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Thread: Euroleague Regular Season: Week 6

  1. #141
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    i dont see fener out from playoffs. at that time, fener will be an hard beast for any team

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    Wow! Fener continues to amaze!
    Why not Zalgiris continues to amaze? In the first Saras's season they got to f4, in the next one you could think greens won't get to play off, but they made a come back and got there, and after the last game you can see Zalgiris still can amaze.

    As for Fener, they will amaze only if they keep losing for a while more. What if they wouldn't make a steal signing De Colo in summer? Looking how other players look it Fener really could amaze.

  3. #143
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I am asking myself is it possible that Guduric-Melli are that much better then De Colo-Williams.
    This is the only significant change in the roster comparing to last season.

    Considering that De Colo is better player and scorer then Guduric, is Melli that much better then Williams? Seems that he was something like glue for this team and he filled all gaps that are obvious now.

  4. #144
    Senior Member edvinas9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    I am asking myself is it possible that Guduric-Melli are that much better then De Colo-Williams.
    This is the only significant change in the roster comparing to last season.

    Considering that De Colo is better player and scorer then Guduric, is Melli that much better then Williams? Seems that he was something like glue for this team and he filled all gaps that are obvious now.
    I haven't watched a lot of Fener games lately, but it is obvious that Williams had more space to engage his offensive abilities in Bayern. Obradovic uses him only as a stretch-four player to spread the floor. Having Vesely and Sloukas out of their shape as well, it would be naive to expect W while the team is carried mostly by the one French offensive superstar.
    Last edited by edvinas9; 11-04-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    Got it, mate. I was checking the forum with my infant baby on my lap , couldn't pay full attention.

    Unlike most of the forum, I think Calathes is great as the core piece, and you have a few flashy names. but when I see Thomas as important as he is, I by reflex downgrade my expectations. Congratulations on the win.
    Congrats for the baby man!
    Tomas is important because he is overall very effective although he never was a "heavy name". Since Pitino's arrival he raised his performance and he keeps going the same way until now.

  6. #146
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    Why not Zalgiris continues to amaze? In the first Saras's season they got to f4, in the next one you could think greens won't get to play off, but they made a come back and got there, and after the last game you can see Zalgiris still can amaze.

    As for Fener, they will amaze only if they keep losing for a while more. What if they wouldn't make a steal signing De Colo in summer? Looking how other players look it Fener really could amaze.
    The 3-3 record of Zalgiris is less "amazing" than the 1-5 record of Fener,.

  7. #147
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    If Fener scrapes the 8 taking 7th or 8th spot, I can tell you now that teams will be tripping over themselves to AVOID Zoc's team at all cost. They still possess the heart of a champion. Seriously, where hasn't Fener won?

    Anyway, I still think Fener will make the 8 and will not be making up the numbers. Too many classy players and Europe's greatest fox still on the bench.

    I can't believe some comments that maybe his time is up at Fener. The time might be up for some players or a playing style. Zoc will change both if need be. You simply don't find a coach like Zoc every day. Just look at Barca who have steadily had one of the biggest budgets in the last 5 years, at times bigger than Fener and they fail constantly because they can't find the right coach. Just because you have a big budget, doen't guarantee a F4 spot.

    Yeah, you have a crisis. All clubs go through a crisis. It's just your turn. It's the nature of sport and life in general.

    PS I remember Fener fans whinging about Zoc after his 1st year failure in Europe. Or losing the league title to Karsiyaka and I was telling them then, PATIENCE. He will make a team out of you yet.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  8. #148
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    Congrats for the baby! Is it your first?
    Thank you. Yes it is, obvious isn't it? But I want more of these.

    @markkanen, Jazz, Worrax, Adon, thank you very much.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  9. #149
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    Thank you. Yes it is, obvious isn't it? But I want more of these.

    @markkanen, Jazz, Worrax, Adon, thank you very much.
    Mashallah. I wish your baby health and luck in life.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  10. #150
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    Mashallah. I wish your baby health and luck in life.
    Thank you, mate. I appreciate it.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  11. #151
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    If Fener scrapes the 8 taking 7th or 8th spot, I can tell you now that teams will be tripping over themselves to AVOID Zoc's team at all cost. They still possess the heart of a champion. Seriously, where hasn't Fener won?

    Anyway, I still think Fener will make the 8 and will not be making up the numbers. Too many classy players and Europe's greatest fox still on the bench.

    I can't believe some comments that maybe his time is up at Fener. The time might be up for some players or a playing style. Zoc will change both if need be. You simply don't find a coach like Zoc every day. Just look at Barca who have steadily had one of the biggest budgets in the last 5 years, at times bigger than Fener and they fail constantly because they can't find the right coach. Just because you have a big budget, doen't guarantee a F4 spot.

    Yeah, you have a crisis. All clubs go through a crisis. It's just your turn. It's the nature of sport and life in general.

    PS I remember Fener fans whinging about Zoc after his 1st year failure in Europe. Or losing the league title to Karsiyaka and I was telling them then, PATIENCE. He will make a team out of you yet.
    This. No one in their right mind would take Fener lightly come PO time, or would think of sacking Zoc. I see a few loud Fener journalists demanding that, but I don't think their president would allow it.

    Fener will be fine, it's enough to take a quick look at the roster. They will fix the roles and their chemistry. and it is even better to get better in time than starting strong and deflating towards the end, as last year.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    If Fener scrapes the 8 taking 7th or 8th spot, I can tell you now that teams will be tripping over themselves to AVOID Zoc's team at all cost. They still possess the heart of a champion. Seriously, where hasn't Fener won?

    Anyway, I still think Fener will make the 8 and will not be making up the numbers. Too many classy players and Europe's greatest fox still on the bench.

    I can't believe some comments that maybe his time is up at Fener. The time might be up for some players or a playing style. Zoc will change both if need be. You simply don't find a coach like Zoc every day. Just look at Barca who have steadily had one of the biggest budgets in the last 5 years, at times bigger than Fener and they fail constantly because they can't find the right coach. Just because you have a big budget, doen't guarantee a F4 spot.

    Yeah, you have a crisis. All clubs go through a crisis. It's just your turn. It's the nature of sport and life in general.

    PS I remember Fener fans whinging about Zoc after his 1st year failure in Europe. Or losing the league title to Karsiyaka and I was telling them then, PATIENCE. He will make a team out of you yet.
    In order to improve the team significantly he would need at least a dominating center, most of his victories arrived when he managed to exploit them.

    Sabonis, Rebraca, Batiste, Pekovic, Udoh.

    Vesely isn't the right c for a comeback.

  13. #153
    Senior Member Cuneyt's Avatar
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    Hahahhaaaa...season is over for Fenerbahçe? hahhahhahhahahaa

    Seriously guys, you are truly amazing!!!

    Win three in a row and you claim Fenerbahçe can not be beaten even by NBA Champs or dream team...lose a few and the season is over!

    You manage to be arrogant even when we are losing. It is a pity.

    Look, there are many reasons for the bad start, and yes it is just an unexpected bad start.
    1. The big guys have been injured for months and have not trained with the team until recently.
    2. Many NT players have been away and have not trained with the team.
    3. Fenerbahçe has hundred and some sets and it is not easy for newcomers to learn. Westermann, D.Williams, and even deColo are struggling with the sets and "lose" their opponent in defense and when one fail, the whole team defense fails. (surely they will adapt)
    4. Sloukas and DeColo have not managed to co-exist (but they will)
    5. Datome, Kalinic, Melih etc. are having a low form situation (but will get better)

    If you think the season will go like this, I must say you are deranged. Fenerbahçe will be much better.

    Now, is that enough? THAT, is the question.
    I think Milan and Barca at the moment, are above this league and they will too get even better. That leaves CSKA Real and Fenerbahçe for the remaining top spots for the home court advantage. I believe MTA and Efes will push for those spots as well. Teams qualifying 7th and 8th will have a very tough job for the F4. So we must finish the league 6th at worst to have a chance.

    I believe we will.

  14. #154
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    In regards to having 100 so sets, I don't beleive that is the case. I don't think that Zoc would use that many.

    When Pitino came to PAO last year he asked the assistant coaches how many sets we have and they told him with variations of some sets, close to 100. He responded that that was ridiculous. The players brains turn to mash with so many. He told them to chose 15 of those, he would add another 5 and the team would focus on them and them only. That's how we came back to qualify for the top 8 at the end.

    I agree with pretty much everything else you say.
    Last edited by EverGreen; 11-05-2019 at 07:30 AM.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  15. #155
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    a greek journalist (kavalieratos) yesterday said that the reason ataman was furious with micic was that the serbian went out for some drinks in athens the day before the match. greek journalists are clowns and not trustworthy but i'll just leave that here.

    btw micic might just be a panathinaikos fan. he has always been bad against panathinaikos with every team he has played so far against us. in all games,both home and away
    Sasa Pukl for MVP

  16. #156
    Senior Member Cuneyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    In regards to having 100 so sets, I don't beleive that is the case. I don't think that Zoc would use that many.

    When Pitino came to PAO last year he asked the assistant coaches how many sets we have and they told him with variations of some sets, close to 100. He responded that that was ridiculous. The players brains turn to mash with so many. He told them to chose 15 of those, he would add another 5 and the team would focus on them and them only. That's how we came back to qualify for the top 8 at the end.

    I agree with pretty much everything else you say.
    Both of us are right actually.

    In an interview in 2017 (https://www.basketfaul.com/haber?haber=63216) the interviewer asked Obradovic just this:

    - How many sets does Fenerbahçe have?

    - I don't know, at least 100

    - A hundred?

    - Yes, at least. I don't know the exact number. I have ask the assistant coaches. BUT before the game you pick within those. Maybe 10 sets and special sets for sidelines and after timeout sets. Of course they must be easy to remember for the players, because it is impossible to remember all.

    - It is a surprise for me to hear ONE HUNDRED.

    - Definitely, at least that.



    Of course for that spesific game they pick maybe 15, but if these match spesific sets change game by game, it would be confusing especially for new players. I am not stuck on a number but I believe part of Fenerbahçe's woes come from the fact that some players (especially new players) are struggling with the sets and lose the player they are defending. This causes a collapse at times in the team defense.

    But I agree with you that it is proposterous to think FB uses 100 sets in a game.

  17. #157
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    We are in agreement. These sets change depending on their effectiveness. Teams will scout you and after a while a specific set may be easily read and countered by the opposition. Essentially a team over the space of a season may use up to 100 but still this figure is too big. Teams usually take and 2-3 new sets with them for each game.

    Dusan Ivkovic with the use of Joey Dorsey broke down PAO's pick n' roll sets (3D or Saras and Batiste) and we struggled to find an equally effective way to score relatively easily. When Calathes was on court Oly would give him free shots and we were trapped if he missed. Oly won the play off's and title that year in 2011-2012.

    One thing I remember was Obradovic never shouting at Calathes when he missed. He would always tell him : "Shoot when you are alone. Don't hesitate if there is no clear pass. If you miss it's my problem. Not yours".
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuneyt View Post
    Hahahhaaaa...season is over for Fenerbahçe? hahhahhahhahahaa

    Seriously guys, you are truly amazing!!!

    Win three in a row and you claim Fenerbahçe can not be beaten even by NBA Champs or dream team...lose a few and the season is over!

    You manage to be arrogant even when we are losing. It is a pity.

    Look, there are many reasons for the bad start, and yes it is just an unexpected bad start.
    1. The big guys have been injured for months and have not trained with the team until recently.
    2. Many NT players have been away and have not trained with the team.
    3. Fenerbahçe has hundred and some sets and it is not easy for newcomers to learn. Westermann, D.Williams, and even deColo are struggling with the sets and "lose" their opponent in defense and when one fail, the whole team defense fails. (surely they will adapt)
    4. Sloukas and DeColo have not managed to co-exist (but they will)
    5. Datome, Kalinic, Melih etc. are having a low form situation (but will get better)

    If you think the season will go like this, I must say you are deranged. Fenerbahçe will be much better.

    Now, is that enough? THAT, is the question.
    I think Milan and Barca at the moment, are above this league and they will too get even better. That leaves CSKA Real and Fenerbahçe for the remaining top spots for the home court advantage. I believe MTA and Efes will push for those spots as well. Teams qualifying 7th and 8th will have a very tough job for the F4. So we must finish the league 6th at worst to have a chance.

    I believe we will.
    That the season is not over especially for rich teams is taken for granted and no one claimed the opposite.

    This shouldn't be an impediment for judging what we have seen till now.

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