2020 Lithuanian NT: in a chase of Olympic dream

[Mindozas]

Perimeter defense should be the key against both Poland and Slovenia, unless latter will bring some naturalized frontcourt player. In offense we should have no major problems, none of these two is known as great defensive unit, especially of course paint, there're none to stop Sabas, JV, Gudaitis. We will need just to bring the ball there. If we'll be able to shut shooting, slashing, we might be just fine. Grigonis, Ulanovas, maybe Butkevicius given his shape, so far he looks kinda poor. Not much faith in Seibutis anymore, after great season in Zaragoza, he looked dull, now after injuries already hunting him in this one, probably he is done

[Straight forward]

I think Euro windows will show which youngsters might take a shot of making a team, or at least to try to do that, specially for Olympics it self. Here's what I expect for windows roster:

Jokubaitis, Velicka (assuming Kalnietis out, but who knows)
Juskevicius, Sirvydis, D.Giedraitis
Butkevicius, Maciulis
Masiulis, Kulboka, Bendzius (please, keep Bendzius away from serious NT campaigns though)
Echodas, Birutis

Now I think we should have 2 different rosters for Kaunas tournament and OG itself. I agree that we should bring Butkevicius in for Kaunas tournament. Also I guess all Zalgiris players, even including Jankunas, who is doing great with his 15min in LKL and 10minues in Euroleague. That's much more impressive than Maciulis bleak stats at some trashy leagues. If Jankunas still moves as he does now, I would surely like him in at 4, he would make those jimmies this time, IMO. Anyway, it's very tough to guess, but that's what I see for Kaunas:

Kalnietis, Lekavicius
Grigonis, Milaknis, Butkevicius
Ulanovas, Giedraitis
Kuzminskas, Masiulis (or Jankunas)
Sabonis, Valanciunas, Gudaitis

And then, if we make it, I would consider to integrate one or two young players with wide skillset and high IQ from D.Giedraitis (IMO, most ready), R.Jokubaitis, D.Sirvydis, I.Brazdeikis depending on how they will look in windows and overall in second half of the season. The thing is that with such a long summer, you can't ride on only 2 solid guards (Marius, Lukas) and 2 veternas (Kalnas, Milas). We need a guard who could come out in some games for 10-15 minutes, put the ball on the floor, facilitate, to look to score. Thus, I think we should take one of these above mentioned. I exclude Velicka because of his shooting, but who knows maybe even he might make a name for him self in windows. Also I wouldn't completely exclude Kulboka's chance to make it at 4, it's small one, but he doesn't look that bad in ACB, surely much smarter and fundamentally sound stretch 4 than some Bendzius. No, I don't see D-Mo, 4 centers is as stupid as it gets, no I don't see "a tissue" Juskevicius. I don't think Butkevicius aside his D brings that much that it would be worth taking him for actual OG. To stop Doncic, we can take him, but other than that 2 strong defensive wings in Grigonis and Ulanovas should be pretty much enough, we need offence also after all. So for actual Olympics I see something like this:

Kalnietis, Lekavicius
Grigonis, Milaknis, D.Giedraitis (or other youngster I mention)
Ulanovas, R. Giedraitis
Kuzminskas, Masiulis (or Jankunas if he's in)
Sabonis, Valanciunas, Gudaitis


So wild shots obviously as there's obvious transition between some veterans and youngsters now, and it's hard to say for example who is now better, some Tomas Masiulis or Jankunas/Maciulis? Kulboka or Bendzius? Seibutis or D.Giedraitis? It's really tricky.

[ZaliaBalta]

Well yeah. I really hope that we are going to finally use youngsters in those shitty windows. Forget Bendžius, Juškevičius, Gailius and all of that.
Maybe even take young guns and add Kuzminskas to make him grow on the leadership role in the NT.
It is high time we started the transition between vets and new guys in the NT. We simply need them to grow and to keep us in the elite.

Talking about having two different squads for qualies and Olympics I think that it is a wise decision, but is it fair though?

Rethinking the squad and excluding DMO:

Kalnietis, Lekavičius,
Grigonis, Milaknis, R.Seibutis/D.Giedraitis/R.Jokubaitis
Ulanovas, R.Giedraitis
Kuzminskas, Masiulis/Jankūnas
Sabonis, Valančiūnas, Gudaitis

Let's try to take a look at potentially Slovenia's squad

Nikolič, Rebeč
Prepelič, Blažič
Dončič, Z.Dragič, Murič
Čančar,
Vidmar, Dimec

IDK about the rest of the players and IDK if these written above will play, but they are currently the best players for Slovenia (with Dragič + Randolph retired).
Taking position by position, no advantages for Slovenia except for SF. Obviously Dončič might play the PG/SG/SF whatever, but wherever he plays, other 4 positions favor for us

[Straight forward]

Yeah, I surely forgot Kuz is available for windows now likely and maybe he even willing to come to play us much as possible. And D-Mo.

As for Slovenia, Donic will play as PG no doubt, he will be with the ball all game long. But the thing is Lithuania is much more bigger and physical in all positions except...Doncic. That alone makes us substantial favourite to get the job done.

[Shawshank]

"We need a guard who could come out in some games for 10-15 minutes, put the ball on the floor, facilitate, to look to score"

you mean on olympic games stage competing with euroleague nba players? Tell me that guard not counting Mantas,Lukas and Grigonis who can go out there on Olympic floor and do all those things you mentioned and wont be scared like rabbit when he will see nba players infront of him for the first time?

If you are talking about those 3 kids in Velicka,Jokubaitis,Giedraitis jr. you are dreaming my god They would look like Jokubaitis did in euroleague debut this season tottaly scared and lost.

In window games sure they can play its at best uleb level there,but not in olympic games with best of the best.

Nobody will change qualification team members with some youngster.In 2012 we change 2 players in Seibutis and Jasaitis (that got injured in training camp) but that was obviuos upgrades to Dulkys and Delininkaitis if remember correctly.Rule is not changing winning team,unless it would be obviuos upgrade and wasnt there in first place because some injury

*who is now better, some Masiulis or Jankunas/Maciulis? Kulboka or Bendzius? Seibutis or D.Giedraitis? It's really tricky*

doesnt matter only one spot is avalaible for those 6 players and that will be very limited time role players spot.


Even if some youngster gonna make the team is like 99% he wont play in Olympics or see couple trash minutes prepare him for future,but not in mind that he can help in his debut.

But usually all teams goes with experienced players on Olympics games pressure is the biggest,because you know all world is watching.

[Straight forward]

Decent post Shawshank, at least you didn't make any logical mistakes this time and almost didn't put a single word into my mouth, well except that you skipped the part "in some games" when I was talking about these youngsters who obviously would grab that 12th spot which usually is glued to bench in most cases. I'm not against any option that Maskoliunas will need, but if I have 50/50 choice between experienced, but washed out veteran and more talented, better fit skills wise, but less experienced youngster, I prefer the latter for that tiny role. When you know that some Juskevicius will be absolute tissue at D against elite team's guards, I much rather throw young, but sturdy, high IQ defensive guard D.Giedraitis for those 5 minutes, not mentioning that either of them most likely wouldn't even leave the bench.

Remember that Olympics consist of going against African and Asian teams too, hell even against some American teams I can easily see one of D.Giedraitis, Jokubaitis, Sirvydis, Brazdeikis playing 10-15 minutes. All of them are playing at respectable level, be it EL, Eurocup, ACB or even NBA. You probably get as much as with washed out veterans or mediocre guys like Juskevicius, and you build for the nearest future.

[Shawshank]

Im telling you facts how much point was scored by players under-21 in previuos olympics playing for ltu? check the numbers if not supertalents like valanciunas and Sabonis it would be close to 0.Im too lazy to check.

ok your youngster team under 21 Sirvydis,Jokubaitis,Velicka,D.Giedraitis,Kulboka,M asiulis combined all of them in entire olympic tournament will manage to give our NT 10 pts? Over or under?

Im going under for sure I would even say that washed up veteran like Maciulis have better shot by himself outscoring that entire youngster team .Not because Jonas is very good today,but it will be hard to score for that youngster team watching on tv games in my humble opinion

[Straight forward]

Wow, again passport wisdom and again you didn't even listen what I wrote above.

[Straight forward]

The fact is that if Shaw would coach the NT since 2015, today we would have a single man who can handle to ball, facilitate and create from the perimeter. The same old Kalnietis. Because there's no way in the world he would have given 21yo Lekavicius a chance in 2015, there's no way he would have given 22yo Grigonis a chance in OG 2012. I mean, are you crazy, they are under 24, so next Olympic cycle's players at best...

[madmax]

guys, at the end of the day we will hopefully get all the best possible players for the Olympic qualification tournament (exluding the injured players and the ones who need to move furniture for the wife during the summer) We will once again like usual be stacked in center position and will once again have to solve the PG issue somehow - will that be enough to beat Slovenia/Poland in Kaunas with their best hypothetical squads? I really don't know, especially with our current tendency to choke when it matters the most. At least the coaching position should be a slight upgrade I guess

[Shawshank]

So you going over 10 pts from that your youngster team ok i will ask you this question after olympic summer. How much that youngster team of your help our NT.

NT is not developing place.Nt is for best men player to play and try to win as much games as possible.

Gomelsky son this year said the best : no youngster leaded team have ever won medal in such tournaments.And he follow such tournaments since 60s...

You need tough skin men,kids will not help you in do or die games.

Lukas at 21 and Grigonis at 22 missed all shots they shot in those tournaments and looked scared.Was it mistake to take them - no.One ,max 2 kids can be on the team,but dont expect anything from them in their debut.Lukas played so bad in that champ that kazlas didnt even invite him next summer.

but when you comming here and putting 4-5 diffrent even younger 20-21 old kids on olympic team over and over again is getting funny.

and yes both grigonis and lekavicius was next cycle players 2017-2020,definetely not 2013-2016 even if they were tried and couldnt deliver.Same goes to all your u-21 youngster team.They can/will help in next olympics not this one.

and yes my position is same if players is U-23 he if not unique tallent he cant help winning team.But can get experience for the future thats true.

its good that are you avalaible to remember what i say,but hopefully one day you will be able to understand the diffrence between mature profesionals that ready to win now and upcoming youngsters

[Straight forward]

Oh, so now suddenly you're ok with few youngsters, just not too many? We may have some progress here afterall, LOL

You always brag about how new players shaking their legs, but it's exactly experience and not age (your fatal mistake) makes them ready. Why Grigonis was already extremely important part of NT in the KO stage of 2017 already? Because he went through shit in 2016 (he wasn't even EL player back then). Lekavicius was already poised for strong EB 2017, but got injured. There's no way Grigonis, Lekavicius would be one of the keys in 2019 if they didn't have their part with the NT in 2015, 2016. You've seen how Rokas Giedraitis looked this summer. 27yo was shaking legs. NT experience is completely different animal and you must throw your most talented players into the fire that they would grew bold. The idea that you ripe your players in clubs and then you throw them to the NT and they are good to go is pure bullshit. That maybe happened with 2 players Lith BB history, it's Arvydas Sabonis and Arvydas Macijauskas. All other needed time to ripe. Listen to Kazlauskas when he repeats over and over again that NT had to go through a lot of shit and losses till Jasikevicius became Jasikevicius. You have to understand that if you would go with your philosophy you would go flat in few years. Kazlauskas added Lekavicius and Grigonis not because there was no older guys, but because he was looking for particular skillset, he seen the weak parts of the NT and he was looking at the broad picture. Good coaches do that, mediocre not.

Gomelsky words completely irrelevant here, LOL. Who said youngsters will lead NT? Man, seriously, you're better than that.

[LuDux]

Gomelsky son this year said the best : no youngster leaded team have ever won medal in such tournaments.And he follow such tournaments since 60s...

He forgot Paulauskas and Sabonis (unless he meant multiple youngsters as leaders)

[Mindozas]

How about Yugoslavia in 1988-91. That was very young team for current standards. Lot of guys in early 20s, with some even younger. With all due respect to Gomelsky, as the time passes he is making more and more factual mistakes. I don't mean this one, maybe he meant smth else, but speaking overall, he is getting lost in that huge bag of info he gained during his lifetime. At times listening to his comments, reading some interviews makes your eyebrows rise with wtf. What I mean that I wouldn't trust him anymore regarding some historical stuff, probably age does its bad thing here, sadly.
Generally speaking, I don't care at all about the age if player deserves a spot, nor if he is veteran, nor if he is in his teens, the best players should play in tournaments like that. Of course if you are having some core of 10 players, and you not gonna use too much that deep bench options, you can take some talented guys with the look to the future, we could allow ourselves such "luxury" back in 90-00s, just not always used it or it did pan out, but if you don't have such bright talents or every of 12 players has its role - there's no point to force that rejuvenation either

[Straight forward]

How about Yugoslavia in 1988-91. That was very young team for current standards. Lot of guys in early 20s, with some even younger. With all due respect to Gomelsky, as the time passes he is making more and more factual mistakes. I don't mean this one, maybe he meant smth else, but speaking overall, he is getting lost in that huge bag of info he gained during his lifetime. At times listening to his comments, reading some interviews makes your eyebrows rise with wtf. What I mean that I wouldn't trust him anymore regarding some historical stuff, probably age does its bad thing here, sadly.
Generally speaking, I don't care at all about the age if player deserves a spot, nor if he is veteran, nor if he is in his teens, the best players should play in tournaments like that. Of course if you are having some core of 10 players, and you not gonna use too much that deep bench options, you can take some talented guys with the look to the future, we could allow ourselves such "luxury" back in 90-00s, just not always used it or it did pan out, but if you don't have such bright talents or every of 12 players has its role - there's no point to force that rejuvenation either

That's very correct post.
That's why I'm saying it's up to Masokoliunas regarding 2020. If he sees some veterans who are generally already questionable, but fits well for his system (f.e. maybe Milaknis or even Jankunas) than I'm fine with it. But if there's more or less 50/50 choice between "meh, but experienced veteran" and "talented, but inexperienced youngster with good upside" I would prefer the latter.
And lastly, but most importantly - we badly lack talent at the backcourt. We sort of fooling our selves that we are still elite team, but 2016-2019 period does not indicate that. It's very opportunistic, nearly religious to believe that Kalnietis/Grigonis backourt will prevail against Rubio/Lull, Fournier/ De Colo, Calathes/Sloukas, Teodosic/Bogdanovic (and so on) backcourts. Maybe, that's the reason why people rise false believes regarding JV as some saviour, while he's just another strong center in FIBA, nothing more. I'm pretty sure Kazlauskas saw that and understood that very well, thus not only looked for short term success, but also came as guy who can clean the mess in Lithuanian basketball generally. One time he prepared absolutely new generation for us in 1997-2021 which gave us Euro gold later and many wins, he tried to do the same again to some degree in 2013-2016, pushing aggressively for backcourt youngsters - Cizauskas, Lekavicius, Kariniauskas, Grigonis...he even tried Vasiliauskas so others. And partially he made it. All would agree that without Grigonis and Lekavicius we would look extremely bleak now. But we still badly lack talent in the backcourt, we lack creative, all around guards and wings. That's why I'm Pro young blood integration. If we will hesitate our bleak stretch will continue most likely. But, again, I don't push pressure on Maskoliunas just instantly with his first year and under such crappy circumstances, Kazlauskas came with the new Olympic cycle and had much better circumstances to do what I'm asking for.