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Thread: Francis Lopez thread

  1. #361
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    Stop with the he can play this position none sense. It wont matter if it’s not the players best natural position the maximizes his strengths and lessens his weaknesses

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalsuperman View Post
    i disagree with magsanoc. i think in the youth level, AJ Edu should be the most promising big man next to Kai.
    Perhaps Magsanoc meant Filipino "homegrown" big man. As we are aware of, AJ Edu was born & raised abroad.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadzki View Post
    Ronnie Magsanoc and most of our local coaches are still with the old dogs logic, Carl Tamayo is at best 6'7" inches and in today's basketball that is not a big man, Hopefully Tamayo trains and play abroad to reach his potential as an off -guard or a small forward because basing on Magsanoc's comment he will be playing a lot of PF, C if he stays in the Philippines.
    In world level, yes I agree with you. But in Asian or make that Asia-Pacific level, I think 6-foot-7 isn't a bad size "four". I think the "fours" of Iran, Lebanon, S. Korea, Jordan, are just within the 6-foot-7 to 6-foot-8 ceiling.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Perhaps Magsanoc meant Filipino "homegrown" big man. As we are aware of, AJ Edu was born & raised abroad.
    nope. no context was mentioned.
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  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    In world level, yes I agree with you. But in Asian or make that Asia-Pacific level, I think 6-foot-7 isn't a bad size "four". I think the "fours" of Iran, Lebanon, S. Korea, Jordan, are just within the 6-foot-7 to 6-foot-8 ceiling.
    Scola, Green, Hayes, Farried, Harrell, Gomes etc were all 6'8 and below but were successful in the modern NBA. If you can you can play.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Killer View Post
    3-5.. 2? nope..
    Actually in the modern game to maximise his strength advantages it is 5, that is his best position. Also this is still where Gilas can use him most. He is a better defensive center than Kai (I know I will get blasted for being sac religious here),, but it's what I see

    It's this simple if Simmons or Giannis were Filipino, I would use them at 5 and put shooters around them, paring a talent like that with a slow big is not maximizing our strength advantage and will clog the lane for a talent like Giannis to operate
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  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatweirdguy View Post
    Scola, Green, Hayes, Farried, Harrell, Gomes etc were all 6'8 and below but were successful in the modern NBA. If you can you can play.
    And on that point Harrel (undersize) is actually most effective when you play him at center, never do the the Clippers use Harrel with another center like Zubac, that would be counter effective
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  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Actually in the modern game to maximise his strength advantages it is 5, that is his best position. Also this is still where Gilas can use him most. He is a better defensive center than Kai (I know I will get blasted for being sac religious here),, but it's what I see

    It's this simple if Simmons or Giannis were Filipino, I would use them at 5 and put shooters around them, paring a talent like that with a slow big is not maximizing our strength advantage and will clog the lane for a talent like Giannis to operate
    Pairing him with Kai (doesn’t matter the position, talking about PF/C) will be the best advantage for us. Both can stretch the floor and also post up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatweirdguy View Post
    Scola, Green, Hayes, Farried, Harrell, Gomes etc were all 6'8 and below but were successful in the modern NBA. If you can you can play.
    Right amount of athleticism,strength and skill.Farried might not be very skilled but he is very athletic in NBA standards while Scola might got dunked on by Norwood but i think he has enough hops to dunk in a game plus he is not only very skilled but very smart.Scola for his size has quick feet and has good footwork as well,aside from the fact that he is an excellent post player and very efficient.When he was younger,he can play above the rim,well i still think he could dunk if really wants to.Another thing when you are a 6'7-6'8 power forward is length.Harell i think has 7'2-7'3 wingspan.A lengthy wingspan may give a player advantage against tall opposition specially when the player knows how to get position when getting the rebounds and the tolerance to absorb the physical play in the post.

    Last edited by Alex07; 01-16-2020 at 02:51 PM.
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  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenoloxy View Post
    Pairing him with Kai (doesn’t matter the position, talking about PF/C) will be the best advantage for us. Both can stretch the floor and also post up.
    Can play the position or both together does not necessarily mean it's best use of them. Do note the modern game where most (80%)PF (4s)in the NBA and Europe are actually natural small forwards, the game has changed
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  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Can play the position or both together does not necessarily mean it's best use of them. Do note the modern game where most (80%)PF (4s)in the NBA and Europe are actually natural small forwards, the game has changed
    sorry for the OT but sir what do you think of these comments by Barcelona coach Svetislav Pesic?

    “In basketball, if you want to change rhythm, to play transition or position, you cannot change rhythm on offense, but on defense. Then you can take initiative on offense and play fast break, controlled basketball or long plays. That’s how it’s done in Europe. It’s not like the NBA which is not basketball,” Pesic said in the post-game presser following the road win of Barcelona over Olimpia Milano. The Serbian coach had been asked if the game plan for the Blaugrana was to reduce the number of Milano‘s fast-paced offenses.

    Pesic proceeded to describe EuroLeague as the competition that has “the best basketball in the world today” while commenting on the often high-scoring NBA results in mocking undertone.

    “Every night or morning if you see the NBA results, it’s 129-119, or 122-120, 120-115 etc. Everybody celebrates, everybody is happy. Anyway. The best basketball in the world today is in EuroLeague,” Pesic added.

    “In Euroleague, you can see everything,” Pesic explained. “You can see defense, you can see offense, you can see tactics, 3-pointers dunking, creation of the game. Everything. What we didn’t have in Europe until now is that we didn’t ‘sell’ our basketball very good, like in the NBA. We didn’t learn how to sell our product in Europe.”

    SOURCE: https://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurolea...ot-basketball/
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  12. #372
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    ^
    I've actually read that the other day, the casual fan does not understand it, and think he's suggesting European players are better than NBA, that's not what he is saying.. what he's saying the tactical game in Europe both defensively and offensively is more advanced, it is true, the NBA game is more of a game of individual match ups, while European is the collective game. That is why the thinking of Kai and AJ playing together for the casual fan seems to mean it's better because you have two very talented individuals who can play Center and PF, it however isn't collectively maximizing their talent.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    ^
    I've actually read that the other day, the casual fan does not understand it, and think he's suggesting European players are better than NBA, that's not what he is saying.. what he's saying the tactical game in Europe both defensively and offensively is more advanced, it is true, the NBA game is more of a game of individual match ups, while European is the collective game. That is why the thinking of Kai and AJ playing together for the casual fan seems to mean it's better because you have two very talented individuals who can play Center and PF, it however isn't collectively maximizing their talent.
    How would you use Aj or Kai then?

  14. #374
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    not to speak for him but I think he already mentioned that AJ is better off deployed as a 5. so basically he and Kai wold alternate at center. Personally I think that would be exposed by the heftier bigs of West Asia (the bulky Iranians and the athletic Afro-Qataris) but the general idea is utilizing the quickness advantage
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  15. #375
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    Modern basketball is all about the matchups. It has evolved but it didn't throw the basics out the window. You can see Dwight/McGee alongside Davis, Gasol playing with Ibaka, Jokic paired with Plumlee, Lopez with Giannis, Porzingis-Powell, Adebayo-Leonard, Embiid-Horford, etc. Point is, 2 bigs still works and it is all about the matchups.

    Trend now is either hit the 3ball or attack the paint. If a team could defend that by using a 2 big combo, then why not. Almost every successful NBA team have that one traditional big that they deploy to counter (or initiate) a big lineup. That said, staggering Kai and Edu's minutes is simply depriving our team a potent combination that could pose problems for opposing coaches.

    To be clear, I am not advocating that they'd be used together for a huge bulk of the playing minutes, although I am not against the idea either. They could sub each other with say, a 10-15 minutes overlap (together on the floor), or straight alternates as others suggest. What I am saying is, we play the matchups, either as initiators or reactors. There really is no surefire formula as to what would work and what would not. Basketball after all, is a chess match.
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  16. #376
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    I agree with NoiNu. It really depends on our opponents. Personally I still think a Kai and Edu pairing will work the best especially against Asian teams. We have the size and quickness to have decent big lineup on the floor.

  17. #377
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    Obviously much of how we use Kai and AJ is dependent on the quality of a big forward (at least 6'7) we have at our disposal, if its a NP and good player (Jolibee) , then yes I see Kai and AJ alternating at center and playing with that big NP forward most of the time, with limited min playing AJ and Kai together
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  18. #378
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    Note 3 men are purely wings, not big forwards like Troy or maybe Jolibee, the SF who interchangable with SG are the Clarkson's, Dwight, Kobe, Thirdy, Dave Wright, Parks etc which we have an abundance off. Spacing and movement fluidity is critical. Just like OKCs best perimeter line up is a 3 guard line up of CP3, Shroeder and Shai (not SF Fergusson) and its best 4 is a SF like player in Galinari.
    It's best use of space and pace..
    BTW OKCs 3 guard line up with Calinari and Adams is statistically the best 5 in NBA currently (Plus, minus rating when on court)

    Additionally the verdict is still out on how long we can afford to use Kai to defend pick and roll basketball
    Last edited by analyzed; 01-17-2020 at 07:36 PM.
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  19. #379
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    Sorry Reposting here, serious question, in real implementation how much time has Japeth really played forward (even big forward) for either Ginerbra or Gilas (note even with Blatche it's Blatche outside and Japeth inside).
    . The thing is Japeth has forever been listed as a PF, but in reality plays little to no PF at all.
    Perceived position is different from actual practice

    Note AJ played zero minutes at PF in his freshman year with Toledo (Div1)

    Does Japeth and Greg even play together, when has that happened for at least 10 minutes in a game? Note does Ginerbra have a better local PF than Japeth? If not, whys he not playing PF?

    And this from a coach Tim Cone who I know likes playing big

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Note 3 men are purely wings, not big forwards like Troy or maybe Jolibee, the SF who interchangable with SG are the Clarkson's, Dwight, Kobe, Thirdy, Dave Wright, Parks etc which we have an abundance off. Spacing and movement fluidity is critical. Just like OKCs best perimeter line up is a 3 guard line up of CP3, Shroeder and Shai (not SF Fergusson) and its best 4 is a SF like player in Galinari.
    It's best use of space and pace..
    BTW OKCs 3 guard line up with Calinari and Adams is statistically the best 5 in NBA currently (Plus, minus rating when on court)

    Additionally the verdict is still out on how long we can afford to use Kai to defend pick and roll basketball
    Lol Gallinari’s being a 3 was a thing of the past. Although he still can play the position, he is now a bonafide stretch 4. This post of yours doesn’t prove anything as to why Kai and Edu should be alternating and not playing together. It only proves OKC has a good small ball lineup.

    This early, both players already have a 3 in their arsenal. This early, both players can play the perimeter and have shown to be capable slashers and finishers in attacking closeouts. This early, both players have shown they can run the floor well and are far from being lumbering bigs. Go figure how’d they be in the future.

    The concern of Kai not being able to defend the PnR further validates the need for him to be paired with an agile rim defender like Edu. This would enable Kai to switch and close out hard without worrying much there’s no longer rim protection in the paint. It’s always nice to have one shotblocker on the floor. Now imagine having two. A luxury, ain’t it?

    Every lineup has its advantages and disadvantages RELATIVE TO THE OPPOSITION. Your claim that playing them together isn’t maximizing their talent is only your opinion and shouldn’t be offered as some naked truth. Casual fans or not, the idea of playing Kai and Edu together has its merits.
    Never look too far ahead. You might stumble on a block right in front of you.

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