2020 Lithuanian NT: in a chase of Olympic dream

[Hepcat]

That Kalnietis at 34,5 age not fully healthy is still our best guard in pressure game thats a bad sign.

Valanciunas should be used for 18min and feed them the ball in that streach ,but he cant play more because of bad defence and teams attacking him alot.

Sabonis with all his defence and dirty job he does,Domas is limited offensive player in fiba he cant be nr 1 option in offence without stable jump shot.

Jokubaitis was fresh breath of energy in first 3 games,in final game moment for rookie was too big and its ok and understandable.

Butkevicius was our best player in final game that says alot about his character and mental strenght.

Grigonis and Giedraitis all tournament long was real dissapointments.

Bendzius 31old age and Kuzminskas 32 old age i think we should say thank you and start building for 2024 olympics without them.

When teams allow 96 pts final we need add more defenders and less soft body shooters.

1. I'd argue that Rokas Jokubaitis passed the test of the Tournament with flying colours. Looking at both his +/- and PER numbers for the Tournament as a whole, he looks to have been Lithuania's best guard. And in that last game against Slovenia, it's true that he didn't leave much impact on the stat sheet but Lithuania was still somehow a +7 over his 14:57 of court time.

Lithuanian Player Stats - Kaunas OQT

2. Arnas Butkevičius was simply the best Lithuanian player over the two playoff games. And he was absolutely phenomenal against Slovenia. Slovenia was a +15 while Luka Dončić was on the court for 33:42. Meanwhile it was Butkevičius who had the primary coverage responsibility on Dončić while he was on the court yet Lithuania was a +2 during Butkevičius' 21:56 of court time! How? It seems that Dončić feasted precisely when Butkevičius was on the bench.

Butkevičius is now an absolute lock for 2022 (if he opts to play of course). He'd have to be somewhere among Lithuania's top eight(?) players now if Krepšinis.net or somebody held one of their votes to rank Lithuanian players.

[Hepcat]

Does JV creates his own shots?

Clearly not. But why do you ask?

[Shawshank]

In fiba tournaments alot nba all stars that dont have stable jumpers struggled nothing new.

Even nba MVPs like Duncan or Giannis struggled because of same reason.

Its obviuos by now Jonas is bigger force offensively than Domas in fiba game. JV is bigger and longer and makes bigger pressure inside for defenders.Domas short hands is felt in fiba game inside . Thats why Jonas always put more points in less played minutes with higher %.

Domas is alot better in defence than Jonas.He is really good at C defensively.

In second half vs Slovenia Domas played alone at C alot, but still he couldnt dominate offensively.Less space,fast double teams and his jumper wasnt going in.

Idea that Jonas wont play Domas would put nba numbers in fiba is false enough to look at second half of final game versus Slovenia.

Czech won olympic ticket playing 2m17 Bolvin with 2m13 Vesely together all game long versus Canadas 8 nba players.But that because Canada athletes is slashers not shooters it was very important to protect the paint. Jonas+Domas also could have done that versus Canada type team.

Germany played 2 nba bench huge bodies together half of the time and won olympic ticket too.Jonas and Domas is better than Czech or Germans bigs,but those teams didnt needed to beat Slovenia with 5 shooters all the time on the floor and mega star running the show.

Similiar story happend to Spain with 2 Gasols in 2017 semis versus Slovenia lost by 20 was outrun and outshoot.The only Spain lose in 2017 and 2019 tournaments and it wanst even close.


It would be interesting to see how Slovenia gonna do in olympics.There is a chance that we simply lost againts olympic semifinal level team like in 2019 WC tournament.

[madmax]

Clearly not. But why do you ask?

is that why 3 slovenians were instantly around him whenever he got the ball in the post?
The simple math tells us that he was shooting 80 % from the field during this tournament and there was no way anyone could contain him when he was isoing with his man. Slovenians just took advantage of our usually very suspect backcourt telegraphing their passes to JV without any regard for shifting defenses (you can also blame our former dear coach Makaliunas here for only knowing one play offensively - to force feed the bigs inside no matter what). Slovenians simply hit us where it hurts the most for the past decade or so - they forced our inferior backcourt to make plays and they failed as usual again...

[Straight forward]

I
Its obviuos by now Jonas is bigger force offensively than Domas in fiba game. JV is bigger and longer and makes bigger pressure inside for defenders.Domas short hands is felt in fiba game inside . Thats why Jonas always put more points in less played minutes with higher %.

It's not obvious. The explicit answer needed. JV is much better at p'n'r with his size, in tiny FIBA game high passes of p'n'r works better, so JV can really utilize his wingspan here. He also has softer hands than Sabonis and he usually will shoot with %. But offense is not only scoring. Domas is way better passer, it's not even a competition, it's day and night. We seen that a lot in 2019, and that we didn't see that here, it's again on Maskoliunas to some extent as he wasn't able to do anything with this team in 2 weeks. And offense is always team offense. Sabonis makes other guys around him better and JV makes other guys around him worse. Regarding pure scoring JV is better, but Sabonis is overall better offensive player, cause if you would build around him he would generate more points (points + assists) and he will make others around better.

[Dreamcatcher]

The thing is that we have an all star player ( it's supposed to be big, isn't?) who not being a traditional dominant centet can't really shoot from the distance and was lost against Slovenia. It's needed to lower expectations having in mind that NBA and FIBA games are different things.

[Shawshank]

It's not obvious. The explicit answer needed. JV is much better at p'n'r with his size, in tiny FIBA game high passes of p'n'r works better, so JV can really utilize his wingspan here. He also has softer hands than Sabonis and he usually will shoot with %. But offense is not only scoring. Domas is way better passer, it's not even a competition, it's day and night. We seen that a lot in 2019, and that we didn't see that here, it's again on Maskoliunas to some extent as he wasn't able to do anything with this team in 2 weeks. And offense is always team offense. Sabonis makes other guys around him better and JV makes other guys around him worse. Regarding pure scoring JV is better, but Sabonis is overall better offensive player, cause if you would build around him he would generate more points (points + assists) and he will make others around better.

for me its obviuos numbers dont lie already from 2 tournaments.For opponnets is was easier to guard inside Domas even with some PF its was clear from eye test too not just by numbers.

2019 Jonas 22.6min 14pts+8,8reb+1asist on 64%
Domas 23.8min 10,5pts+6,3reb+3,8asist on 48,4%

2021 Jonas 21.7min 16pts+9,5reb+0.4asist on 79,4%
Domas 27.1min 11,8pts+8reb+1,5asist on 63,6%


Valanciunas plays only 50% of game and in that time he is walking 15pts+8 reb player thats ridiculous offensive production.From eye test JV simply overpowers everybody he is too long and too strong with soft touch inside.

If our guards isnt creating easy baskets for others and we ask from our centers go and give us basket Jonas is better in that im talking about that.


Maybe we should make JV best backup C in fiba to have more flexible team defence ?

For JV it doesnt matter in 15-16min he still gonna give ridiculous production like 12pts+8reb on 65% shooting every tournament.

Vysniauskas said in 2 half vs slovenia when Domas played long streach alone and NT struggled scoring "noretusi Jono" but defensively for JV Slovenia is nightmare matchup it was tough desicion.

How to find that balance Jonas offence and Domas defence,playmaking thats were is the key for our NT next few years.

[Straight forward]

Again, the problem is how our team operates as a unit while JV is No.1 option. It's efficient points individually, but it's very inefficient team wise. Running the offense through JV early on kills the tempo, ball movement, for too many possessions other players can't operate, can't be involved, can't play their BB. I think he should come off the bench, because starting with him means the loss of the team rhythm and intensity at D. He can be only short stretches guy for a winning team, IMO. If he would at least be good defender that would be completely different story.

Again, we never made Sabonis as our No1 option at 5 and that's mistake, IMO. We should utilize his passing skill and to start him at 5. It's really hard for him to play 4 and then to play some 5. Our priority should be how to get things going with Sabonis cause he can open up and involve all the team and he's much better defender in contemporary FIBA BB.

How many tournaments more we need to understand that with JV as our No1 option we can't win? He's ain't braking the walls alone. That's a recipe for disaster and that's where we have been last 6 years basically. The problem is that even when he plays only 20min, mentality is that he's our best player, that's how we play and other guys can't step up. We should stop to think that JV should be our No1 option, the guy who will lead us to medals. This idea failed. Failed many times now. It's about time to start looking at other ideas.

[Hepcat]

is that why 3 slovenians were instantly around him whenever he got the ball in the post?

The simple math tells us that he was shooting 80 % from the field during this tournament and there was no way anyone could contain him when he was isoing with his man. Slovenians just took advantage of our usually very suspect backcourt telegraphing their passes to JV without any regard for shifting defenses (you can also blame our former dear coach Makaliunas here for only knowing one play offensively - to force feed the bigs inside no matter what). Slovenians simply hit us where it hurts the most for the past decade or so - they forced our inferior backcourt to make plays and they failed as usual again...

While I agree with everything you say, none of that means that Valančiūnas makes his own shots. I understand the "making your own shot" phrase to mean dribbling about willy-nilly until you find the space/opportunity to take a shot. That's something a guard or a wing might do, but it's the last thing you'd expect of a big center such as Valančiūnas.

In fact I believe that dribbling around willy-nilly like in playground basketball to create shots is contrary to Lithuanian basketball culture and as such is discouraged from an early age. It's pass the ball when you're not open. The passing culture is also to a large extent responsible for the large number of turnovers typically plaguing Lithuanian teams. That plus the big clumsy white men thing.

[Hepcat]

Maybe we should make JV best backup C in fiba to have more flexible team defence ?

How to find that balance Jonas offence and Domas defence,playmaking thats were is the key for our NT next few years.

But are Team Lietuva coaches not continuing to design defensive schemes requiring Valančiūnas to switch off and chase after fleet footed guards on the perimeter? Why aren't defensive schemes designed to leave defencing the perimeter to guards and wings while planting Valančiūnas down low near the basket where his size and reach would dominate the paint? You've got the big oak tree. Plant it where it makes sense and does the most good.

[madmax]

But are Team Lietuva coaches not continuing to design defensive schemes requiring Valančiūnas to switch off and chase after fleet footed guards on the perimeter? Why aren't defensive schemes designed to leave defencing the perimeter to guards and wings while planting Valančiūnas down low near the basket where his size and reach would dominate the paint? You've got the big oak tree. Plant it where it makes sense and does the most good.

At the end of the day, we're going around in circles with this argument about JV and his high p'n'r defense...NBA coaches understand how to use him defensively and he's actually pretty good at D IF he's being used and positioned correctly...I feel like beating the dead horse here, but it's not the same thing playing with young talented PG like Morant and then switching to playing with barely a Eurocup level playmaker Kalnietis. As the saying goes, great players make life easier for everybody...

[Hepcat]

At the end of the day, we're going around in circles with this argument about JV and his high p'n'r defense...NBA coaches understand how to use him defensively and he's actually pretty good at D IF he's being used and positioned correctly....

Granted much has indeed been made of Jonas Valančiūnas' difficulties in defending against the pick 'n' roll, but I think you have it exactly backward. It's in the NBA where Valančiūnas should have more of a problem. Consider.

In the NBA not only are defenders prohibited from camping out in the paint beneath the basket for three seconds, but the area of the paint is much wider than in FIBA ball. Valančiūnas can therefore easily find himself on the wrong side of the paint as a fleet-footed guard rolls to the basket across from him.

In FIBA ball, however, Valančiūnas can simply stay down low. He doesn't have to stick to the opposing center if and when the opposing center drifts back to the top of the key to set a screen for the PG/ball-handler. He can continue to stay down low. That way if the ballhandler rolls to the basket, he'll still be rolling directly at Valančiūnas standing between him and the basket. Sure, sure, that leaves the opposing center freer to take shots from the top of the key, but that's a wiser risk than enabling guards/wings to cut behind you to the basket because of your positioning near the top of the key.

Yet I still see that Luka Dončić was 12/18 from two point range against Lithuania on Sunday. Were Valančiūnas and Domantas Sabonis still being lured to the top of the key and thus out of optimal FIBA defensive position by Slovenian centers Mike Tobey and Žiga Dimec?

[Straight forward]

Here's the perfect video covering the story between our old school basketball and Slovenia's new school in the game of Kaunas. JV and Domas can't play together, that's just that. The one positive moment was that our switching all defence (with Sabonis at 5) was pretty good and we managed to slow down Slovenia in that stretch. Again, how Sedekerskis at 4 and even at 5 sometimes wouldn't be great at switching all, I have no idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALvaz6rjDa0&t=34s

Now we hear from Spokas that Adomaitis' retirement was the key moment of Olympic cycle. I would really do everything to have a coach working full time for the NT. IDK, but to me Sernius would be a nice idea for new beginning. Now it's a good chance to try to give some freedom for young talented coach and to emphasize the end and not the beginning of Olympic cycle. If we will come to 2022 EB with the mind set "let's do everything to claim our positions back instantly" and it will end up building up around JV and Kalnietis again as there's no tomorrow, it will be the another mistake that will deepen the crisis long term, IMO.

[Shawshank]

its not a science with Domas at 5 and Tadas at 4 we can switch all but how the hell we gonna score the points needed to beat elite team.


In today game offensively if NT want make semifinals team cant have 2 non shooting players at same time on floor more than 10minutes per game .

All those Jonas+Domas Domas+Tadas or Domas +Tubelis will have same problems offensively nobody will guard them near 3point line and 2 defenders is always inside not just guarding our nba big,but blocking attacking lines for our guards to penetrate.

Look at Slovenia attacks floor is so spread its seems Doncic is playing 3 x 3 tournament so much space to do his work.

In LTU attacks it seems we are playing 6 x 6 basketball every where bodies blocking ways to basket.

NT was built around Domas and Jonas 2019-2021.

I like how you telling imaginations in your NT posts that it seems 27minutes highest average player played no part in 2019 and 2021 NT failures.

[Straight forward]

One moment you want Skucas to throw elbows at D, the guy who can bring zero offense (defence as well actually at this level), and second moment you giving up on Sabonis/Tubelis/Sedekerskis rotation.

FOA, we seen only JV/Domas story. We never had a tournament yet where Domas is main piece at 5 and all the team working towards the chemistry this way. Second, Sedekerskis is a rare shooter, but capable player to knock down an open three. But the good thing that Sedekerskis is also a very good cutter and Sabonis always make cutters better around him.

The answer to your question is simple. It should be guards. If you don't have guards, ballhandlers forget about winning in FIBA. Even if you will have 2 terrific shooters in the frontline. We need guys like Jokubaitis, Velicka, D.Giedraitis, Brazdeikis, Sirvydis (as well as Grigonis finally making it in the NT, cause I think he choked again and yet never played really well in the NT) or others to step up. The main scoring and creating power should come from perimeter. Thus to complain about an ALL STAR at 5, Sedekerskis and upcoming star forward center Tubelis is a bit irrational as this probably should be mobile, athletic and versatile frontline.

In other words, the dynamics would still be much different offensively than with JV/Domas, and even if we wouldn't have perfect spacing as Slovenia had with these guys, it would be substantial improvement. And at the same time we would have sharp defensive advantage against finess shooting frontlines.

But I partly agree that we should be looking for perfect spacing and shooting guys, and I think in 20's the small ball (bigs getting smaller, guards getting bigger...) will even increase, and I wouldn't be surprise that at some point we will be using 203cm Sirvydis as a stretch 4 for some stretches in some 2026 or something. It would be great if Kulboka would develop into NT material, he would be more athletic and tougher version of Bendzius.

Nevertheless, to me the rotation of Sabonis/Tubelis/Sedekerskis provides me optimism. If our focal point will shift from frontline to perimeter, this will be a very nice frontline which won't artificially demand the ball, will play within the flow and will facilitate as all three are capable passers.

With that said, let our guards and wing ballhandlers grow. There's no other ways literally.