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Thread: 2020 Lithuanian NT: in a chase of Olympic dream

  1. #241
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Under 22 who was in main 8-9 rotation players :



    Karnisovas 21 in 1992. (Winning team)
    Jasikevicius 22 in 1998
    Siskauskas 22 in 2000 (Winning team)
    Songaila 22 in 2000. (Winning team)
    Jankunas 21 in 2005
    Kalnietis 20 in 2006
    Kleiza 21 in 2006
    Valanciunas 19 in 2011
    Sabonis 20 in 2016
    Grigonis 22 in 2016

    That's it in 27 years.All others you mentioned is irrevelant they didn't play no role in team results.

    Stombergas in 96 Dmo in 2013 was turning 23 that year.

    Funny enough basically only best of best all future leaders of NT at some point at that age was playing ok under 22 age.Obviuosly half of them was/is generational tallents in that list.

    All other lesser tallents had no chance at that age

    and only in one team in 2000 where we can surely say youngsters Songaila and Siskauskas helped to win medals being at 22.All other teams didn't win medal that had in main 8-9 rotation youngster players under 22.

    1992 Karnisovas was main rotation player,but it was irrevelant .Two players were scoring like 60% of entire teams points in those days.In those days main rotation was only 7 players others only training partners.

    All other medals was leaded and won by players over 23.Most our winning medal teams or didn't have youngsters or they played very tiny roles.

    That's not accident that in champs where we put more younger players in those champs we didn't win medal.

    Looking at history it's obviuos:


    Only generational tallent or very tallented youngster, future one of the NT leaders can have chance being under 22 againts best fiba men.

    All others first need to mature in order to be able to help our NT.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 12-07-2019 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #242
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Technically in 2002 Siskauskas was 22 years and 1 week old when tournament started
    In 2016 Sabonis played 1 minute in last 5 games, in total 29 minutes in 9 team games, 3 minutes per team game

    Youngest performances:
    2011 19.3 year old Valanciunas 14 mptg
    2015 19.3 Sabonis 3
    2006 20.0 Kalnietis 20
    1992 20.0 Pazdrazdis 3
    2012 20.2 Valanciunas 12
    2016 20.3 Sabonis 19
    1996 20.8 M.Zukauskas 11
    1993 20.9 Pazdrazdis ?
    1993 20.9 Kavoliunas ?

    1997 21.1 Jurkunas 2
    1997 21.2 Sestokas 3
    1995 21.2 Timinskas 3

    1992 21.2 Karnysovas 18
    1997 21.3 Jasikevicius 13
    2013 21.3 Valanciunas 16
    2005 21.3 Silinskis 0.3
    2005 21.4 Jankunas 15
    2015 21.4 Lekavicius 8
    2001 21.4 Javtokas 3
    1995 21.5 Stombergas 11
    2006 21.6 Kleiza 26
    --------------------
    2000 22.02 Siskauskas 23

  3. #243

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    Here's another perspective:

    1992 OG Karnisovas, Pazdrazdis (20)
    1996 OG Stombergas, E.Zukauskas (22)
    2000 OG Siskauskas, Songaila (22)
    2004 OG No youngsters
    2008 OG Kleiza, Maciulis (23)
    2012 OG Valanciunas (20)
    2016 OG Grigonis, Kariniauskas (22)

    In absolute majority Olympic teams we got nipples snatching some role or making the roster (I think Pazdrazdis played from little to none). Shawshank however thinks I'm dreaming and living in Mars if I talk about one (or two) youngsters to make 2020 and ironically gives the argument that history doesn't back it up, LOL

    I would argue even more that except for 2016, we are in most need of young blood compared to all other Olympic seasons. I mean even in 2012 we got Jasikevicius, Kaukenas, Kalnietis, Seibutis, Pocius. In 2016 we looked ridiculously thin at the backourt, that's why Kazlauskas pushed the kids in Grigonis and Kariniauskas. Even 2020 with Kalnietis, Lekavicius, Grigonis, it looks so thin compared to 2012 which at least on the paper resembled our status quo talent since 1992 (again 2 tournaments in one summer was too much for older guys like Saras, Kaukenas, Songaila). So, yeah, I find it very logical to add few most talented youngsters in, but won't complain if Maskoliunas has other ideas. This coach situation is completely unique. None previous coach was thrown into such fire for Olympic tournament.
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  4. #244

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    Kuz continues to deliver. IIRC he didn't have a single bad game in LOKO thus far. 19pts and, again, thirty minutes of action. Surely a good stretch with LOKO for Kuz and that increases chances to see a beast Kuzminskas in the NT.
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  5. #245
    Member ZaliaBalta's Avatar
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    Kuz even made a "game winner", which was just a tiny bit too late:x

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjL9DFGsmxw#t=1m46s

  6. #246
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You overestimating the lack of true PG. Zalgiris has been missing wide open, and I mean wide open shot after another last 6 games or so in Euroleague. Making them would increase assists rate dramatically, and knowing that Maskoliunas is about to bring Zalgiris system to the NT, it's an open path to Grigonis (I want him to see at the point as well) and Lekavicius. This system is up to strict sets rather than counting on dominant, creative PG. Zalgiris never had such in the first place, Pangos and Micic are not some Teodosic, Calathes, Spanoulis. Zalgiris always substantially counted on the precise positioning, schemes and ball movement, rather than waiting till main PG will deliver. Jasikevicius doesn't hold back guards aggressiveness in certain situations, but that's all. You won't see the things like Kalnietis kneading the ball for 22sec, what we've seen in NT 2013- 2017 period. Zalgiris losing streak is primarly connected with the lack of true leadership and physical presence inside and missing shots. They get their open shots, it's not the problem.
    Ok, so you are overestimating these missed shots. Yeah, we are missing in some games, but it's not like we are shooting from excellent positions all the time. Pure media bubble. Lot of these shots are tough, based on individual efforts. Against CSKA we made few of these and that kept us alive, still it was mostly individual efforts. No creativity. You can see it with bare eye that this season offense isn't that fluent and it struggles. If not that system, which allows to find open player time from time we would be totally fcked up. Every season we had PGs who could create smth out of nothing, make some play, now no one there, just system. Now even someone like Westermann would look like a blessing. Again 12 assists on 82 points is just horrible. You can't blame any shots here, cause 82pts was still scored. It's the best example for those who still didn't see a problem at PG and blamed it all on these triples, which never was Zalgiris vital scoring option. NEVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Even if it's not Zalgiris system, it's not fair to talk how Kalnietis is the only hope. Even this summer (not to mention he already struggled against Greeks in 2017 because he couldn't handle such vast role physically any more) Grigonis and Lekavicius took the main role of the guards in both key games against AUS, FRA. He will bring his impact and snatch solid role, but we shouldn't count on him as some prime option and the only vital thread to play solid basketball. Those days are over. Primarily dog will be Grigonis, then Lekavicius, then Kalnietis. If we will stick with idea that current "Kalnietis gonna bring us on his own shoulder with his facilitating first type of basketball", and seems your post indicated that exactly, it's capitulation apriori. His ability to run the team is not at the point were it was in previous Olympic cycle, not to mention that it was huge caper to give all the possible freedom to such player as Kalnietis even in previous OC and to expect to combat elite NTs, but we literally didn't have even decent alternatives and somehow it worked with a huge help of great draw. Kalnietis now is just a role player, nothing more than that. If there's a guy in the backourt who can really step it up substantially it's Grigonis. He was pretty good in WC, but still wasn't as good as he can.
    I talked about PG and PG only. Grigonis, Lekavicius... both are not PGs. Grigonis is scorer, not creator, Lekavicius is the same, just on lower level, undersized SG, who is forced to play at PG position. Stop fooling yourself that he is good playmaker, he never was and won't be. Not at this level. Kalnietis remains the only one. That's what I wrote. He is average, yeah, so our only PG is average. That's the fact we need to face. All the rest you wrote is your imagination and trying to reverse my words into smth I never meant to write like capitulation apriori? What the hell, man? I'm just stating the obvious that PG position will be on Kalnietis shoulders once again. It was the same for years. Nothing new here. His shape will be important factor. I hoped that Lekavicius maybe will show smth under Jasikevicius, will hit the ceiling, but my worst predictions came out as true, Perez didn't deliver and we fcked up. Lekavicius didn't fill the hole. The same was stated by Maskoliunas and Saras that they are not getting from Lukas what they were hoping for, at least not now. In NT miracle won't happen


  7. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Ok, so you are overestimating these missed shots. Yeah, we are missing in some games, but it's not like we are shooting from excellent positions all the time. Pure media bubble. Lot of these shots are tough, based on individual efforts. Against CSKA we made few of these and that kept us alive, still it was mostly individual efforts. No creativity. You can see it with bare eye that this season offense isn't that fluent and it struggles. If not that system, which allows to find open player time from time we would be totally fcked up. Every season we had PGs who could create smth out of nothing, make some play, now no one there, just system. Now even someone like Westermann would look like a blessing. Again 12 assists on 82 points is just horrible. You can't blame any shots here, cause 82pts was still scored. It's the best example for those who still didn't see a problem at PG and blamed it all on these triples, which never was Zalgiris vital scoring option. NEVER
    You can look at it this way. To some degree, surely, PG section declined a little bit. My point however was that both Pangos and Westermann also were not pure PGs. Pangos seems to be also pro scoring, than pro facilitating, even if pro facilitating than say Lekavicius. Westerman was strange tweener who could guard PG-SF positions and at offensive end some universal big guard without any expressed skills or obvious sharp game style. Micic was also more of ball handling slasher, scorer, rather than pure PG. Zalgiris never had the guy who could run the offence par axellece. Now it's even worse, but to me it's more about the fact there's tons of new players and the system is not oiled (thus Saras is on hardcore mode and that also reflects missing shots, higher tension in the team), there's no true presence at 5, who could be primarily option both defensively and offensively. There have been tons of open shots, some crappy ones, yeah, but gotta make your open shots and control the paint. Let's not talk about Westermann as some master of facilitating, the dude was horrible at the start of last season (also injured) and when he finally delivered he did that with some cheeky, flat out threes in your face, like making clutch three coast to coast of the dribble (road game, can't remember exact opponent). Sometimes you just need a guy who can score, like Grigonis did against Fener. Saras' Zalgiris all the time was about system and discipline rather, than skillset and creativity. To me, main problem that the D inside is liability and there's a lack of coherence offensive system wise, only than the lack of more facilitating.




    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I talked about PG and PG only. Grigonis, Lekavicius... both are not PGs. Grigonis is scorer, not creator, Lekavicius is the same, just on lower level, undersized SG, who is forced to play at PG position. Stop fooling yourself that he is good playmaker, he never was and won't be. Not at this level. Kalnietis remains the only one. That's what I wrote. He is average, yeah, so our only PG is average. That's the fact we need to face. All the rest you wrote is your imagination and trying to reverse my words into smth I never meant to write like capitulation apriori? What the hell, man? I'm just stating the obvious that PG position will be on Kalnietis shoulders once again. It was the same for years. Nothing new here. His shape will be important factor. I hoped that Lekavicius maybe will show smth under Jasikevicius, will hit the ceiling, but my worst predictions came out as true, Perez didn't deliver and we fcked up. Lekavicius didn't fill the hole. The same was stated by Maskoliunas and Saras that they are not getting from Lukas what they were hoping for, at least not now. In NT miracle won't happen
    Ok, fair enough, I took in a bit different perspective, but nevertheless we have to understand that under current situation even Grigonis should be moved to 1 for some stretches. Even if Kalnietis is still best at facilitating, it's ain't the level to expect to role with it. We were quite good with Grigonis and Lekavicius aggressively attacking the rack of the screens, just lacked a bit more leadership quality and guts to make the key floaters and lay-ups, few missed about floaters, Sabonis' missed lay-up after rebound and such things, but offence looked pretty well and aggressive enough. That's not enough though to prevail against elite teams. Note that even if Kalnieitis was playing solidly, it was exactly Grigonis and Lekavicius who looked like most ready guys to play at crunch time. Kalnietis doesn't have athleticism, stamina and sharpness to be in such role. That's why I jumped on your statement even if you had a bit different point in your mind. Thus I think Zalgiris system will be very handy to current NT. We don't have highly skilled, pure PG. Maybe Kalnietis was close to that in his prime, but now we should move forward, Kalnietis is 15-20 min guy and third clutchiest guard at the moment, IMO. Zalgiris system benefits Grigonis and Lekavicius well at this point.
    I never treated Lekavicius as pure PG, even if he's very effective in p'n'r and specially p'n'p situations. I think what Maskoliunas meant was that they expected more confidence and bigger scoring boost from Lekavicius from day one rather than some all around facilitating improvement. I'm pretty sure about it.

    With that said, knowing our pure facilitating levels these days, don't you think we should push a little bit to secure that 12th spot for some Velicka/Jokubaitis? (Something what Kazlauskas tried to do in previous OC). IMO, we are in that situation very much. That youngster would see playing time in only few games in actual OG, but we would have a serious option for upcoming years. We badly need to push backcourt's restauration as soon as now and we do have options of talented pure PG prospects and soon there will Marciulionis as well (IMO). Not to mention 193cm D.Giedraitis. IMO, we need pure, skilled guards in the first place. Not dudes like R.Giedraitis, A.Milaknis who have no guards skills except shooting. We shouldn't pretend those solve our main issue. But, again, I will understand if Maskoliunas won't go for guard youngster this upcoming season.
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  8. #248

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    Kuz 19pts highlights. Good old Kuz + some nifty passing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3XW49xxd6w
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  9. #249
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You can look at it this way. To some degree, surely, PG section declined a little bit. My point however was that both Pangos and Westermann also were not pure PGs. Pangos seems to be also pro scoring, than pro facilitating, even if pro facilitating than say Lekavicius. Westerman was strange tweener who could guard PG-SF positions and at offensive end some universal big guard without any expressed skills or obvious sharp game style. Micic was also more of ball handling slasher, scorer, rather than pure PG. Zalgiris never had the guy who could run the offence par axellece. Now it's even worse, but to me it's more about the fact there's tons of new players and the system is not oiled (thus Saras is on hardcore mode and that also reflects missing shots, higher tension in the team), there's no true presence at 5, who could be primarily option both defensively and offensively. There have been tons of open shots, some crappy ones, yeah, but gotta make your open shots and control the paint. Let's not talk about Westermann as some master of facilitating, the dude was horrible at the start of last season (also injured) and when he finally delivered he did that with some cheeky, flat out threes in your face, like making clutch three coast to coast of the dribble (road game, can't remember exact opponent). Sometimes you just need a guy who can score, like Grigonis did against Fener. Saras' Zalgiris all the time was about system and discipline rather, than skillset and creativity. To me, main problem that the D inside is liability and there's a lack of coherence offensive system wise, only than the lack of more facilitating.
    Man, all this write-up looks like an excuse to Lekavicius, nothing less Trying to downgrade Pangos, Micic, Westermann to make current PGs look better? C'mon, it won't work. Especially remembering the same Pangos in his 2nd season, guy was one of the best in whole league... in a team which made it to Final4. Micic, Leo... you can try to find wrongs in their game, they had it, go on with positioning, but both were way better PGs than current ones. Even Westermann, whom I wasn't really loved to see again after last season, hoped someone new will be signed, but couldn't imagine it will be that bad now, so even him would help us big time. PG section not declined a little bit, it's almost non existent nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Ok, fair enough, I took in a bit different perspective, but nevertheless we have to understand that under current situation even Grigonis should be moved to 1 for some stretches. Even if Kalnietis is still best at facilitating, it's ain't the level to expect to role with it. We were quite good with Grigonis and Lekavicius aggressively attacking the rack of the screens, just lacked a bit more leadership quality and guts to make the key floaters and lay-ups, few missed about floaters, Sabonis' missed lay-up after rebound and such things, but offence looked pretty well and aggressive enough. That's not enough though to prevail against elite teams. Note that even if Kalnieitis was playing solidly, it was exactly Grigonis and Lekavicius who looked like most ready guys to play at crunch time. Kalnietis doesn't have athleticism, stamina and sharpness to be in such role. That's why I jumped on your statement even if you had a bit different point in your mind. Thus I think Zalgiris system will be very handy to current NT. We don't have highly skilled, pure PG. Maybe Kalnietis was close to that in his prime, but now we should move forward, Kalnietis is 15-20 min guy and third clutchiest guard at the moment, IMO. Zalgiris system benefits Grigonis and Lekavicius well at this point.
    I never treated Lekavicius as pure PG, even if he's very effective in p'n'r and specially p'n'p situations. I think what Maskoliunas meant was that they expected more confidence and bigger scoring boost from Lekavicius from day one rather than some all around facilitating improvement. I'm pretty sure about it.
    We are talking about different things obviously. Not clutch players will lead the team all through the game till that clutch moment will come (or not). They can at some stretches, but a PG should lead it, control it. Who are they? Only aged Kalnietis. All these weakenesses of Kalnietis you mentioned are becoming a reality nowadays, it gives more minutes to others at PG, but is it for the better? I don't think so. I never was big fan of Kalnietis game, his ball handling was always creepy and could cause heart stroke in final minutes, his final possession was mostly finishing with random triple, jeez, but we don't have anyone better to control the team, we simply have nothing to choose from - that's the problem. Btw, before yesterdays Z-R game Kazlauskas was in studio and said the same regarding Lukas, he improved his scoring lately, but he can't lead and control the team. I guess we easily can apply his words to NT too. It's not a bash to Lukas, who is adorable as hard working guy/player, always giving it all on the court, but he can't be what he is not, that's it

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    With that said, knowing our pure facilitating levels these days, don't you think we should push a little bit to secure that 12th spot for some Velicka/Jokubaitis? (Something what Kazlauskas tried to do in previous OC). IMO, we are in that situation very much. That youngster would see playing time in only few games in actual OG, but we would have a serious option for upcoming years. We badly need to push backcourt's restauration as soon as now and we do have options of talented pure PG prospects and soon there will Marciulionis as well (IMO). Not to mention 193cm D.Giedraitis. IMO, we need pure, skilled guards in the first place. Not dudes like R.Giedraitis, A.Milaknis who have no guards skills except shooting. We shouldn't pretend those solve our main issue. But, again, I will understand if Maskoliunas won't go for guard youngster this upcoming season.
    Let's talk about OQT first of all. I think we simply won't have time for experiments. Couple of weeks for preparation, maybe couple of friendlies. That won't be enough to prepare. Great that we'll have an easy group, so two additional games to prepare for main games vs Poland/Slovenia. Venezuela even might give us some tough time with their physical game, great chemistry playing together for years. But that's for the better. vs Korea it will be a walkover most likely. I simply don't think that any youngster will be used when we'll have to gel our game, new system for the most important encounters. You must go with experienced players, the ones you trust the most.
    Regarding OG, if we'll make it, then we'll see. However, it was easier for Kazlauskas to find a place at PG position for a youngster in his whole cycle than it is now, there was absolutely no one beside Kalnietis. Now we have at least Lekavicius trying to play there, who has experience and is not a newbie. Other than that, Maskoliunas will think about result only, Kazlauskas had whole cycle and had some tiny space for experiments preparing NT for the Olympics. Then it's not easy to cut a player who went through qualifiers, and take some youngster to Olympics instead. We don't have such bright talents like JV, Domas or even D-Mo back in the day. Maybe if injuries will occur, or maybe if some guy will prove himself during window games in February. But hardly so. In 2021 it will be much easier to do that


  10. #250
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    I'm not watching russian league, but wouldn't be surprised that Kuzminskas constant scoring in Loko came from again playing more SF position instead of PF as happend with him everywhere after eurobasket2017.

    It was too early to get old for Kuz.He still got the offence world class level,but only if you use him in right way.Not ask him to guard players he simply can't and hates to do.

    If Kuz feels right emotionally he seriuosly can help our NT offensively.His remarks in interviews about where he feeling best playing should be heard or we won't get nothing from him again in Olympic summer too.

    His character is weaker and in order for such players play well they have to be in comfort zone.

    Playing SF is his comfort zone.

  11. #251

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    Mindozas, don't make Lekavicius homer out of me, I can't wait when new, more skilled, more all around youngster guards will come. Under current backourt's talent pool I like Lekavicius and I think he's a decent back-up combo for EL/NT, but he ain't my cup of coffee as a player. Obviously I love high IQ guards, like Saras and Siskauskas was, and Doncic is may favourite NBA guard as he does so many things with IQ. If the best scenario of my projection will come true, I see Lekavicius already stepping back from the NT in 2025, and as 2021-2015 goes I would like his role to be as an energy guy, scorer for 10-15 minutes in NT as a 5th guard. But we surely have to wait for this for a little while if not longer...Again, Jokubaitis is pretty high IQ and rather all around guard, D.Giedraitis is pretty high IQ, rather all round (and also tough defender) and Marciulionis surely high IQ guard with the most complete and broad skillset of all our young guards. I'm expecting the most from these three guys. Not because some Jokubaitis and Giedraitis are necessary better than some Brazdeikis, Sirvydis, Velicka, but because they bring true guard skill, true all around guard skill, and that's the hole that we badly need to plug up.

    In the last game Kuzminskas played with Sam Dekker. They are twin brothers really. Both Combo forwards. Thus I think there's no expressed SF and PF while those 2 in the line-up. One can play in the post in one possession, other in next, depending on situation, defences. The key, IMO, is that he is playing tons of minutes, he receives the ball, and there's rather a lot of freedom it seems.
    I think Maskoliunas will have to polish the system that Adomaitis tried to established, but somehow failed. To have 2 line-ups, one bigger and slower, playing more strict system ball, and other faster, smaller, allowing more ISO ball and uptempo. If Maskoliunas will take Rokas Giedraitis and he will have Kuzminskas in a good shape, probably he should try to allow more freedom to Sabonis, Kuzminskas, R.Giedraitis, Grigonis, Lekavicius line-up and to see if that works particular night. Maybe that line-up can explode with scoring.
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  12. #252

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    Dude, it's rare that I completely agree with some-one, but I'm like 100% with these guys on D-MO. Listen to it at 51:14. To me he's retired PRO baller who makes money in China with 80% of physical effort not to brake his back for good. That comes from ex D-Mo's fan:

    https://www.basketnews.lt/news-13544...klausimas.html
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  13. #253
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Mindozas, don't make Lekavicius homer out of me, I can't wait when new, more skilled, more all around youngster guards will come.
    What? If you think so, then you made it look like this on your own


  14. #254

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    Kuz continues to shine and now it's more than clear he made a right choice to go to LOKO. He would be warming the bench in OLY and would come to the NT as some random dude while having the body and talent to dominate the game in the making.

    Here's a bit of conversation on Augustas Marciulionis, and when legends' sons Domas and Augustas can play in NT "together again". T. Purlys says it might happen as soon as 2 years and I don't find this statement necessary false. That's because Marciulionis made huge leap in terms of progression and I find it hard to remember the same example recently. If he would progress in such trajectory, 2 years would be enough to have realistic chances to make the team at 19yo. He's that talented. However, I highly disagree that he should be thrown to Rytas already. Just play tons of minutes in Perlas and lead the team, nothing better 17yo can ask of. OK, maybe if he will continue to drop 20/7 in each of next 5 games, that would be a heck of streak of some 14 consecutive games when he dominates NKL and thus indicator that he has nothing to do here any more. Very interesting if Marciulionis will play in Rytas next year or will head to NCAA.

    https://www.delfi.lt/krepsinis/nauji....d?id=83002683
    Last edited by Straight forward; 12-12-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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    Man, masses of Lith BB fans are still dumb as f...Around 62% think that D-Mo should still be in the NT. And that's not only kids, far from that. From experience I know there's tons of old farts who never developed a bit more subtle understanding about BB, hell or high water they wouldn't click few links to get familiar with actual things, but would stay with their opinion strongly. In most cases they don't even analyse, they just hear the name "Motiejunas" and the steady stereotype pops in their mind (much as with other players, like the the biggest and most steady myth of current Lithuanian basketball at the moment as well...). Too bad. We are still miles away from say American BB society. You wouldn't see such bullshit, people understand basketball, and most Liths only think that they understand, but they are at such low point that they wouldn't even think that they may not understand basketball. That's why we have crappy coaches, we don't have BB IQ history. Only now we understood we need to establish some sort of coaches school, starting to talk about coaches qualification and so on. Dude, we are still barbarians in BB, just happened to have great passion and love for the basketball, but not knowledge. In the first 2 decades we run with the talent alone and few guys who understood something, like Kazlauskas, Nelson Jr. When talent declined, we ended up with absolute mediocrity of coaches when we needed elite ones as much as ever. We have dumb basketball masses (and that reflects our coaches as well), no coaching school which would be up to date. It's good that we at least started to realise that, that's a step forward.
    Our best BB journalists are Rytas Kazlauskas, a good commentator, but not some sharp basketball critic, and Urbonas, a bit more outspoken and sharper, but still not as analytical and deep BB geek as you would want to. In other words, we badly lack critical thinking in BB, our understanding is outdated, there's some young nipples who have more understanding of contemporary global basketball, but that's not enough.
    Here's the hierarchy, IMO:
    Players, coaches, infrastructure, journalists (critics), society.
    At the moment, since the drop out of talent since 2008, we are boderline elite in terms of players and bordeline or even elite at infrastructure. In rest three parts we suck, IMO. Thus, there's job to do.
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  16. #256
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Hehe, I like your explosions like this regarding social media

    Anyway, if you talk about bnews poll "Should Motiejunas be in NT", it's a joke, look at options:

    - Yes, all the best players should represent NT
    - No, with JV, Domas and Gudaitis, there is no place for D-Mo
    - Yes, but only if some other center won't be available

    If I think that all the best players should represent NT, but I'm not sure if D-Mo is among them, which option should I choose? It's inaccurate as hell. If you force me to choose, probably first one is still closest to what I think, and you probably know my opinion about D-Mo all these years. At least put the obvious one - "Yes, if he'll prove that he deserves it". Now basically nobody has a clue in what kind of shape he is and what he is capable of to vote in such poll. It's too random

    Regarding voters, you'll need to give me a good proof that older people votes the most, as I'm more than sure, that the most active ones in such sites like bnews or knet are exactly younger generation.
    Regarding bball community, of course grey masses rules in LT, but you really think that in some USA or anywhere else is that different? Everywhere its the same. Just numbers are different, but I guess percentages shouldn't be.
    Regarding coaches, we had schools back in the day, few decades ago, then in Soviet times, I think in former KKI university, you could've get coaching diploma, but now not (probably). Until some moves were made earlier this year. Will it change smth - hard to say, unless federation and university will put some serious work on it, like seminars with respected coaches, coaching clinics, here and abroad for the best and etc. It should have been done years and years ago.
    And finally regarding journalists, Kazlauskas is good, I agree, his knowledge about the game is really good, from historical point of view, which is deep one to current hot topics, that's why it's interesting to listen to him in interviews, he has smth to say, good questions to ask, maybe he just doesn't talk about it too much in media (yeah, podcasts), but I don't see it as a problem - quality over quantity is always better. But saying that Urbonas is good, you exactly point at a journalist who is the most populistic out of all and oriented to exactly these grey masses, guy has very primitive understanding about the game, very limited knowledge about historical stuff, just knows how to hide it all behind loud words. Clickbaitor at its best, like basicall all of 24sek crew. Strange that you buy it


  17. #257

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    In that Paulauskas, Rimkus, Urbonas podcast crew, I found the latter most up to date knowledge about basketball. He's the guy who would sneak into the NBA scouts courses (most of them are not free these days), he's the one who can read articles in English and to say his opinion. Also he's pretty bold, he doesn't afraid to write harsh article about Sabonis and in next press conference to ask a direct question to Sabonis. He may be failing with some projections or opinions, but at least I found him refreshingly up to date to current BB changes, trends, issues and so on. It's so pitiful to listen how R.Paulauskas brags about Birtutis as some huge prospects while it's clear that his ceiling is a tiny role EL player, he literally has no ideas about NBA ball and doesn't even bother to get to know and says "I would love to pick the best Lith player from Euroleague's players", and that comes from serious BB critic. In that perspective, Urbonas is pretty good, he's also active, can get to NBA summer league, can talk with Brazdeikis manager, ect. Regarding market thing, sure, that's the trend. NBA commentators also talks about things which trending, but they also are highly informed. It suck when Rimkus doesn't know that Lithuania played against Dirk also in 2007EB, not only in Sweden and 2011. Or that some Marciulionis is 17yo and not 18yo, it just shows people are not ready. I don't even talk about Paulauskas, to me he's an example of "old school" experts, guy's who have so outdated understanding about BB, who always have the lack of information and riding on their own "common sense" judgments. To me Urbonas isn't that bad, but not perfect, I find him true enough. I also ok with Rytis Visniauskas, sometimes he's too formal and lacks a bit of more deeper take regarding some players, but basically always spot on generally and never says extremely stupid things which constantly happen with Rutenis Paulauska, LOL Good old current Rytas' crew guy, a la Jarutis and others.
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  18. #258
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    Funny about the pool, I did't find an answer that suits me neither.

  19. #259
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    You mentioned what's good with Urbonas, is that he interviews interesting people - the same Brazdeikis agent you wrote about, that was really good job, or some other good interviews he did with agents, bball related people. Thėse podcasts are the ones I'm trying not to miss, even some basketball fundamentals are lacking, maybe some questions are missed, but its still good. Then goes his analytics, when he tries to talk about some hot topics, tries to talk about history, to make some connection, that's what really bad. The same federation stuff you wrote about, I think I wrote about his podcast before - he and his colleague tried to look deeper at that stuff, jeez, it was horrible. False historical facts, lame ideas, blaming without second thought or giving a clue what should have been done, which solution would be better. Nothing. Just pointing a finger and that's it. That's pure populistic opinion. It was not brave or bold at that time when to bash federation was trending big time, all the media was on it, dozen of articles, harsh comments. The same bnews podcast about the same issue was miles better, also critics, but at least reasonable, that's what discussions should be about and how it should look, even Tiskevicius made some good remarks.
    In that crew with Rutenis and Rimkus he might look as the wisest, but I'm not wasting my time listening to it anymore as I simply don't care about their opinion. Rutenis was goon back in the day, when he just started to share his opinion on TV, had some interesting remarks, but when he started to show up on the screen more frequently - it became bad. Rimkus, well, just ignorant guy. I have no clue what he is doing there, how he managed to become a boss in 24sek. Probably the same like Pulkovskis from knet, created his own podcast, just to show that he is doing smth, better he wouldn't. While Vysniauskas became better at everything when he got back to earth


  20. #260

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    Here's how I rank youngsters readiness to join NT at the moment, from what I have seen this season and some of my projections changed in last month or so:

    1. Masiulis, Kulboka. Any of those added would be more as a timely transition than forced action. Offensively I think Kulboka is much more needed for his ability to stretch the floor at nearly elite level already, but Masiulis brings more nominal PF presence and I guess the timing more suitable for Masiulis to join Sabonis and Kuz at 4.

    2. Sirvydis. D.Giedraitis. Both are showing tremendous ability to deal mentally with the transition to higher level. D. Giedraitis stepped into ACB court like it's just another ball game.

    3. Jokubaitis, Velicka. I had Jokubaitis much higher, but he blew his chances in Euroleague which was a surprise to me and it showed the pressure caught him. Also he struggles with three point shooting and surely is wors defender than both guys above. While Velicka I think could very well be one step above if not his crappy shooting, really crappy, 25,8%. Nevertheless he shows tremendous confidence, playing with poise.

    4. Brazdeikis. I see this guy only this low unfortunately now. The guy is completely ISO player, would be absolutely lost in FIBA and while showing tremendous potential as scorer, he'll need time to develop into such. At the moment I don't see what he can bring. He's not good with short stretches for Knicks and his G league campaign is very up and down. I think we should start adjusting him to FIBA ball with the new cycle. Let the kid work this off season individually.

    5. Sedekerskis, Jogela. I like both, but both will need time and both don't have killers mentality. They need strong coach and time.
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