canadian summer leagues, hang at the festivals.

    They all love Canadian music, they rep Canadian clothing brands, they wear Canada gear in pressers all the time. You can see it when they talk to American media - they know they are very different and are proud of it.


    I can find pics of Brandon Clarke in Team Canada gear earlier this year after a Grizzlies game. A guy born in Vancouver and moved to Phoenix at age three. Exceptions don’t make the rule of course, but if that guy is going out of his way to differentiate himself as Canadian it should tell you something.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    This is silly. You really have no idea about these players or much about Canadian basketball. Where do you get this idea from?

    Comes across as veiled racism to be honest. That these players are not proud to be Canadian because they are black.
    Ahah! You just played the race card! That indicates that it's you who thinks that race is a factor! I don't. So I'm not the one who can be termed the racist.



    P.S.: Playing the race card against me doesn't work. I'm not cowed by it. I'll just toss it back in your face and laugh at you for using it.


  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Ahah! You just played the race card! That indicates that it's you who thinks that race is a factor! I don't. So I'm not the one who can be termed the racist.



    P.S.: Playing the race card against me doesn't work. I'm not cowed by it. I'll just toss it back in your face and laugh at you for using it.

    Yeah ok - if that’s the path this is going I’ll leave it at this.

    First - Apologies if I came across as calling you a racist that wasn’t intended. Just that the concept is.

    But if you understood Canadian (and American) culture better and race relations you’d understand that this has been used many times in the past. And it clearly has racist undertones.
    The idea is Basketball players (representing visible minorities in Canada) are not as patriotic as hockey players (representing tradition Caucasian culture) in Canada. In this day that argument is left mostly to those you’d wouldn’t want to share a dinner with.

    You may have stepped into that argument unknowingly - but is a well discussed issue in Canada. I’ve sat through this idiotic discussion over the decades among my red neck small town cousins over holiday dinners.

    I’m sure the same conversations happens in Europe regarding immigrants.

    Just be careful making assumptions about these players, when you really don’t know the inner workings of the last few decades of Canada Basketball and the basketball culture in Canada.

    You can’t compare hockey to anything in Canada. You don’t understand the money that has been behind Hockey Canada for decades. It may have been Canada’s biggest contribution to the Cold War. (That might not even be a joke). The entire country - govt, media, culture - everything has been behind hockey for almost a hundred years.

    Basketball is a much younger phenomena in Canada. Basketball Canada has been running on amateur status pennies for decades with only recently it starting to get the attention it deserves. But it still has little money.

    I know the work behind the scenes Rowan Barrett and Glen Grunwald have been doing to try to pull this all together. Canada has never really had these resources in the past.


    It’s funny - Shai Gilgeous Alexander (injury) and Chris Boucher (injury/contract) went out of their way to provide a lengthy public explanation on why they are not playing in the Qualfier and how badly they wanted to play. . SGA went so far as to poorly photoshop himself into a Team Canada jersey.
    Even a guys like Dylan Ennis, who we didn’t really think would make the team, took to Twitter to explain why he wasn’t playing (baby on the way) but how badly hopes to one day play.

    Know who we didn’t hear an explanation from? Kevin Pangos and Kyle Wiltjer - but nobody is doubting their interest in playing.
    Last edited by mojo13; 05-29-2021 at 04:16 PM.

  6. #106

  7. #107
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Including the word "white" makes that a racist meme. Why would you post such a thing on this international basketball forum?


  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Including the word "white" makes that a racist meme. Why would you post such a thing on this international basketball forum?


    i guess I'm "race traitor"

  9. #109
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuDux View Post
    i guess I'm "race traitor"
    No, just a real jerk for introducing that expression into this thread. Plus a racist for posting the meme. Had you been colour blind the thought wouldn't have crossed your mind.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 05-29-2021 at 10:45 PM.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    You can’t compare hockey to anything in Canada. You don’t understand the money that has been behind Hockey Canada for decades. It may have been Canada’s biggest contribution to the Cold War. (That might not even be a joke). The entire country - govt, media, culture - everything has been behind hockey for almost a hundred years.
    Yes, Canada is all about hockey. But don't make the mistake of saying that it's all about money. Hockey is part of our national cultural heritage because of our geography. We are the true North, strong and free, we are the land of winter, frost and blizzards. And I'm proud of it. And you won't catch me fleeing to Florida or southern climes for the winter. I revel in my imperviousness to cold temperatures.

    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    But if you understood Canadian (and American) culture better....
    There! You've put your finger on the underlying issue right there! Does not the increasing American domination of our culture, particularly our sport culture, bother you? Well let me tell you that it burns my ass. And I don't so much blame the Americans who are doing it unwittingly, I blame other Canadians for embracing it.

    Consider. Every self-respecting Canadian beer drinker sneered at U.S. beer as "water" up until the end of the 1970's. Now the biggest selling beers in Canada are American piss water, e.g. Coors Light, Budweiser, Bud Light, etc. Labatt's doesn't even make IPA anymore and that was the choice of all the unionized plant workers at Labatt's in London including my father (who worked at Labatt's for 26 years until he retired while I worked at the plant for four summer from 1972-75). In fact Canadians even drink Corona now and put lemon in their beer for fuck's sake! I can imagine the disgust that would have elicited from my father.

    What happened to our support of hockey at the amateur level? The Allan Cup awarded to the best amateur Men's team in Canada was a big thing up until the early 1960's and now most Canadians don't even know what it is. Amateur hockey is not Major League you say? You realize of course that Major League translates to American, do you not? And that's precisely it. Without American interest, Canadians don't support it anymore.

    And why this infatuation with American college sports? We have our own universities with their own teams. Their football games used to draw big crowds even in (and particularly in) Toronto and Montréal. Moreover they're played by legitimate students who are actually working toward their degrees even in fields such as Engineering, Business, Law and Medicine. You say the "best" athletes play in American colleges? Well so damn what!!! I personally don't take a stop watch to games to time the players in the forty! I go to pull for my team (that of course being the University of Western Ontario Mustangs). A pox on the Yanks and the way they've turned their schools into naught but vehicles for the business of sports. Bloody hell.

    And that's also my bottom line when it comes to aspiring athletes. I sneer at the ones who choose to attend U.S. colleges instead of Canadian universities. I classify them immediately as American wannabees. And that includes hockey players. For over nineteen years I worked with one such fellow who attended Brown in the States on a hockey scholarship. We couldn't have been more different. He was the white bread Anglo-Saxon; I was the child of immigrants with the unpronounceable name. He was the high school athlete/frat boy who'd gone to seed as an adult because his only athletic activity was puffing on cigarettes and hoisting beer. I was the high school nerd who'd gotten an academic scholarship but had developed a lean and muscular physique through gym work after I graduated. He was balding; I had (and still do) long flowing locks which I rarely cut just because I didn't want to conform to society's expectations. He and I weren't close shall we say.

    And look at how support for our own brand of gridiron football has dwindled (particularly in Toronto this most American of Canadian cities)! Our own game on which we've put our own distinctive stamp and that's been an integral part of our cultural fabric since the 19th century (with the Tigers and Argonauts being the oldest football clubs on the continent) and Torontonians have abandoned it in droves embracing instead the American NFL. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, the players are (fill in the blanks) in the NFL but so fucking what? It's a different game here in Canada and it's our game!

    I still have fond and vivid recollections of driving up to Toronto from London with four of my drunken buddies just to take part in the Grey Cup Festivities in 1973. Throngs of revellers along Yonge Street all hooting and hollering with vendors of Rough Riders and Eskimos paraphernalia every hundred feet! Such a fabulous party. But by 1980 Toronto was too "sophisticated", i.e. full of itself, for such.

    Incidentally, have you ever tried suggesting to an Italian that since Germany is clearly better than Italy in soccer he should abandon Italian soccer and just watch the Bundesliga? If you do so you'd better be prepared to endure several hours of impassioned denials and argument. We Canadians though go down so easily in the face of the American cultural colossus. For shame!

    And now I've lost the gridiron football team I embraced as a kid back in 1960, you know the one based in Edmonton that every CFL fan in Canada's far North embraced as his own. And this was due once again to a movement originating in and spreading from the States. Sixty years of identifying with the team and now it's been taken from me. I'm beyond devastated. I'll never forget, never forgive.



    Now do you understand where I'm coming from? I'm very much of a Canadian nationalist when it comes to sport and culture. And I'm not afraid to criticize others when I don't think they live up to my standards.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 06-01-2021 at 11:24 PM.

  11. #111
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    Venezuela will come to Lithuania without its biggest star Gregory Echenique, who decided to skip this tournament. That's quite a blow bearing in mind quite small frontcourt they has. Not having much of offensive talent they used to with guys like Gravis Vazquez, Donta Smith and etc, Venezuela relies a lot on physical game, defense, team play is their main weapon, so it's always dangerous rival. And now they will have most of the players came back and playing in local league, so should be well gelled unit, giving it all on court. Full list:

    Bases: David Cubillán y Arián Amundaray (Trotamundos), Heissler Guillent (Guaiqueríes), Gregory Vargas (Cocodrilos) y Luis Betancourt (Taurinos)
    Escoltas: Pedro Chourio y Yohanner Sifontes (Spartans), Jhornan Zamora (Trotamundos), José Bracho (Centauros) y Fabrizio Pugliatti (Stella Azzurra)
    Aleros: José Vargas y Luis Duarte (Gigantes), Garly Sojo (Broncos), Anyelo Cisneros (Diablos) y Edgar Martínez (Guaiqueríes)
    Ala-pívots: Michael Carrera, José Ascanio y Eliezer Montaño (Guaiqueríes) y Néstor Colmenares y Luis Bethelmy (Cocodrilos)
    Pívots: Windi Graterol (Spartans), Miguel Ruiz (Trotamundos), Luis Carrillo (Guaiqueríes) y Miguel Bolivar (Gigantes)


  12. #112

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    Slovenia's roster. They start the camp today. Doncic joins June 15. Now that Jordan is out, Cancar might be important for them (Nuggets goes down 2:0 heavily against the Suns so he should come). It's unknown yet if Alen Omic will join, he's pissed because Slovenia picked Randolph in 2017. That big center would be really handy for Slovenia. Some of Slovenia's Eurocup's pieces are underrated as Jaka Blazic. Last year Prepelic was doing something like Blazic did this year in Eurocup, then Prepelic joined Valencia and, guess what, he was playing well in EL.

    Jaka Blažič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Vlatko Čančar („Denver Nuggets“), Jakom Čebašek („Dinamo Bukarešta“), Žiga Dimec („Cedevita Olimpija“), Luka Dončič („Mavericks“), Zoran Dragič („Baskonia“), Gregor Glas („Dynamic“), Gregor Hrovat („Cholet“), Jan Kosi (Krka), Miha Lapornik („Den Bosch Heroes“), Jurij Macura (FMP), Blaž Mahkovic („Helios Suns“), Edo Murič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Aleksej Nikolič („Gravelines“), Alen Omič („Jl Bourg Basket“), Klemen Prepelič („Valencia“), Matic Rebec („Orasi Ravenna“), Luka Rupnik („Cedevita Olimpija“), Žan Mark Šiško („Bayern“), Gašper Vidmar („Umana Reyer“).
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  13. #113
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    It's Doncic and a bunch of quality role players. So, it's the situation Doncic is very familiar with because he has the same roster construction in Dallas. There is no reason to think he is going to play any differently than what he used to play in Dallas. So that's probably good for Lithuania's scouting, there is a lot of tape and video how that kind of roster with one superstar and a lot of role players work together. There is also a bunch of different defensive coverages that teams tried against Doncic and it could be a good indicator what works and what doesn't work against Doncic.

    To be honest, I think this Slovenian team is very dangerous. Those role players like Blazic, Prepelic, Dragic, Muric, Sisko are absolutely capable of making huge impact on game. Cancar is a bit unknown, offensively he will be crashing the glass and spotting up, while defensively he is going to be physical (really good body) and actually if Omic won't play or Slovenian bigs get into foul trouble he can take some defensive assignments vs Valanciunas/Sabons. He can be an X factor for Slovenia, especially defensively. Also, there isn't just Doncic who is good with ball, but also Sisko can do a fairly good job replacing Doncic a little bit giving him extra break. I always felt like this Slovenian team has a bunch of those same type of players at guard position - small, always undersized, physically not imposing at all, but really good shooters like Rupnik, Lapornik, Mahkovic, Rebec...It's really important to do a good scouting work on those players, they are capable of punishing defense if underestimated.

    It's crucial for Slovenia that Omic plays. A really needed big body vs Liths frontcourt. Vidmar is experienced and tough but him alone won't be enough even on a good shooting day for Slovenia. I think Slovenian team can field a very good lineup: Doncic/Prepelic/Blazic/Cancar/Omic followed by Sisko, Nikolic, Dragic, Vidmar. Nikolic might play with Doncic as he is aggressive on ball defender and will try to make a huge pressure on Kalnietis/Lekavicius/Jokubaitis and make Doncic relax a little bit on defensive end which could also be very important throughout the game and in crunch time.

    Huge advantage for Liths in the paint area, while Slovenian guards I think are more than capable of outplaying Lithuanian guards. Advantages and disadvantages are pretty clear on both sides.

  14. #114

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    Absolutely. I agree that Omic and Cancar are X factors for Slovenia. Throw couple of sturdy bigs against Sabonis and JV and that may be enough t slow them down. Paint area is really thin in FIBA and the game is much more physical, rigid. So if you have guys like Omic, Vidmar who can just go off for a fist fight it's already good news for Slovenia (and I agree Cancar is nicely bulked, he's ain't no kid anymore). On other hand, I hope refs will allow to beat the shit out of Doncic a little but as well, but knowing his status now refs might really give him some calls and easy point at the line. And, yeah, we somehow will have to provide our best shot to slow down Slovenia's shooting and they have a lot of shooting...

    Interesting moment that Slovenia's coach is just as much no-body as ours. And we may even have advantage as our coach may have advice of Jasikevicius how to set a defensive plan, how to utilize one or other advantage of Lithuania.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Slovenia's roster. They start the camp today. Doncic joins June 15. Now that Jordan is out, Cancar might be important for them (Nuggets goes down 2:0 heavily against the Suns so he should come). It's unknown yet if Alen Omic will join, he's pissed because Slovenia picked Randolph in 2017. That big center would be really handy for Slovenia. Some of Slovenia's Eurocup's pieces are underrated as Jaka Blazic. Last year Prepelic was doing something like Blazic did this year in Eurocup, then Prepelic joined Valencia and, guess what, he was playing well in EL.

    Jaka Blažič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Vlatko Čančar („Denver Nuggets“), Jakom Čebašek („Dinamo Bukarešta“), Žiga Dimec („Cedevita Olimpija“), Luka Dončič („Mavericks“), Zoran Dragič („Baskonia“), Gregor Glas („Dynamic“), Gregor Hrovat („Cholet“), Jan Kosi (Krka), Miha Lapornik („Den Bosch Heroes“), Jurij Macura (FMP), Blaž Mahkovic („Helios Suns“), Edo Murič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Aleksej Nikolič („Gravelines“), Alen Omič („Jl Bourg Basket“), Klemen Prepelič („Valencia“), Matic Rebec („Orasi Ravenna“), Luka Rupnik („Cedevita Olimpija“), Žan Mark Šiško („Bayern“), Gašper Vidmar („Umana Reyer“).
    I am eager to see how Šiško will work out as the first PG, apart from that Zoran Dragič will add some depth to the perimeter, while needless to say Randolph and Dragič can't be replaced. And neither can Vidmar's defense, he had too many injuries this season and won't be competing with NT anymore. We'll be really thin inside the paint.

    As for Omič, he might create more problems with his head than provide solutions with his basketball knowledge. I honestly am not sure if I would prefer him to come and play or sit at home. Sure Dimec is a cartoon character, but at least you know what to expect with him. Actualy, I think I prefer Macura in NT to Omič, nevermind the difference in quality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  16. #116
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Doncic is a machine for drawing fouls. So, yes, I think refereeing criteria is going to be very important. Doncic is a big name, it's easy to blow whistle in his favor, but on the other hand it's your home in front of your fans so that might make some balance.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    I am eager to see how Šiško will work out as the first PG, apart from that Zoran Dragič will add some depth to the perimeter, while needless to say Randolph and Dragič can't be replaced. And neither can Vidmar's defense, he had too many injuries this season and won't be competing with NT anymore. We'll be really thin inside the paint.
    So Omic is even more vital for you.

    On other hand, Doncic will be with the ball in his hands all game long pretty much or you think that Slovenia will try to make his life easier allowing Sisko to facilitate Doncic in the high post? Maybe here and there surely, but Doncic with the ball is a threat from the second one, and he will want everything: fast brakes, baseball passes, aggressive penetration at the half court line observing the contact. A lot of angles in this game, will be interesting how it will pan out. The same Prepelic can take things into his matters as he did in 2017 EB final when Donic got hurt and Dragic gassed, he carried the team. On the other hand, I wish Lithuania would pretty much use all 12 players rotations, some of tiny role players just coming out and giving their last breath in their 5-10min. Thus Lithuania would utilize the advantage of the size, athleticism, toughness to make it an impact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  18. #118
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Also forgot about Muric...he will add length and size for Slovenia at forward positions. Physical and capable of hitting shots, though not too reliable. Good defensive presence. Slovenia definitely has 10 good players and their potential second lineup with Sisko-Nikolic-Dragic-Muric-Vidmar is also competitive. What's up with Vidmar? Why wouldn't he play if he is on the list? That would be a huge blow for Slovenia.

  19. #119
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    Whats with Vlatko Cancar? Hell also be available when Denver losts the series against Phoenix. Blaz Mesicek is also a young guy with potential.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Blaz Mesicek is also a young guy with potential.
    Irrelevant. Not included among candidates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

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