2020 Lithuanian NT: in a chase of Olympic dream

[Straight forward]

I agree. Team Lietuva 2020 is already overstocked at the high post with three natural centers - Jonas Valančiūnas, Domantas Sabonis and Artūras Gudaitis. Why add another one who brings locker room discord with him?

The answer is simple. As a basketball country we still have shortsighted fans and weak coaching section. Even if younger generations due to internet and constant readings of NBA sources and such have better understanding of global basketball, our fans as the mass is very outdated and provincial. Some of our mid generation (let's say) coaches, experts like Rutenis Paulauskas have atrocious and limited understanding about global basketball and still relies on very limited, old school knowledge and experience, some of his statements are illiterate in BB world, specially when it goes beyond LKL and EL circles. I'm hopeful though, Saras sets a great example and internet will grow new wiser masses of BB fans. F.e. I could go argue with tons of JV's fans till the fits fight if I would go for that, with those who treat him as new golden boy or some the guy who inevitably should lead us to victories and medals, but only few caught that in three four years he became pretty much a dying breed, barely playable in both NBA and FIBA. If not some ESPN and other analytical projections, those fans would think I'm just a weirdo who decided to bash their hero, but those who actually observe BB game and follow the changes, read articles, are able to put off their yellow, green, red glasses (even worse one colour glasses) and to analyse NT critically and to kill their darlings if that's best for the team. To sum up, just as society overall, we are young and immature BB nation as well. If not Jasikevicius, the picture would be very very bleak, it's so nice that he brings all that culture.

With that said, Maksvytis didn't say he will invite D-Mo. He said the decision is not yet made, but obviously he indicated that their relationships are good.

[Mindozas]

Yeah, I agree. I think Dainius Adomaitis got a bum rap from the start but it is what it is. It seemed to be a marriage made in hell and it was not to be.

He came at wrong time, to change one of the all-time greatest Kazlauskas. It was impossible to fill his shoes. Another thing was elections, the most wanted coach by masses was Kurtinaitis, but when Adomaitis was chosen obviously those negative responses appeared. None cared that players decision was very important factor, to hate was sweeter. Then bad result in 2017, conflict with D-Mo after it, latter obviously had more fans and support. And finally becoming Rytas coach in 2018 - it was last nail into his coffin. It doesn't take science to know that Rytas is easily the most hated club in LT. These grey masses of fans simply killed him. At times it felt like some are waiting for failure to spread the sh*t out on coach, the situation I hardly remember ever. Sick. I don't mean IBN here, just general situation in LT, people love to hate. While we played fine during his stint, lot of bball related people admit it, Saras was the last one, but results weren't there. But some were unsatisfied even when results there were, but we played ugly (Kazlas days), were always complaining that this is not our basketball school... Had some hot discussions about that back in the days, especially when I wrote that this is the only way to win for us, cause we are not that good anymore to win on talent alone... But it is what it is. To sum up, I never was a fan of Adomaitis as a coach, consider him an average to good one on our standarts, but no way he deserved such treatment and hate. Being a coach of NT is a hot seat, no matter who is in there always will be negative things to say. Some are just coach haters, even here we have long-time ones, as I wrote in other thread, I laughed hard when one guy here was calling Kazlauskas "old fool", "old fart" when he joined and during his stint, now I saw him calling Kazlas - a professor The best coach is always a "goner" it seems

I have my own doubts about whether Kazys Maksvytis is an actual upgrade, but I'm willing to give him a fair chance. And I really hope that no sub-sector of Lithuanian fans works to undermine his position from day one. That would just be a recipe for failure.

It's still not official, there's no clearance from Perm yet, but Maksvytis surely won't get such wave of hate Adomaitis received. He is coming into the most hated person place, so anyone now is better. But will he actually be better, only time will tell. As I wrote in first post, I think Maksvytis is the best option we could get now, but not the one who will make major difference. He still lacks experience on such level, the same way Adomaitis did. So I won't talk about upgrades for now. And overall situation is complicated, I think coach factor will be way less important in OQT. Individual talent will decide much more. Especially when FIBA moved tournaments back from July to June, almost two weeks were cut from preparation, it's huge, cause club seasons will be over only week or couple ago. And then imagine if we'll have to travel to some China or Americas + acclimatization - it fcks up all the plans. Too little time even for proper friendlies

[Dreamcatcher]

Me too. Unless we have some serious issues at 5 which is super hard to expect, I don't want D-Mo in the NT. FOA, it's a huge myth he's a power forward. After his injury position 5 is the only place where he can live with both at O and D. Pre-injury D-Mo was agile, athletic and had a pretty consistent stroke, now he lost all that to some degree literally. And also his reputation...It's not a good idea to add another big tree to our already oversized NT (Sabonis, JV, Gudaitis). I would lean towards giving a chance for one of Masiulis, Kulboka, Sedekerskis.

Some half a year ago you wrote exactly opposite saying his bad behaviour is an overrated thing or smth like that. Then nothing happened and you changed the position. By the way, he could have helped in WC as Jankunas predictably couldn't and anyway Donatas could be still better then many others like Masiulis and etc.

[Mindozas]

Some half a year ago you wrote exactly opposite saying his bad behaviour is an overrated thing or smth like that. Then nothing happened and you changed the position. By the way, he could have helped in WC as Jankunas predictably couldn't and anyway Donatas could be still better then many others like Masiulis and etc.

I liked words of Kemzura (If I'm not wrong) - NT should consist not out of best individuals, but be a best team possible. D-Mo just doesn't click in this puzzle. Too big ego. JV or Domas can play little, but they never will say a word about it. D-Mo started his NT journey demanding minutes in Olympics and was left out at the end. Lot of people downgrade the importance of lockerroom factor here. It's very important in team sport. We have seen so many big teams flopping and underdogs winning just thnx to it. Argentina probably the last best example. If Maksvytis or other coach will call him up - none probably will react too harshly, but everyone knows that D-Mo is not really welcome there. He said too much, did too much to burn all the bridges and judging by his latest interviews and actions, I don't see him maturing enough to realize or even admit his mistakes

[Straight forward]

Some half a year ago you wrote exactly opposite saying his bad behaviour is an overrated thing or smth like that. Then nothing happened and you changed the position. By the way, he could have helped in WC as Jankunas predictably couldn't and anyway Donatas could be still better then many others like Masiulis and etc.

Things happened. FOA, we already seen that even Sabonis who is more agile today than D-Mo is could hardly play together with JV. I don't see a fit for D-Mo. He can't shoot threes, he even managed to screw his shot mechanics to the point where he shoots FT's with the bank shot very often, it's that bad. Jankunas on the paper was a great fit because he has that mid range jumper and Lekavicius could find him open after p'n'p all day long, the problem was that he simply missed open jimmies, shit happens, but the plan was correct and spot on.

And lastly I've got more info from NT players (some reporters who have ties with them mentioned that) that D-Mo was often late to team's gatherings and acted differently than other guys. I mean when NT members starting to talk about it means the dude really stood out in a bad way...

[madmax]

Out of all the interviews I've seen by D-Mo on this matter ragarding the NT, he always talked in a very respectful, reserved manner about every single member of our NT - he wasn't badmouthing or trying to undermine anobody. I really don't know where this beef with D-Mo is coming from and who actually instigates it, but the guy is still immensely talented player with a guard skillset and every team in the world needs guys like him on their roster...So I'd say if Maksvytis is totally cool with him, go ahead and try to reestablish the connection with this player again - I'm sick and tired seeing washed up scrubs like Jankunas blowing important layups in pivotal games instead

[Straight forward]

On other hand, let's count our best players in 2019. 2 NBA players (one is a solid top 100, other at the button of top 100 or borderline top 100 material). 2 Grigonis and probably Gudaitis (right?) among top 100 EL players (will Kuz be at the very button? Unlikely).

So 2 NBA players and 2 top 100 EL players. Damn, that's weak. I think that reflects pretty well our ever worse drop down at FIBA rankings to 8th position. And I also think that happened now due to the shift of generations (I always sceptical about this term, but this time it's pretty expressed and spot on as such players like Grigonis and Lekavicius obviously taking over veterans) as Jankunas, Maciulis, Kalnietis, Seibutis all basically ceased to be Euroleague's material for good.

When you're in the button of your previous levels, the only positive thing is that there's good chances you gonna start to rise from that. So heading to 2020 I hope Kuz will finally get his head straight and revive his career proving he's surely EL's top 100 material. I do expect Lekavicius to become button top 100 EL player or borderline top 100 under Jasikevicius this season (he won't be the best PG, but I predict that he and Grigonis will be most impactful guards statistically, Lekavicius will have his space to operate from the bench and he's ready for that). I do think, if we land him home, Brazdeikis instantly adds to the talent charts. I do hope all four 1998 best players in Kulboka, Masiulis, Sedekerskis, Jogela will pretty much reach EL's level or would become strong borderliners (in Masiulis case I think he's already into the shoes). Lastly I hope Jokubaitis will make a step forward becoming true Zalgiris EL rotational PG, Sirvydis will become boderline EL material material, Velicka would become borderline EL material, Dovydas Giedraitis would strengthen his positions in ACB.

So if next September we'll have such picture, I'll be satisfied:

NBA players: JV, Domas, Brazdeikis
Top 100 EL players: Grigonis, Kuzminskas, Gudaitis
Euroleague players: Lekavicius, Ulanovas, Masiulis
Borderline, up and coming EL players: Kulboka, Sedekerskis, Jogela, Sirvydis, Jokubaitis, Velicka, D.Giedraitis (if any of them would actually reach EL level in a year that would be a nice bonus and pleasant news)

PS: I don't think Butkevicius will ever be true EL material, unless super tiny, particularly defensive role, so I don't include him here, while R. Giedraitis to me also probably will never be true EL material, just as in Butkevicius case I see a tiny role at best, just at the other end - offensive. Can't see them both in a broad picture, but I hope Giedraitis can prove me wrong as he can still improve more as a player. I think Butkevicius already peaked. I also don't count such players as Echodas, Geben, Birutis as they have some potential to reach true EL level, but their upside in such level isn't high and knowing our talents of the bigs I see them as gaps fillers of NT at best.

[Mindozas]

And lastly I've got more info from NT players (some reporters who have ties with them mentioned that) that D-Mo was often late to team's gatherings and acted differently than other guys. I mean when NT members starting to talk about it means the dude really stood out in a bad way...

There're even harsher things about his time there, but I won't spread it on open forum. He just doesn't care too much, that's it. Everyone in NT saw it. Overall, he mostly needs NT only when he needs to promote himself, put himself back on bball map and etc. When he is doing good - he is nowhere to be seen, all you get is excuses. Guy has been individualist all his career since teen days. Individual performances, career and money first, then everything else. If he'll get benefit from playing for NT - he is there, if not - no. I'm not blaming him for that, everyone has own priorities, but if you come to NT, then, be kind, show at least a bit of dedication. It's laughable when you see him doing interviews and playing a victim... And most of these interviews are set up with his buddy Langvinis, I've seen maybe even 3 this summer, where all the right questions are asked and all the right answers are given, at the same time putting federation, coach under pressure. No question asked if he feels some guilt by himself regarding situation, would it be mature from him to make a first step and call coach, or at least captain of NT and talk about the issue. Man, if you really care that much like you pretend - you surely would try to solve it in any way possible. Afterall, it was him who started all the mess, hiding behind club back when simply didn't want to come. Instead he is complaining again and again via youtube... I don't know, maybe I grew up in different times, when people just talked about a problem and tried to solve it instead doing this. Different coaches, different federation had enough patience with him a whole decade. Almost each summer there was a drama. Thought he will grow up, change his view getting older, but nothing changes. I guess Maksvytis (or anyone else) will have a talk inside the team and will decide if team wants him back

On other hand, let's count our best players in 2019. 2 NBA players (one is a solid top 100, other at the button of top 100 or borderline top 100 material). 2 Grigonis and probably Gudaitis (right?) among top 100 EL players (will Kuz be at the very button? Unlikely).

So 2 NBA players and 2 top 100 EL players. Damn, that's weak. I think that reflects pretty well our ever worse drop down at FIBA rankings to 8th position. And I also think that happened now due to the shift of generations (I always sceptical about this term, but this time it's pretty expressed and spot on as such players like Grigonis and Lekavicius obviously taking over veterans) as Jankunas, Maciulis, Kalnietis, Seibutis all basically ceased to be Euroleague's material for good.

When you're in the button of your previous levels, the only positive thing is that there's good chances you gonna start to rise from that. So heading to 2020 I hope Kuz will finally get his head straight and revive his career proving he's surely EL's top 100 material. I do expect Lekavicius to become button top 100 EL player or borderline top 100 under Jasikevicius this season (he won't be the best PG, but I predict that he and Grigonis will be most impactful guards statistically, Lekavicius will have his space to operate from the bench and he's ready for that). I do think, if we land him home, Brazdeikis instantly adds to the talent charts. I do hope all four 1998 best players in Kulboka, Masiulis, Sedekerskis, Jogela will pretty much reach EL's level or would become strong borderliners (in Masiulis case I think he's already into the shoes). Lastly I hope Jokubaitis will make a step forward becoming true Zalgiris EL rotational PG, Sirvydis will become boderline EL material material, Velicka would become borderline EL material, Dovydas Giedraitis would strengthen his positions in ACB.

Major drop in rankings was thnx to our performance in 2010 being dropped from calculations, but I agree too much buttons here

[Shawshank]

After watching Motiejunas performance in EuroBasket 2017,Jankunas in 2019.

Our national desperatily need pf that can shoot and be atleast solid in defence.

Kuzminskas is SF by all means.He mentally was done after playing all preparation only in
Pf.All his body language looking at our teams timeout I had questions about him even watching friendlies and how he was used by coach.His eyes just wasn't right.

Now we have basically 4 centers JV, Sabonis,Gudaitis, Motiejunas all of them cant shoot and neither are fast enough for today's pf game.

It's problem when of your top 5 players 3 are centers and can't even play together.

I'm not fan of putting young kid on Olympic summer, but it's getting obviuos it very hard to win without shooting in big position.

[madmax]

You gotta wonder what happened to lithuanian basketball school and it's shooting pedigree - we used to be almost automatic from the deep in the past in any position really and nowadays we are struggling to find a reliable shooter lmao...not even asking for an elite shooting big, but a quality guard who can shoot and distribute the ball a little. Is that too much to ask?

[Straight forward]

Oh, so Kuz is among top 100 El players? I've got a little confused with those rankings and too lazy today to check it out precisely. Basically I see Gudaitis, Kuzminskas, Girgonis as EL top 100 material. We badly need more.

As for Kuzminskas I don't think playing at 4 is the problem. The problem is his personal issues I guess and lack of intensity, toughness, he is the guy who must be pushed a little bit. Also his role was not perfect, he was collecting offensive fouls with his screens anytime he stepped on the flour, it means he tried to do something what he can't. Kazlauskas used him very nicely at 4 in 2015 and he delivered exactly in the knock out stage.

Next power forwards are Masiulis, Sedekerskis, Kulboka. Kulboka still too soft and I think he will need at least 2 more years to pan out into real NT material, while Masiulis and maybe even Sedekerskis should try their luck in the camp already next summer, IMO. Also I'm not yet sure which will be Tubelis position, he's a heck of defender, but most likely will be more of modern center rather than power forward.

To me today's PF has to do 2 things well. To play mobile defence (ability to step out, switch and rotate) and ability to pass the ball. Those 2 are keys, I can live with the PF who is good at these 2 aspects even if he wouldn't do anything else.

[Mindozas]

Oh, so Kuz is among top 100 El players? I've got a little confused with those rankings and too lazy today to check it out precisely. Basically I see Gudaitis, Kuzminskas, Girgonis as EL top 100 material. We badly need more.

I don't mean Kuzminskas here, but overall those eurohoops players rankings are ridiculous year after year, the same like most of their or EL rankings

[Toruko]

What is so special being in the top 100? Whole Euroleague rosters have together 216 player. hahhahahahahah

[LuDux]

Made 3pointers per game lately


92-2000 6.3 39%
2001-10 8.4 36
2011-19 6.5 35

3pa to 2pa ratio in 24 NT tournaments:
1. 2004 1.2 48%
2. 2008 1.4 39%
3. 2017 1.6 35%

avg 2.1 37%

22. 2019 2.8 27%
23. 2011 2.9 40%
24. 1997 2.3 35%

[Straight forward]

What is so special being in the top 100? Whole Euroleague rosters have together 216 player. hahhahahahahah

Well that means you have above average EL player and if you are elite NT you do want to build the core among such breed exactly or NBA material.

And also it's Lithuanian NT matters. In 00's we had plenty above average EL players and at least 4 absolutely elite EL players. Today we don't have a single elite EL player and only few above average.