Jankunas has been done as a player for many years now - the only reason he's even paid as a professional anymore is because out of respect for the guy and his non-confrontational personality...He's basically doing what Javtokas has been sneakily doing at the end of his career - somehow making the rosters of national team despite not cutting it impact wise anymore. Lithuanian coaches always have this habit of bringing such guy or even two into the national team for some reason...
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostWell, I disagree. I'm not even talking about the fact he's badly overpaid, such things happen. I simply think he can't play in EL any more, he's a locker room leader and talisman, that's it. It has been a while now when Jankunas sucks, going back to spring of 2019, he struggled in WC and he has been struggling with 14 EL games thus far. Against Maccabi he was plain horrid. He's not good with short stretches, even when he's decent in D at times he does that with a such slim edge that it hurts to watch, his lateral quickness and overall fluidity of movement declined badly, he can't make any jumpers (zero threes %), shoots 46.9% from 2 (which rather sucks for a big) and scores poor 2.9pts with 4 PIR. He's done as a player. I won't question his locker room impact, but that has nothing to do with him being done as a player.
Done as a player? Can't play in EL? It depends what your expectations were. If you really talk about some lateral quickness, fluid movement, some stats, you probably expected smth that just can't happen. Jankunas never was quick, and he can't be now. For some Lekavicius losing his quickness in few years will end his EL career, cause he has nothing else to offer, with Jankunas it's difference - he gets some small tasks, some things that aint' seen in stats and he is coping with that just fine. Some screen, some help in defense, some other little Jankunas things. Go ask Saras why he keeps useless player in each game for 10-15+min at least. Experience, IQ helps him to stay in this level. He is not major difference maker in EL, but to say that he is not an EL player is plain wrong. Not every player in EL has to have fine stats to be here. Smaller role players are also needed and if one of such is guy like Jankunas I'm more than fine with that. With that I also mean lockerroom presence, which I already wrote about. Every coach values it, every team values it. Just mostly fans doesn't. It's good for us, for a team of Zalgiris caliber, to have Jankunas in our team, even in that reduced role he is now - money means nothing here
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I'm sure Mindozas and the likes of him would much rather have washed up talisman of the club to blow layup after layup in every game rather than some young solid player who is actually producing on the court for the same amount of money...that wouldn't be good at all, because you know of...reasons and sentiments and freaking nostalgia
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Originally posted by madmax View PostI'm sure Mindozas and the likes of him would much rather have washed up talisman of the club to blow layup after layup in every game rather than some young solid player who is actually producing on the court for the same amount of money...that wouldn't be good at all, because you know of...reasons and sentiments and freaking nostalgia
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In 16 games (2 extratimes) that Jankunas played, Zalgiris was outscored by 10 points. In Jankunas' 202 minutes or 12.4 mpg or almost 1/3 of the game, Zalgiris outscored opponents by 7 points. And that's with subpar shooting
The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!
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Originally posted by Mindozas View PostBadly overpaid? I understand when some madmax doesn't get such thing, smth just not meant to be, but I thought you remember when contract extension was signed, when Zalgiris made it to Final4 and Jankunas had hell of the season, sadly injuries damaged his next one, but still nobody from actual Zalgiris fans complains about the salary, simply for a reason that once he made a major paycheck cuts when Zalgiris was in deep financial crisis, even played for free for some time. Everyone remember that and has no problems that he gets such money now. Not only stats numbers show the value of the player, club also must have some right priorities, which helped Zalgiris as organization to grow lately and be among the best in Europe.
Done as a player? Can't play in EL? It depends what your expectations were. If you really talk about some lateral quickness, fluid movement, some stats, you probably expected smth that just can't happen. Jankunas never was quick, and he can't be now. For some Lekavicius losing his quickness in few years will end his EL career, cause he has nothing else to offer, with Jankunas it's difference - he gets some small tasks, some things that aint' seen in stats and he is coping with that just fine. Some screen, some help in defense, some other little Jankunas things. Go ask Saras why he keeps useless player in each game for 10-15+min at least. Experience, IQ helps him to stay in this level. He is not major difference maker in EL, but to say that he is not an EL player is plain wrong. Not every player in EL has to have fine stats to be here. Smaller role players are also needed and if one of such is guy like Jankunas I'm more than fine with that. With that I also mean lockerroom presence, which I already wrote about. Every coach values it, every team values it. Just mostly fans doesn't. It's good for us, for a team of Zalgiris caliber, to have Jankunas in our team, even in that reduced role he is now - money means nothing here
That's why I said, I don't even talk about the thing he's badly overpaid, because I knew that story and back than it looked logical choice even if risky. But, sorry, at the moment, for Jankunas' role which to be honest would probably be none existant already if that wouldn't be Jankunas (I disagree that he good with these small tasks, he tries to, sometimes deals with that, sometimes not, more often not, specially at offensive end) to earn some 600 thousand Euros is just too much. Saras says that because he says what organisation has to say under given circumstances. Would he come and say, "oh, boy, that thing with Jankunas, what a nightmare, who knew". No, he protects club's decision and looking for the right word to encourage the player. Obviously he brags about his locker room presence as there basically zero in the court. OK, he still does few things decently, he's not complete joke at defence still, still can box out, rebound, use his defensive IQ, but it goes with such a small packages these days, that in his 12 minutes he manages to blow some bunnies and to lay on the floor with ridiculous fashion, he's done and Zalgiris almost desperately tries to still utilize him in best possible ways, but it is basically impossible. That's why Saras starts him, as he used to start punks not to screw the game. He's looking for best options ti deal with the mess, but it's not working. Even if you would be right, he's still decent little role EL player, such player's do not make his money's. I don't care about circumstances of past, in this season's perspective alone, he's badly overpaid. I could argue that Zalgiris could have Deon Thomson for half of Jankunas salary and he would give more in those 12-14 minutes, just giving and example.
Jankunas is Zalgiris legend, so he deserve such treatment, but he would barely help even current Rytas. He's done.LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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Here's Lekavicius 23pts agains Maccabi. We badly need this kind of Lekavicius, the one who shoots threes, not only floaters and mid range jumpers. He didn't shot much and struggled a little bit with it in other ways very solid WC 2019. Only 9 shots and 33,3% made. He also struggled with that in the first phase of this EL season, but lately delivering and his % growing to 34,5%. This is not good enough, because he's EL career (6 straight seasons) three point shooting as at very solid 39.1% (99/253).
Visit us in www.eurohoops.net - Global views on Basketball with a European perception - Everything you need to know about Euroleague, Eurocup and the top Eur...
As NT 2020 goes these player's should and can improve their shooting compared to 2019:
Lekavicius to shoot around 39%
Grigonis (from 33,3%) to shoot around 40% (EL career 42%, Eurocup's 47.5%)
Kuzminskas (from 27.3%) to around 36% (El career)
Only Kalnietis shot the ball well from three in WC, others struggled even compared to their status quo.
Let first thee players alone to shoot more and with their more usual %, and we instantly improve our team's three point shooting %. This is another reason why I want Kulboka at 4, he's one of the best shooters already, and the best at 4 surely.LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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OK, guys I'm starting to see new way how to utilize JV without slowing down and freezing the whole offence. Keep him at the three point line and let him shoot threes. And I'm serious here. JV never got a green light to truly shoot threes. It's time for that green light, IMO. In last 10 games JV shoots 63.6% threes with 1.5 shots per game in a season. In the season he shoots impressive 45.5%. I say let's keep him in the perimeter most of the time and give him 2-4 shots from downtown, if he makes them with at least 36%, I believe we may find the gold line offensively. JV wouldn't even score himself, but would leave wide open paint area for Sabonis. Also staying in the perimeter would allow him to come back to transition D much more effectively which is often a problem. Also this would open up driving lines to Kuzminskas, the guy who has to become a vital offensive piece for us. We never had center who shoots 45.5% from three, not for a half a season AFAIK. Let's keep JV and some Kulboka/Maciulis for a spot up shooting, let's run p'n'r with Kalnietis, Sabonis and allow a lot of driving freedom to Grigonis, Kuzminskas, Lekavicius. This way we involve all our best offensive players without reducing our BB to slow, primitive pounding the ball inside BB. Off course, JV's p'n'r issue remains unsolved (again the idea to switch everything was as dumb as it gets by Adomaitis, I remember Kazlauskas at least tried to use trapping and hedging or whatever, but Adomaitis never even tried), but at least this would allow to use JV offensively playing up to date basketball. I would suggest JV staying at perimeter in most cases and posting up occasionally. He also has that super pump fake which somehow always work and he would make some points while driving from the perimeter. I hope our scouts and coaches don't sleep because JV proved he can shoot. Hell, his NBA career three point shooting is 38.2%. JV has to step up into Myles Tuner's shoes to make any sense of JV and Sabonis due.Last edited by Straight forward; 01-03-2020, 08:45 PM.LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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JV was always a very good shooter since he always had a very clean looking shooting mechanics and he is usually a great FT shooter as well. The only reason he doesn't shoot 3s in FIBA yet is because solely of outdated inept coaching and the fact that he's the only elite post up big our NT has had for a while (until Sabonis proves himself that he can be as efficient as JV posting up, that is)
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostThat's why I said, I don't even talk about the thing he's badly overpaid, because I knew that story and back than it looked logical choice even if risky. But, sorry, at the moment, for Jankunas' role which to be honest would probably be none existant already if that wouldn't be Jankunas (I disagree that he good with these small tasks, he tries to, sometimes deals with that, sometimes not, more often not, specially at offensive end) to earn some 600 thousand Euros is just too much. Saras says that because he says what organisation has to say under given circumstances. Would he come and say, "oh, boy, that thing with Jankunas, what a nightmare, who knew". No, he protects club's decision and looking for the right word to encourage the player. Obviously he brags about his locker room presence as there basically zero in the court. OK, he still does few things decently, he's not complete joke at defence still, still can box out, rebound, use his defensive IQ, but it goes with such a small packages these days, that in his 12 minutes he manages to blow some bunnies and to lay on the floor with ridiculous fashion, he's done and Zalgiris almost desperately tries to still utilize him in best possible ways, but it is basically impossible. That's why Saras starts him, as he used to start punks not to screw the game. He's looking for best options ti deal with the mess, but it's not working. Even if you would be right, he's still decent little role EL player, such player's do not make his money's. I don't care about circumstances of past, in this season's perspective alone, he's badly overpaid. I could argue that Zalgiris could have Deon Thomson for half of Jankunas salary and he would give more in those 12-14 minutes, just giving and example.
Jankunas is Zalgiris legend, so he deserve such treatment, but he would barely help even current Rytas. He's done.
Regarding on-court stuff, I already wrote everything in previous post, no point to repeat myself again. You can always want more from any player, but I'm fine with what Jankunas brings now. Zalgiris doesn't suffer with Jankunas being on court the way you are trying to picture it. Btw, that Rytas remark is one of the funniest I read lately I mean you can convince yourself at times to some strange limits, how some player is that good or that bad
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Well, par axellence example when explicit answer gives more clearance. As you are more familiar with Zalgiris inside situation, this narrative makes sense. However, it's not about how much damage a player do, but the value he brings. To me, Jankunas is done as a player, at least he has been thus far in El, maybe he'll surprise in second half which I doubt. It's really nothing to brag about, his performance is so irrelevant, no-one would feel the difference whenever he's in or not, talking about freakin' ball game, not off court things. He had one good against Fener in 17 games. In last 6 games he had three scoreless games and averages 0.6pts. He also makes defensive mistakes that he barely ever make, that what declined lateral quickness does to you.
Regarding Rytas, I don't see Jankunas at 4 any more and Echodas is better player now at 5. No brainer. Or even Kairys. Thus, I barely see Jankunas.
I won;t go deeper, I don't like discussing about Zalgiris with Zalgiris fans, even if you're one of the best cases of such I've meat virtually.LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostHere's Lekavicius 23pts agains Maccabi. We badly need this kind of Lekavicius, the one who shoots threes, not only floaters and mid range jumpers. He didn't shot much and struggled a little bit with it in other ways very solid WC 2019. Only 9 shots and 33,3% made. He also struggled with that in the first phase of this EL season, but lately delivering and his % growing to 34,5%. This is not good enough, because he's EL career (6 straight seasons) three point shooting as at very solid 39.1% (99/253).
Visit us in www.eurohoops.net - Global views on Basketball with a European perception - Everything you need to know about Euroleague, Eurocup and the top Eur...
As NT 2020 goes these player's should and can improve their shooting compared to 2019:
Lekavicius to shoot around 39%
Grigonis (from 33,3%) to shoot around 40% (EL career 42%, Eurocup's 47.5%)
Kuzminskas (from 27.3%) to around 36% (El career)
Only Kalnietis shot the ball well from three in WC, others struggled even compared to their status quo.
Let first thee players alone to shoot more and with their more usual %, and we instantly improve our team's three point shooting %. This is another reason why I want Kulboka at 4, he's one of the best shooters already, and the best at 4 surely.
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostWell, par axellence example when explicit answer gives more clearance. As you are more familiar with Zalgiris inside situation, this narrative makes sense. However, it's not about how much damage a player do, but the value he brings. To me, Jankunas is done as a player, at least he has been thus far in El, maybe he'll surprise in second half which I doubt. It's really nothing to brag about, his performance is so irrelevant, no-one would feel the difference whenever he's in or not, talking about freakin' ball game, not off court things. He had one good against Fener in 17 games. In last 6 games he had three scoreless games and averages 0.6pts. He also makes defensive mistakes that he barely ever make, that what declined lateral quickness does to you.
Originally posted by Straight forward View PostRegarding Rytas, I don't see Jankunas at 4 any more and Echodas is better player now at 5. No brainer. Or even Kairys. Thus, I barely see Jankunas.
I won;t go deeper, I don't like discussing about Zalgiris with Zalgiris fans, even if you're one of the best cases of such I've meat virtually.
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Let's agree to disagree. I would be willing to say Jankunas is done in EL, you still value his impact. In LKL his still decent, but he barely can play in EL any more. Regarding Echodas, he simply inconsistent, he can score 26 or 20 in Eurocup, but he can also score 2. His problem lies in D particularly, but I do think he could explode offensively in some games in EL already, just as he had some nice games against Zalgiris this season. He goes up and down defensively, but people forget he's only 22yo still, he's young. The fact that Valencia was interested in him this off season says a lot. Personally I think Echodas is already better player than Jankunas. Echodas may suck in some particular games at D, but also can left a heavy weight in some other and score the bunch of points. IMO, the trajectory may be rather similar to Gudaitis. He was pretty good in Rytas, but than he went to EL and delivered there. Just Echodas needs to add still a bit more weight in off season and he's ready to start learning in EL, IMO.LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostLet's agree to disagree. I would be willing to say Jankunas is done in EL, you still value his impact. In LKL his still decent, but he barely can play in EL any more. Regarding Echodas, he simply inconsistent, he can score 26 or 20 in Eurocup, but he can also score 2. His problem lies in D particularly, but I do think he could explode offensively in some games in EL already, just as he had some nice games against Zalgiris this season. He goes up and down defensively, but people forget he's only 22yo still, he's young. The fact that Valencia was interested in him this off season says a lot. Personally I think Echodas is already better player than Jankunas. Echodas may suck in some particular games at D, but also can left a heavy weight in some other and score the bunch of points. IMO, the trajectory may be rather similar to Gudaitis. He was pretty good in Rytas, but than he went to EL and delivered there. Just Echodas needs to add still a bit more weight in off season and he's ready to start learning in EL, IMO.
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