Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 178

Thread: Euroleague Regular Season: Week 9

  1. #141
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    5,274
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I don' think Janketa's statement was that outrageous. On paper you could say it's a fair comment. With the Obradovic factor even more so but there a big suprises in sport sometimes. I don't even think a mad man could predict how bad Fener were going to be. I too felt Fener acquired well and had a good balance but you don't expect a whole group of players all playing their worst bar De Colo.

    I just think it's a case that Fener have been found out. Their game hasn't evolved from the last 4-5 years. Who is to blame? The coach obviously. I've said it before the same thing happened a couple times at PAO under Zoc. Nothing seems to be working in offence and the team was greatly dependent on the brilliance of Diamantidis to survive and win games but still with all the firepower we had at our disposal poor Partizan handed us our asses twice (2007-08 and 2009-10). PAO had a 30 mil budget then. Partizan barely 3-4 million (if that!). Ofcourse, the current format allows big budget clubs to recover but to recover you may need 1 or 2 new players and that is something Zoc despises. Attaining players midseason. It never worked at PAO. All that came left as failures or were just stop gap solutions for injuries and the list is very long namely: Tracy Murray, Brandon Hunter, Haris Mujezinovic, Jurica Golemac, Nikola Prkacin, Marcus Haislip. Even at Fener his mid-season signings have had little effect or have been trash like Jason Thompson, Anthony Bennett, Blagota Sekulic, Pierre Jackson and Eric Green.

    For Fener to get back on the road to victories, they need De Colo for starters. Then they need to get back to basics. The most basic of basics in to play defence. They didn't yesterday. They were constantly 2 paces behind the ball play of Barca. It's like they were constantly stuck in 2nd gear in offence. The Most suprising aspect in the game was that it looked over in the 1st quarter, heads were down constantly. Zoc was pacing, sitting down and looked completely out of morale. I've never seen him like that. The players were competely rudderless. Sloukas has shown in the last few games he cannot lead Fener. He simply isn't good enough.

    I'm not close to Fener to know what the situation is in regards to the relationship between Zoc and the players. If he's lost them or there are problems between the playing group. The most appropriate action of Ali Koc to do is tell the players that they need to wake up. If they don't Zoc has the authority to send players home. He must support Zoc 100% if he is to save the season. The players may be thinking "Oh, we have sh*t results. This usually means the coach gets sacked so f*ck it. Let him be sacked and we have another lifeline with a new coach.". Sorry but you don't sack the greatest coach of all time. You might tell him in the summer that it's time for a change in direction but you simply don't sack him.

    Look back a history. PAO had a disaster in 2009-10 in Europe. Knocked out in the 2nd group phase. In the summer we lose Spanoulis, Pekovic and Jasikevicius. Next season we win the EL again. The summer after that we lose Fotsis and Sato another 2 key players yet we reach the F4 and only go out to CSKA in the most scandalous of refereeing performances of all time after. leading pretty much the whole game. This team had dropped from 30 mil budget to 17-18 within 2 years yet Zoc was able to rebuild and put out a competitive team even with joke players like David Logan, Aleks Maric and Steve Smith as 3 of our 6 foreigners.

    PS I laugh at people that think that Zoc telling the players to "Go f*ck themselves" had/ has a negative impact. That means they have no idea how competitive sport works. I played football at local league level until I was 24 and the coaches would verbally abuse us constantly during games. Maybe it's a Balkan thing. This would get a rise out of us, it wouldn't upset us because we understood it was "heat of the moment stuff". The coach doesn't mean it. He wants you to respond because sweet words aren't working anymore. I remember when I was about 17-18 I had this coach that was constantly on my back. Constantly. Verbal abuse, shoving me etc. I made a private complaint one day about his behavior towards me. You know what he said? "I abuse you because I believe in you. You are good but not doing what your supposed to. If I didn't care about you, I would simply ignore you, you'd be out and I would tell you to find another team".
    I mostly agree with you. But comparing Barca's starting 5 and roster, it's just like day and night. You cannot seriously considere Dixon and Datome as top players anymore, they're in total decline. Kalinic is lost for some time now. Derrick is light years behind Mirotic. How many minutes is Sloukas getting between, Delaney, Huertel and Pangos? Then you have Davies, Tomic/Vesely, Ahmet. the only advantage Fener has is Nando and even there Barca has great Higgins, who is close to Nando in offense and much better defender. And after all that you have incredible deep Barca's bench. I cannot see how can even normal Fener win against this Barca.
    previously known as Beno

  2. #142
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Republic of Panathinaikos
    Posts
    4,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    obradovic is stack in his 2000's tactics. we will be entering the 3rd decade of this millenium in 40 days. he is stack to his old fashioned screen after screen low pace pick n roll oriented game. thats past. game has evolved going more and more to 1 on 1 matchups. add to that the fact that fener players (i dont know if he is also) have not been paid for months and there you have it. he is also the typical serbian guy that will support his serbians (i wonder if stimac was the only available center in the world when he needed a center) and he is also stubborn enough to admit that he has failed this season and accept a possible transfer in mid season

    i thank him for what he offered to panathinaikos (still below than giannakopouloous that have been financially aided him with over 200million euros during his 13 years in the team) but he is not in the team right now so i have no reason to feel sympathy for him and his team and wishing him to recover from this situation. also i dont like fener and their fans so thats another reason i wish him all the worst this season, get eliminated from the qfs,lose the turkish league etc. who cares what he does when he is not coaching my team. after all he doesnt care about panathinaikos either and he shows that every time he comes to play at OAKA turning red from all the protesting to the refs,while sitting relaxed when his team get beaten at SEF by 20 or 30 points.

    karma is a bitch dear zoc
    You're talking smack about Zoc especially with the 2nd part of your post. He cares and loves Panathinaikos, their fans and the Giannakopoulos family. For crying out loud the man took time off work to fly in for the funerals of Pavlos and Thanasis only to return back to his work. He twice requested to be excused from a morning practices with Fener so he can be present and pass his condolences personally when he had all the excuses and reasons not too. For one of the two funerals I think Fener had a match day too.

    As for turning red from protesting to refs, he wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't. For 40 mins he battles for Fener's interests because that's his job. Anything less and he would be disrespecting Fener and the club that pays him.

    I really don't get to hate someone who's done so much for us with such a passion. I can understand going cold on him for leaving but you're letting out hate. It's not as if he went to Olympiakos.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  3. #143
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,581
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    You're talking smack about Zoc especially with the 2nd part of your post. He cares and loves Panathinaikos, their fans and the Giannakopoulos family. For crying out loud the man took time off work to fly in for the funerals of Pavlos and Thanasis only to return back to his work. He twice requested to be excused from a morning practices with Fener so he can be present and pass his condolences personally when he had all the excuses and reasons not too. For one of the two funerals I think Fener had a match day too.

    As for turning red from protesting to refs, he wouldn't be doing his job if we wasn't for 40 mins he battles for Fener's interests because that's his job. Anything less and he would be disrespecting Fener and the club that pays him.

    I really don't get someone to hate someone who's done so much for us with such a passion. I can understand going cold on him for leaving but you're letting out hate. It's not as if he went to Olympiakos.
    i dont hate him. i just dont care about him anymore as long as he is not coaching panathinaikos.

    as for the bold part. my problem is that i havent seen him turning red when playing against olympiakos. and there were multiple occasion this should have happened,it has happened in way less serious games. he was destroyed by 30 some years ago and he was sitting on his bench playing with his keys. plus i cant understand the fact that panathinaikos was playing to qualify for the f4 in 2017 and some fans were chanting his name and in general the arena's atmosphere was more like a summer friendly match rather than a crucial game.

    in conclusion idc if obradovic fails in fener. actually this year he looks way too vulnerable and close to panathinaikos dynamic and he will probably fight for the same spots as we will. so why should i hope he finds his way back which might be against my own team's good?
    Sasa Pukl for MVP

  4. #144
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Republic of Panathinaikos
    Posts
    4,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    i dont hate him. i just dont care about him anymore as long as he is not coaching panathinaikos.

    as for the bold part. my problem is that i havent seen him turning red when playing against olympiakos. and there were multiple occasion this should have happened,it has happened in way less serious games. he was destroyed by 30 some years ago and he was sitting on his bench playing with his keys. plus i cant understand the fact that panathinaikos was playing to qualify for the f4 in 2017 and some fans were chanting his name and in general the arena's atmosphere was more like a summer friendly match rather than a crucial game.

    in conclusion idc if obradovic fails in fener. actually this year he looks way too vulnerable and close to panathinaikos dynamic and he will probably fight for the same spots as we will. so why should i hope he finds his way back which might be against my own team's good?
    I've seen him play with his keys before when losing to Baskonia by 30 points at half time. I've seen him sitting down pretty much the whole 4th quarter in a game PAO was losing by 25 to Barca again with Itoudis doing the standing and giving instructions. It's probably a way for him to calm down and not burst a blood vessel when his players aren't doing what he's telling them.

    Ofcourse Fener now is a major opponent for us for a top 8 spot. I hope Maccabi fail, Khimki fails, Baskonia fails as well as Fener. I havent said the opposite. All I'm saying is how I would handle the situation. Do I feel sorry for him? No. Do i love him? Yes. Do I want him to fail this year? Yes. Do I want him back? If Pitino leaves, Yes.

    Nothing I say or claim here will change Fener's fate this year. I'm just another fan expressing his opinion. I probably know nothing. I only know what is visible, what is said in the press and rumors. I'm not in house, neither do I know the guy that owns the mini market opposite Zoc's house, nor a cousin's friend who know's one of the trainers to have inside info.

    At PAO after big losses or losses to lesser teams he would hold these massive torturous trainings session with workout and video which would sometime last 4-5 hours. Sometimes it had an effect, sometime it didnt. Does he/ has he done the same at Fener? Are the Fener players taking responsibility publically or not? PAO players would always take the responsibility saying they didn't do what the coaches asked them to do. Zoc on the other hand would never lay out a player to the vultures. He always supported his players 100% even when he told them "Picku materinu". Ask Lakovic, Becirovic, Scepanovic and Tepic. They know all about that. During a game Batiste and Winston were laughing not paying attention to a 30 point game we were winning. We conceed a basket, runs up to them and asks why Makedonikos scored. They stopped laughing. Went quiet and serious. "Ok. You laugh now. I laugh at training". The look on their faces was like he just told them he killed their mothers.
    Last edited by EverGreen; 11-21-2019 at 10:43 AM.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  5. #145
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,774
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I don' think Janketa's statement was that outrageous. On paper you could say it's a fair comment. With the Obradovic factor even more so but there a big suprises in sport sometimes. I don't even think a mad man could predict how bad Fener were going to be. I too felt Fener acquired well and had a good balance but you don't expect a whole group of players all playing their worst bar De Colo.

    I just think it's a case that Fener have been found out. Their game hasn't evolved from the last 4-5 years. Who is to blame? The coach obviously. I've said it before the same thing happened a couple times at PAO under Zoc. Nothing seems to be working in offence and the team was greatly dependent on the brilliance of Diamantidis to survive and win games but still with all the firepower we had at our disposal poor Partizan handed us our asses twice (2007-08 and 2009-10). PAO had a 30 mil budget then. Partizan barely 3-4 million (if that!). Ofcourse, the current format allows big budget clubs to recover but to recover you may need 1 or 2 new players and that is something Zoc despises. Attaining players midseason. It never worked at PAO. All that came left as failures or were just stop gap solutions for injuries and the list is very long namely: Tracy Murray, Brandon Hunter, Haris Mujezinovic, Jurica Golemac, Nikola Prkacin, Marcus Haislip. Even at Fener his mid-season signings have had little effect or have been trash like Jason Thompson, Anthony Bennett, Blagota Sekulic, Pierre Jackson and Eric Green.

    For Fener to get back on the road to victories, they need De Colo for starters. Then they need to get back to basics. The most basic of basics in to play defence. They didn't yesterday. They were constantly 2 paces behind the ball play of Barca. It's like they were constantly stuck in 2nd gear in offence. The Most suprising aspect in the game was that it looked over in the 1st quarter, heads were down constantly. Zoc was pacing, sitting down and looked completely out of morale. I've never seen him like that. The players were competely rudderless. Sloukas has shown in the last few games he cannot lead Fener. He simply isn't good enough.

    I'm not close to Fener to know what the situation is in regards to the relationship between Zoc and the players. If he's lost them or there are problems between the playing group. The most appropriate action of Ali Koc to do is tell the players that they need to wake up. If they don't Zoc has the authority to send players home. He must support Zoc 100% if he is to save the season. The players may be thinking "Oh, we have sh*t results. This usually means the coach gets sacked so f*ck it. Let him be sacked and we have another lifeline with a new coach.". Sorry but you don't sack the greatest coach of all time. You might tell him in the summer that it's time for a change in direction but you simply don't sack him.

    Look back a history. PAO had a disaster in 2009-10 in Europe. Knocked out in the 2nd group phase. In the summer we lose Spanoulis, Pekovic and Jasikevicius. Next season we win the EL again. The summer after that we lose Fotsis and Sato another 2 key players yet we reach the F4 and only go out to CSKA in the most scandalous of refereeing performances of all time after. leading pretty much the whole game. This team had dropped from 30 mil budget to 17-18 within 2 years yet Zoc was able to rebuild and put out a competitive team even with joke players like David Logan, Aleks Maric and Steve Smith as 3 of our 6 foreigners.

    PS I laugh at people that think that Zoc telling the players to "Go f*ck themselves" had/ has a negative impact. That means they have no idea how competitive sport works. I played football at local league level until I was 24 and the coaches would verbally abuse us constantly during games. Maybe it's a Balkan thing. This would get a rise out of us, it wouldn't upset us because we understood it was "heat of the moment stuff". The coach doesn't mean it. He wants you to respond because sweet words aren't working anymore. I remember when I was about 17-18 I had this coach that was constantly on my back. Constantly. Verbal abuse, shoving me etc. I made a private complaint one day about his behavior towards me. You know what he said? "I abuse you because I believe in you. You are good but not doing what your supposed to. If I didn't care about you, I would simply ignore you, you'd be out and I would tell you to find another team".
    Good analysis. Our problems are a case of Zoc trusting in some players despite last year, which proved him wrong so far (Vesely and Datome mainly, Lauvergne, Kalinic, Sloukas to some extent) and also our playstyle not working anymore. We cannot do switch defense because Vesely and Lauvergne can't stay in front of perimeter players, but we also cannot defend them with our guards because they suck at man defense (Sloukas, Westermann, Dixon on this age etc.). It feels like every opponent team just tries to abuse Sloukas' terrible defense from the tip-off. On the other hand, our offense is extremely stagnant, Sloukas tries to create but opponents focus on him. Other players look at the guy with the ball and don't move. Even De Colo had a hard time scoring due to this stagnant offense.

    Going forward, I believe sacking Zoc would be the biggest mistake we could make. He has 1 more year of contract iirc, but management should offer a new one and support him. After that we should do whatever we can to renovate the roster mid-season, which probably won't be too effective. Real cleanup would be on the summer regardless of how much we would improve during the regular season.
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  6. #146
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    7,649
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    ....Do I feel sorry for him? No. Do i love him? Yes. Do I want him to fail this year? Yes. Do I want him back? If Pitino leaves, Yes.
    if you have to make the decision today, would you prefer keeping Pitino or signing Obradovic at the end of the season?


    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    Going forward, I believe sacking Zoc would be the biggest mistake we could make. He has 1 more year of contract iirc, but management should offer a new one and support him. After that we should do whatever we can to renovate the roster mid-season, which probably won't be too effective. Real cleanup would be on the summer regardless of how much we would improve during the regular season.
    This would be smartest move, and Koc being as smart as he is, the most likely scenario imho. In the EL, you can put together a formidable roster in very short time, what you cannot do is to find the right coach.
    Last edited by Levenspiel; 11-21-2019 at 10:57 AM.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  7. #147
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,581
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    if you have to make the decision today, would you prefer keeping Pitino or signing Obradovic at the end of the season?
    panathinaikos should keep pitino until saras or itoudis might be available and willing to coach the team. right now they are both better than obradovic
    Sasa Pukl for MVP

  8. #148
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Republic of Panathinaikos
    Posts
    4,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post

    Going forward, I believe sacking Zoc would be the biggest mistake we could make. He has 1 more year of contract iirc, but management should offer a new one and support him. After that we should do whatever we can to renovate the roster mid-season, which probably won't be too effective. Real cleanup would be on the summer regardless of how much we would improve during the regular season.
    Ok so Zoc has 1 more season after this. To offer a contract renewal would be an act of empowerment but Zoc doesn't do contract negotiations mid season. Telling the players that Zoc will be coach again next year no matter Fener make the play off's or not would still suffice.

    If Fener make a change of coach now, they might get a response from the players for 2-3 games but soon they will fall back to their previous form. That's how I've seen it pan out over the years for most sports when a coach is sacked. Very seldom is the season saved.

    When Pitino joined us last year in his first training session, he told the players straight up " Dimitris didn't fire your previous coach but you did. I saw the videos. He's a great coach. You didn't do what he asked of you". He continued "When the coach gets sacked and the team still doesn't play, the next people that are sacked are the players. You won't be sacking me."
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  9. #149
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Republic of Panathinaikos
    Posts
    4,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    if you have to make the decision today, would you prefer keeping Pitino or signing Obradovic at the end of the season?
    God that's an awful question to ask. It's like asking me with one of my 2 daughters do I love the most but ok. I'll bite. I want either who will commit to a 3 year contract at season's end. If you ask me who I want coaching PAO next week it's Pitino because Zoc seems to be worn out by the drama at Fener. It's like he needs a month to get away from the kitchen and clear his mind. Pitino's is cleared after a 6 month break. If I had the choice to sign either for 3 years I would sign Pitino because he never finished the job he started last season which was building nicely.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  10. #150
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,430
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Will Giannakapoulos give him 30 million budget?

  11. #151
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,581
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Will Giannakapoulos give him 30 million budget?
    no he wont give that to anyone. but 2021 f4 might be held to athens and the budget will increase. this will be helped by tax reduction which is rumoured since the new goverment won the elections. right now panathinaikos budget is like 17-18 millions but the tax is 45% so the net for the salaries is 9-10 millions. rumours are the tax will drop to its previous state (20%) or a bit higher (25-30%). this might mean that a possible 20m budget allows the team to spend 12-13 million for players and coach. that way we can sign a top quality center which is our biggest problem every season and have calathes,center,fredette with contracts around 2 or more millions and still have budget to sign better players to surround these
    Sasa Pukl for MVP

  12. #152
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Republic of Panathinaikos
    Posts
    4,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Will Giannakapoulos give him 30 million budget?
    When DPG and Obradovic sat and spoke about renewing his contract, the budget was set at 8 million wages and all. Zoc said this is not enough to fight for the top. DPG said that will be the budget in the beginning which can increase another million in the season. This was too low a budget though Pedoulakis did well because he knows low market players well. Obradovic doesnt and it would have been hard for him to find bargain buys for 250K and 300K. PAO's budget these days in 15-16 mil. More than enough for Zoc to make a competitive team to fight for final 4 goal.

    The season zoc left we had contracts:

    Diamantidis 2 million
    Ukic 600K
    Bramos 200K
    Maciulis 350K
    Lasme 400K
    Tsartsaris 400K
    Gist 400K (swap with Panko)
    Armstrong 300K (sacked)
    Kitchen 250K (sacked)
    Schortsianitis (400K)

    then Kapono, Banks, Curry and Guinn were signed on monthly contracts for 20k-30k each month.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  13. #153
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,774
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    Ok so Zoc has 1 more season after this. To offer a contract renewal would be an act of empowerment but Zoc doesn't do contract negotiations mid season. Telling the players that Zoc will be coach again next year no matter Fener make the play off's or not would still suffice.

    If Fener make a change of coach now, they might get a response from the players for 2-3 games but soon they will fall back to their previous form. That's how I've seen it pan out over the years for most sports when a coach is sacked. Very seldom is the season saved.

    When Pitino joined us last year in his first training session, he told the players straight up " Dimitris didn't fire your previous coach but you did. I saw the videos. He's a great coach. You didn't do what he asked of you". He continued "When the coach gets sacked and the team still doesn't play, the next people that are sacked are the players. You won't be sacking me."
    I had thought he had 1 more year, but couldn't find info about it. I guess this is the last season of his current contract. We definitely need to offer a new one. One bad season (which could be better anyways) doesn't justify not renewing with such a successful and experienced coach, no matter his current form.
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  14. #154
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,430
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    I had thought he had 1 more year, but couldn't find info about it. I guess this is the last season of his current contract. We definitely need to offer a new one. One bad season (which could be better anyways) doesn't justify not renewing with such a successful and experienced coach, no matter his current form.
    The problem is not resigning him but the budget that he demands every season. The basketball branch of Fenerbahce gains around 10-12 millions lets say in a normal season, the rest was given by beko but as both President were saying this is not affordable for a long time, especially not if you fail that big so Koc will talk to him and decide then. A run somewhere and getting hope again in time would make everything easier.

    The problem right now are the big sallaries that some players gain and the signings. Fener needs someone who will question and report ZOC in the future and this italian must be fired immediately.

  15. #155
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,387

    Default

    Obra should get new contract and rebuild new team for the next season.
    Gerardini should be sacked. He is the biggest problem and except De Colo and Melli all transfers in past years were wrong. Every American player was mediocre but we pay them like stars. Renewal contracts with Dixon was a mistake too. We need top pg instead of him and Biberovic as naturalised player.

    This season is over in terms of title, like I said 3 rounds ago. But this season could be used for preparing for the next season.

  16. #156
    Senior Member Cuneyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,559
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I don' think Janketa's statement was that outrageous. On paper you could say it's a fair comment. With the Obradovic factor even more so but there a big suprises in sport sometimes. I don't even think a mad man could predict how bad Fener were going to be. I too felt Fener acquired well and had a good balance but you don't expect a whole group of players all playing their worst bar De Colo.

    I just think it's a case that Fener have been found out. Their game hasn't evolved from the last 4-5 years. Who is to blame? The coach obviously. I've said it before the same thing happened a couple times at PAO under Zoc. Nothing seems to be working in offence and the team was greatly dependent on the brilliance of Diamantidis to survive and win games but still with all the firepower we had at our disposal poor Partizan handed us our asses twice (2007-08 and 2009-10). PAO had a 30 mil budget then. Partizan barely 3-4 million (if that!). Ofcourse, the current format allows big budget clubs to recover but to recover you may need 1 or 2 new players and that is something Zoc despises. Attaining players midseason. It never worked at PAO. All that came left as failures or were just stop gap solutions for injuries and the list is very long namely: Tracy Murray, Brandon Hunter, Haris Mujezinovic, Jurica Golemac, Nikola Prkacin, Marcus Haislip. Even at Fener his mid-season signings have had little effect or have been trash like Jason Thompson, Anthony Bennett, Blagota Sekulic, Pierre Jackson and Eric Green.

    For Fener to get back on the road to victories, they need De Colo for starters. Then they need to get back to basics. The most basic of basics in to play defence. They didn't yesterday. They were constantly 2 paces behind the ball play of Barca. It's like they were constantly stuck in 2nd gear in offence. The Most suprising aspect in the game was that it looked over in the 1st quarter, heads were down constantly. Zoc was pacing, sitting down and looked completely out of morale. I've never seen him like that. The players were competely rudderless. Sloukas has shown in the last few games he cannot lead Fener. He simply isn't good enough.

    I'm not close to Fener to know what the situation is in regards to the relationship between Zoc and the players. If he's lost them or there are problems between the playing group. The most appropriate action of Ali Koc to do is tell the players that they need to wake up. If they don't Zoc has the authority to send players home. He must support Zoc 100% if he is to save the season. The players may be thinking "Oh, we have sh*t results. This usually means the coach gets sacked so f*ck it. Let him be sacked and we have another lifeline with a new coach.". Sorry but you don't sack the greatest coach of all time. You might tell him in the summer that it's time for a change in direction but you simply don't sack him.

    Look back a history. PAO had a disaster in 2009-10 in Europe. Knocked out in the 2nd group phase. In the summer we lose Spanoulis, Pekovic and Jasikevicius. Next season we win the EL again. The summer after that we lose Fotsis and Sato another 2 key players yet we reach the F4 and only go out to CSKA in the most scandalous of refereeing performances of all time after. leading pretty much the whole game. This team had dropped from 30 mil budget to 17-18 within 2 years yet Zoc was able to rebuild and put out a competitive team even with joke players like David Logan, Aleks Maric and Steve Smith as 3 of our 6 foreigners.

    PS I laugh at people that think that Zoc telling the players to "Go f*ck themselves" had/ has a negative impact. That means they have no idea how competitive sport works. I played football at local league level until I was 24 and the coaches would verbally abuse us constantly during games. Maybe it's a Balkan thing. This would get a rise out of us, it wouldn't upset us because we understood it was "heat of the moment stuff". The coach doesn't mean it. He wants you to respond because sweet words aren't working anymore. I remember when I was about 17-18 I had this coach that was constantly on my back. Constantly. Verbal abuse, shoving me etc. I made a private complaint one day about his behavior towards me. You know what he said? "I abuse you because I believe in you. You are good but not doing what your supposed to. If I didn't care about you, I would simply ignore you, you'd be out and I would tell you to find another team".
    Best comment for Fenerbahçe so far. Can not agree more.

  17. #157
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Thanks for nice words. Were we talking about this season or a what a normal form should be? Datome and Dixon are in obvious decline and Vesely never was serious basketball player, he can flourished only in a great system. Good role player, but unfortunately there is no system for him this year. Sloukas is as average player as it gets. Williams is typical American made for small teams. And don’t forget that Barca is still playing without both Pgs. They will be only better in the end of the season.
    I don't want to insult anyone, especially not you. So, it's not insult just reminder of what we were talking. I never said that Fener roster is better then Barca.

    I don't have problem to admit if I am wrong, so yes, I was wrong.

    I said starting five of Barca isn't too much better then Fener because Sloukas, Datome and Vesely were part of the team that was dominant last regular season and now it's De Colo here. So, it's logical for anyone that such starting five couldn't be too much worse. But when we are talking about current form, then we are much worse then not just Barca but half of El teams.

  18. #158
    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    514
    Country: Finland

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post

    I just think it's a case that Fener have been found out. Their game hasn't evolved from the last 4-5 years. Who is to blame? The coach obviously. I've said it before the same thing happened a couple times at PAO under Zoc. Nothing seems to be working in offence and the team was greatly dependent on the brilliance of Diamantidis to survive and win games but still with all the firepower we had at our disposal poor Partizan handed us our asses twice (2007-08 and 2009-10). PAO had a 30 mil budget then. Partizan barely 3-4 million (if that!). Ofcourse, the current format allows big budget clubs to recover but to recover you may need 1 or 2 new players and that is something Zoc despises. Attaining players midseason. It never worked at PAO. All that came left as failures or were just stop gap solutions for injuries and the list is very long namely: Tracy Murray, Brandon Hunter, Haris Mujezinovic, Jurica Golemac, Nikola Prkacin, Marcus Haislip. Even at Fener his mid-season signings have had little effect or have been trash like Jason Thompson, Anthony Bennett, Blagota Sekulic, Pierre Jackson and Eric Green.

    For Fener to get back on the road to victories, they need De Colo for starters. Then they need to get back to basics. The most basic of basics in to play defence. They didn't yesterday. They were constantly 2 paces behind the ball play of Barca. It's like they were constantly stuck in 2nd gear in offence. The Most suprising aspect in the game was that it looked over in the 1st quarter, heads were down constantly. Zoc was pacing, sitting down and looked completely out of morale. I've never seen him like that. The players were competely rudderless. Sloukas has shown in the last few games he cannot lead Fener. He simply isn't good enough.

    I'm not close to Fener to know what the situation is in regards to the relationship between Zoc and the players. If he's lost them or there are problems between the playing group. The most appropriate action of Ali Koc to do is tell the players that they need to wake up. If they don't Zoc has the authority to send players home. He must support Zoc 100% if he is to save the season. The players may be thinking "Oh, we have sh*t results. This usually means the coach gets sacked so f*ck it. Let him be sacked and we have another lifeline with a new coach.". Sorry but you don't sack the greatest coach of all time. You might tell him in the summer that it's time for a change in direction but you simply don't sack him.
    I agree with most that you said, but Jason Thompson wasn't mid-season addition. He played from the start of the season, very bad unfortunately.

    Team spirit is the most important thing in club success. De Colo and Williams are excellent players, TOP SG and TOP PF, but they came in team that slowly lose their shape and building chemistry between new players and the rest of team is not a easy task for any coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I mostly agree with you. But comparing Barca's starting 5 and roster, it's just like day and night. You cannot seriously considere Dixon and Datome as top players anymore, they're in total decline. Kalinic is lost for some time now. Derrick is light years behind Mirotic. How many minutes is Sloukas getting between, Delaney, Huertel and Pangos? Then you have Davies, Tomic/Vesely, Ahmet. the only advantage Fener has is Nando and even there Barca has great Higgins, who is close to Nando in offense and much better defender. And after all that you have incredible deep Barca's bench. I cannot see how can even normal Fener win against this Barca.
    Heurtel is long term out, so no Heurtel AND Delaney, only Heurtel OR Delaney. Delaney is replacement for Heurtel.

  19. #159
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,774
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    The problem is not resigning him but the budget that he demands every season. The basketball branch of Fenerbahce gains around 10-12 millions lets say in a normal season, the rest was given by beko but as both President were saying this is not affordable for a long time, especially not if you fail that big so Koc will talk to him and decide then. A run somewhere and getting hope again in time would make everything easier.

    The problem right now are the big sallaries that some players gain and the signings. Fener needs someone who will question and report ZOC in the future and this italian must be fired immediately.
    It's not him demanding the budget, it is the competition. Yes, you can reach the final four with a 10m budget on a given year but it is not sustainable. Not when Madrid, CSKA, Barça, Milano etc. all spend more or close 30m. Also I don't give a fuck about basketball team not turning in a profit - not when football team spends 80m in players and can't even be champions in Turkey in 5 years. First they should fix that.

    Firing Gherardini would probably be the second worst thing we could do. I agree that we should have been more ruthless while renewing with players, and Gherardini probably trusted Obradovic while renewing with them. But despite these errors there are many good things Gherardini did. I don't believe it is likely a Euroleague team can easily have a better GM.
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  20. #160
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,387

    Default

    If some EL team want win titles then don't hire Gherardini. Messina was too smart to make such mistake

Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •