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Thread: 2020 Lithuanian NT: in a chase of Olympic dream

  1. #361
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post

    I would go with Maciulis because he have chances guarding PF, I don't believe Paulius can anymore.
    If we'll make it to Olympics that would be an issue, but for OQT and the rivals we'll have, current, a bit revived Jankunas would do ok IMO. He plays as PF in EL too, and well, doesn't fall out of the picture. Against Venezuela you'll need to hustle a lot, against potential rivals like Poland with their slower, physicall frontcourt too, against Randolph-less Slovenia it might be the case either. Not that I promoting Jankunas to NT, maybe Maciulis would be enough for that, but lately seeing Paulius being better, wouldn't be surprised if he would be called at least to OQT as Zalgiris system player, to bring some toughness, lockeroom leadership and experience. But I'm ok here with any coach decision, there are reason to call him and not to


  2. #362

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    Here's one important moment. Lekavicius needs a good p'n'p 4 in that second unit. P'n'p is the only facilitating element that Lekavicius does really well on consistent basis. Jankunas used to be a perfect p'n'p partner to Lekavicius, but lately he can't hit jumpers and doesn't really shoot. Jankis was missing those in WC and that could be such a nice boost for us, and now he barely even shoots. Personally, I think we need a good p'n'p big in the second line-up. Maybe Maciulis still can make some of those. Kulboka is picking and popping all season long and that's another argument for him. It's too big of luxury to have some so so defensive 4 who can't really bring things on the table offensively. With current Jankunas the problem is that he can't provide offensively at 4, he can be used merely as 5 in O (for some lay-ups and stuff) and we don't need him there. So...to me it's either Maciulis or Kulboka/Masiulis at 4 for that second third string (depending whenever we'll use Kuz there) as the best fit.
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  3. #363
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Here's one important moment. Lekavicius needs a good p'n'p 4 in that second unit. P'n'p is the only facilitating element that Lekavicius does really well on consistent basis. Jankunas used to be a perfect p'n'p partner to Lekavicius, but lately he can't hit jumpers and doesn't really shoot. Jankis was missing those in WC and that could be such a nice boost for us, and now he barely even shoots. Personally, I think we need a good p'n'p big in the second line-up. Maybe Maciulis still can make some of those. Kulboka is picking and popping all season long and that's another argument for him. It's too big of luxury to have some so so defensive 4 who can't really bring things on the table offensively. With current Jankunas the problem is that he can't provide offensively at 4, he can be used merely as 5 in O (for some lay-ups and stuff) and we don't need him there. So...to me it's either Maciulis or Kulboka/Masiulis at 4 for that second third string (depending whenever we'll use Kuz there) as the best fit.
    isn't Sabonis a pretty good p'n'p player himself at a 4?
    I mean I understand his preference to play 5 most of the time, but he does have a pretty good midrange J and enough mobility to keep up with quick guards like Lekavicius

  4. #364

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    isn't Sabonis a pretty good p'n'p player himself at a 4?
    I mean I understand his preference to play 5 most of the time, but he does have a pretty good midrange J and enough mobility to keep up with quick guards like Lekavicius
    Sabonis is starting material. I doubt Maskoliunas would want to start with softy Kuz, or some barely walking veteran. Most likely JV and Sabonis would still start the game. We'll need Sabonis legs from the start at 4, IMO. We don't know how Maskoliunas will handle things though. Maybe he'll have JV and Kalnietis at the second unit for that slower set offence, running p'n'r and inserting the ball inside, and will start Lekavicius. Than some Gudatis, Sabonis frontcourt would make sense. But Sabonis is only yet to prove he's crafty enough to shoot jumpers in FIBA. Tight court and rougher defence takes away the jumpers from bigs in FIBA to some extent. Sabonis is a decent jumpers shooter only in NBA soft regular season as of yet.
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  5. #365
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    If we'll make it to Olympics that would be an issue, but for OQT and the rivals we'll have, current, a bit revived Jankunas would do ok IMO. He plays as PF in EL too, and well, doesn't fall out of the picture. Against Venezuela you'll need to hustle a lot, against potential rivals like Poland with their slower, physicall frontcourt too, against Randolph-less Slovenia it might be the case either. Not that I promoting Jankunas to NT, maybe Maciulis would be enough for that, but lately seeing Paulius being better, wouldn't be surprised if he would be called at least to OQT as Zalgiris system player, to bring some toughness, lockeroom leadership and experience. But I'm ok here with any coach decision, there are reason to call him and not to
    My mindset is on Olympics.If at home we can't beat mediocre Poland and one men team Slovenia ( if dragic won't change his mind) that fiasco in my eyes.

    I just don't understand in what Jankunas can help us when our center position is loaded with Valanciunas,Sabonis, Gudaitis.

    Last year shown we played best basketball with Jonas or Domantas and 4 mobile players ( that's how we got back in both of the main 2 games).There will be around 15-18 minutes where Jonas and Domantas will play together and that the only minutes I wanna see with 2 bigs together.

    Paulius at this stage doest fit together with neither of our 3 centers and it won't happen that he will be in the floor and our other 3 centers will be on the bench.

    The best what Paulius can expect is Javtokas role in 2016. But again do our NT really need that? Maybe team will need that veteran that unites team Maskoliunas knows betters this, but as goes just for basketball Jankunas can't help anymore our NT againts opponents we will possibly see in Olympics.

    Where Maciulis fits better with all our bigs and obviuosly is better shooter and simply faster.Can give us 10-12 basketball minutes,not just leadership in loockeroom.

    How often Sharas uses Jankunas with Geben together this season? That's how akward would be pairing Paulius with any of our 3 centers.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 02-08-2020 at 03:14 PM.

  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    My mindset is on Olympics.If at home we can't beat mediocre Poland and one men team Slovenia ( if dragic won't change his mind) that fiasco in my eyes.
    Hardly fiasco. We are favourite to win it, but that's all. The gab is not huge. FOA, Slovenia has the best FIBA Euro baller, the best. Giannis is not even close. Lithuania doesn't have legitimate star player in FIBA. There's none, unless Sabonis would really surprise and drop 20ppg/10rbs/4a, that would be FIBA stars numbers. But as of matter of fact, we don't have a guy who could take the ball, go ISO and would win the game for us, Slovenia does. They still have Gasper Vidmar, decent defensive big to throw against JV and Sabonis at 5. Alen Omic is 2,16 m solid center, scoring 12pts for ACB Joventud. Now they naturalised Jordan Morgan who is pretty solid in Turkish league. Now Klemen Prepelic is dropping 22,4ppg in 28min in ACB. His shooting % are really solid, dude can get buckets. Jaka Blazic in double digits in Eurocup for Olimpia. Solid rotation players as Zoran Dragic (he's end the end of the roster of Baskonia) and upcoming NBA rookie Vlatko Čančar who actually stepping into NBA court a little bit at the moment and can be unpleasant surprise. Slovenia is a real deal. It's not only Doncic, but Doncic alone is the best baller in Europe. We are till favourites because we are tougher, bigger, deeper, but that's all. Slovenia has more creativity, skills and sheer scoring power with Doncic, Prepelic duo in FIBA. That will be a dog fight and it can go either way.

    The problem is that we barely have a leap in terms of the talent compared to 2012 (barely advanced to Olympics) and even 2016. We can celebrate the addition of Lekavicius, Grigonis and Sabonis as the key players, but Kalnietis, Maciulis, Seibutis, Jankunas declined. Again, we'll have the team which is not as talented as other true contenders. The good thing that I see constant and steady growth of talent since 2021 already. And I project huge hopes towards next Olympic cycle and specially further one (2025-2028). Let's agree, now it's another Lithuanian NT which can get into the semis with some huge draw luck and great timing of the physical peak, and the one who can objectively go down with the first round of the knock out stage. Or to lose to really dangerous Slovenian NT. People forget that in 2017EB Dragic still wasn't even close to what he is now. He's a beast and you barely would stop him one on one. If you would double him, other guys will get their open looks. It's not some high school team.

    This Olympic campaign is another gamble hoping for overachievement. We ain't got the pieces to truly contend at this stage. We badly lack all around guards and wings who can shoot of the dribble, who can get their own buckets when the game is on the line. BTW, we never overachieved in OG. It can happen in EB or WC, but never in Olympics. When we got medals in Olympics we had flat out international stars who were controlling everything in the clutch.
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    If Doncic won't come...That's another story We would get all over Slovenia than. And it's possibility, IMO, that Doncic won't even show up. He's facing some nights out in NBA, it means some minor injuries bothers him.
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  8. #368
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    Well LTU is strong in the paint where Slovenia is weak. Gasper Vidmar and Jordan Morgan against Jonas Valenciunas and Domantas Sabonis (cant we have his father back?). On the other side LTU is fairly weak in play making and slovenia is very strong there with Doncic. In terms of shooting i consider Slovenia and LTU even. LTU has a clear advantage with Ulanovas against Blazic in the forward position.

    If doncic doesnt rampage LTU should make it.

  9. #369
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Sabonis is starting material. I doubt Maskoliunas would want to start with softy Kuz, or some barely walking veteran. Most likely JV and Sabonis would still start the game. We'll need Sabonis legs from the start at 4, IMO. We don't know how Maskoliunas will handle things though. Maybe he'll have JV and Kalnietis at the second unit for that slower set offence, running p'n'r and inserting the ball inside, and will start Lekavicius. Than some Gudatis, Sabonis frontcourt would make sense. But Sabonis is only yet to prove he's crafty enough to shoot jumpers in FIBA. Tight court and rougher defence takes away the jumpers from bigs in FIBA to some extent. Sabonis is a decent jumpers shooter only in NBA soft regular season as of yet.
    all true...
    however, I think you're overestimating the importance of p'n'p play in a highly competitive FIBA game - like you've already said, the court is smaller and the space to operate this kind of play is very limited because of much tighter defense being played. Therefore, playing the classic p'n'r and post game with our bigs seems like a logical way to go for me, rendering the likes of Jankunas on the roster completely unnecessary

  10. #370
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    My mindset is on Olympics.If at home we can't beat mediocre Poland and one men team Slovenia ( if dragic won't change his mind) that fiasco in my eyes.
    Dragic said that he won't be there, even lately he repeated it all over again, even if Slovenia will make it to Olympics - he won't come. Family comes first to him in offseason, he has done it all for the country when he could. But to underestimate Slovenia or call it one man team is absolutely wrong. It's like calling Dirk with Germany a one-man team. Yeah, they had one go-to guy, superstar, but Germany had some good role players too, which helped big time - Okulaja who played in Barca, Femerling from Barca/PAO were few most notable names. Not Dirk alone carried them to podium few times. Look at the same Yao and China as different example. That's prime example of one-man team. No help - no results on biggest stage except for few sensational wins. Slovenia is much more like that Germany in 00s. Prepelic, Blazic, are good players, they can shoot lights out in any given game. So fiasco is way too sound word here. Disappointment of course, but fiasco it's like lose to Korea and Venezuela and won't qualify to play-offs. It's one game, any sh*t can happen. Even Poland should not be underestimated, they'll have nothing to lose, such rival is always very dangerous. For sure, we must beat them all, but we must not underestimate anyone, that would be huge mistake.
    I think you should re-set your mindset on OQT first


  11. #371

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    Kulboka drops 18pts against Unicaja. First good game after a slump. Basically it's Euroleague's level game. When 22yo youngster drops around 20 points in ACB, it's an event. We discuss that Masiulis and Kulboka are next men up at 4. And that's a spot on. But, IMO, Kulboka is winning this battle. Masiulis drops 10pts and grabs 4rbs in LKL. Kulboka drops around 10pts and 3.5rbs in ACB season. That's black and white really. To me Kulboka is a much more PRO at the moment. Balling as a solid contributor for top 5 ACB team is real deal experience. You're in elite club competition environment, and you actually balling. It's not even Bendzius story. Bendzius was balling for the pretty much bottom team Obradoiro. Kulboka is balling for a winning Bilboa which stands at 5th spot.
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  12. #372
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Without Dragic and Doncic Slovenia couldn't beat uleb level teams in qualification and took dead last place in standings...that's says alot what help Luka will get.

    One Doncic and bunch of uleb players can't beat top 8 world level team on the road ...if that happens Maskoliunas must resign and return to assisting coaching.We simply have obviuosly more both bodies and tallent.Valanciunas will feel like home if he have to play against such old schools center like Vidmar and will not have to think about his own defence at all. One veteran center cant hold basically best europes front court lineup.

    Put 3 different our wings on Luka literally beat him up in 40 min game , make him play defence and we should win that convincingly if we play on level our team can.

    I'm not even sure who gonna take first place Poland or Slovenia in other group.For me that matchup tallent wise is closer than Lithuania vs Slovenia (without Dragic) in Kaunas arena.

    People is forgetting that Dragic was 2017 MVP and leading scorer and main playmaker brains that was holding everything in that EuroBasket for Slovenia.That final where Goran put 35 pts in 3 querters againts 3-4 diffrent Serbians tough nose defenders was djordjevic like performance in 95 ,but eventually his body gave up playing so agressively for 3 querters.What he said and with what emotion he did in that timeout to others Slovenian players when 2 minutes left to go and Serbian tied the score and no Dragic ,no Doncic and Slovenia still won should go to motivational sport videos and remarkable moments of sport history one day.

    Dragic was brain and soul of that team.Without him, Randolph and coach Kokoskov that not same Slovenia winning team we gonna see in Kaunas.

    I'm repeating for me not making Olympics first time because we couldn't beat at home Doncic and couple uleb players would be fiasco.We cant ask for better draw and never got better one.

    In Lithuania beating motivated Lithuania NT even for top 4 world teams would be seriuos challenge.If we fail making Olympics in such draw at home its not because opponents did something ,its because we fail big time.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 02-09-2020 at 05:31 PM.

  13. #373

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    Man, some are just too stubborn to read any arguments
    What's that Uleb even mean? Do you realise that Prepelic drops 22.5ppg in ACB? As of matter of fact, I think he's better scorer than any of our wing or guard or any player overall at FIBA. Watch how he single handedly killed Spain in 2017 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myCD0GPE7wc

    And than they still have the best Euro guard and player overall. Who cares that Dragic was MVP of 2017. Current Doncic is already way better than 2017EB Dragic, jeez...He's legitimate NBA MVP candidate, wake up. You will put guards on him for 40 minutes...His skillset is perfect for FIBA. He would either score a bunch or would assist all day long.
    JV can have anyone as a direct opponent he would still suck at p'n'r defence and we would still take the damage from shooting guards and wings. You entirely missed with this point.

    Doncic, Prepelic >>> Sabonis, Valanciunas

    IMO, it's not even close. That's how FIBA and conteporary basketball is build, it's guards and highly skilled freaks like Lebron, Durant game now.

    You're dreaming if you think Slovenia (who BTW didn't have their best players in quallies, let alone Doncic) some second rate opponent like Belgium, Denmark or Poland. They have real ballers. But stay stubborn. Should I argue a lot with the guy who treats Lekavicius as "Uleb" level player while the guy played 6 consecutive seasons in EL and never ever even played in some dreaming land "uleb". Not to mention that you were saying Lekavicius will be a 3ppg player in WC. Or called Augustas Marciulions a bust, just as T. Sabonis. Sometimes you really lost with your projections. Slovenia grabbed the gold when Doncic was out with injury in the final and Dragic completely gassed out after first half. Prepelic dragged them on his shoulders, finsihing with 21pts in the final. This Slovenia is a real deal team with the top 5 baller in the planet and as a matter of fact still champs of Eurobasket. Stop this "uleb" non- sense.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 02-09-2020 at 05:17 PM.
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    Gotta love what Jokubaitis providing for a 19yo. This season, combining LKL and EL he shot 32 threes and made 15. That's 46.9 %. That used to be his weak spot. He stepped onto EL court lately and looked pretty damn decent for a 19yo nipple. As a matter of fact, it's a first time any of our 19yo PG would have 20 games EL experience and 128 minutes playing time overall. Jasikevicius was in NCAA at that time, Kalnietis started only at 20. In LKL he scores 7pts in limited 15min. That's also very positive stat. His Per36 in LKL is 16,32. All that are really positive signs that sooner rather than later will have a real option at PG for the NT.
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  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    I'm repeating for me not making Olympics first time because we couldn't beat at home Doncic and couple uleb players would be fiasco.We cant ask for better draw and never got better one.

    In Lithuania beating motivated Lithuania NT even for top 4 world teams would be seriuos challenge.If we fail making Olympics in such draw at home its not because opponents did something ,its because we fail big time.
    I agree. All the Lithuanian team needs to do is not choke.


  16. #376
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    interesting statictical article is about zalgiris players in euroleague that couls give us some idea about their possible roles in NT too.

    Žalgirio“ puolimo ir gynybos reitingų skirtumai prie kiekvieno žaidėjo Žaidėjas Puolimo pokytis Gynybos pokytis Bendras skirtumas

    Edgaras Ulanovas 1,7 -12,3 14,0
    Thomasas Walkupas -3,3 -16,1 12,8
    Zachas LeDay 2,4 -4,0 6,4
    Marius Grigonis -1,5 -4,4 2,9
    Artūras Milaknis 2,4 0,5 1,9
    Paulius Jankūnas -4,0 -5,1 1,1
    KC Riversas 5,7 7,5 -1,8
    Nigelas Hayesas 4,2 6,9 -2,7
    Jockas Landale'as -5,4 -0,3 -5,1
    Lukas Lekavičius 1,9 15,1 -13,2
    Martinas Gebenas -8,8 9,9 -18,7

    Lukas with all provided individual offence is dead last in defence when he is on the floor zalgiris defence is worst as teams by a mile compared to other players.Even lkl teams begun to attack him with bigger guards.

    With Lukas team offence is average,he just does everything on individual offensive tallent doesnt create for the team.He is truly what combo guard is give you offence right now and this element is needed for our NT that recently struggled with offence againts top teams.We need guy who can score by himself.

    But we need to use Lukas how Sharas does from bench when all players feel some tiredness after first 5-6 minutes and fresh Lukas can attack them with his speed.In such way also hiding as much as possible his defensive weaknesses.Fresh starting 5 guards would took even more advantage of Lukas undersize than those same tired starters or their backup guards)

    Walkup and Ulanovas are defensive horses that defends everything.You dont need numbers it very obviuos even watching which players holds entire zalgiris defence.+ Grigonis and suprising Jankunas with Leday are good defenders.

    If zalgiris needs a stop they could put Walkup,Ulanovas,Leday,Jankunas and with healthy Grigonis and job will be done

    Milaknis is solid in team defence by number wow

    Jankunas on team defence is still very good.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 02-19-2020 at 06:32 PM.

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    That's Zalgiris. The team which polishes the system for 6 moths to get it going. NT will never have luxury to polish the system completely and will relay on individual talent and sheer hustle so much more than Zalgiris. That's why I'm very strict on player's defensive abilities. You just have to come out and to provide real D without much if any privileges, no-one will cover much of your ass. That's how players like Gecevicius, Milaknis looked unplayable in 2017 EB.


    Here's things that I wouldn't want to see in NT ever again:

    - Sabonis and JV clogging the paint. Dead end of basketball strategy, the past and super inefficient in tight FIBA court/defences.

    -Ulanovas posting up. Same dead end. No advantage in speed, toughness, skills, but somehow we keep going for it and other guys just stand and watch. If there's no obvious midget against Ulanovas, forget about that type of balling.

    - Spread the flooooooor. Spacing. Anyhow. Other than throwing complete no D pieces like Bendzius, but even he's worth a try at this point. If we don't get this and some serious shooting, we ain't gonna win at contemporary ball. There's teams with much more dominant offensive power and their D are at our level or even better (in France case f.e.). So they have all the spacing, shooting, ball movement and elite D, just as ours, but we pound the ball inside and play dead type of ball. Other than aggressive p'n'r attacking either by Grigonis or Lekavicius, our NT played outdated type of offence in 2019. Have shooters at all positions, specially at 4 (thus leaving aside you know who is a huge mistake).

    - We can't have one ballhandler and creator in the line-up. Basketball doesn't work this way any more. There must be 2 ballhanders and the guys who can create their own shots. IMO, we needed more Grigonis- Kalnietis, Lekavicius-Grigonis, Kalnietis- Lekavicius combinations in 2019. Somehow Kalnietis and Lekavicius played together only 5 minutes. At this point I'm curious how Tomas Dimsa will look at NT environment and whenever he may have some shots to become such breed and off course looking forward to Jokubaitis, Brazdeikis, D.Giedraitis in the future. Any serious NT always have 2 handlers and creators/scorers.

    - We can't play JV and maybe even current Gudaitis, D-Mo at 5 for some serious minutes. That's an open hole at D and it's gambling (in JV's case), not serious BB. If we will continue to pretend those changes has nothing to do with us and we'll run JV at 5 for heavy minutes, we will inevitably go down again. Opposition simply will sink their threes and jumpers of the p'n'r and turn the light out comfortably.

    - In a long run we need skill at SF. We never had ballhandling and all around skills at three since Sikauskas. We badly need one. I'm not sure yet how much Sirvydis can provide of that, he played PG for some extent as a youngster, but I surely see Brazdeikis in this position and I think in the future we should consider Grigonis there as, if we will have more options at guards in the future. Spacing, all around skills, shooting and ability to switch at D is the future of ball game and it basically reaches all 5 positions. We either gonna catch up with these trends or we dig even deeper into becoming a BB province which we have been doing last 4 years.
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  18. #378
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    basketnews lt projected such lineup for Olympics after watching how Maskoliunas used players in those 2 window games:

    PG Kalnietis,Lekavicius,Jokubaitis
    SG Grigonis,Giedraitis
    SF Kuzminskas,Ulanovas
    PF Maciulis,Bendzius
    C Valanciunas,Sabonis,Motiejunas

    honorable mentions : Gudaitis,Butkevicius,Milaknis,Jankunas,Brazdeikis


    i agree that those are top 17 players by positions right now we have and most ready for this olympic games and that would be my full invite list. Final roster thats will be very tricky lets say from honorable mentions 2 of them would have made my team

    It will be tough chooses between

    Giedraitis/Milaknis/Butkevicius/Jokubaitis
    Bendzius/Jankunas/Butkevicius
    Motiejunas/Gudaitis

    There are question marks about Jankunas and Brazdeikis showing up for diffrent reasons.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 02-25-2020 at 12:14 PM.

  19. #379
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    This window as start of preparations for OQT was ok. I don't mean the way we played, it was more or less expected that we'll struggle, but what we've got from it, maybe some finally will realize that it was not time for futuristic experiments, but for a new coach to start building a team for OQT. The time we have is very limited. It was ok that we had that cold shower, it was ok that game vs Czechs was tough. It showed lot of things where work need to be done. Only setbacks players' wise were illness of Kalnietis, as main PG was basically off, and less important one was that Motiejunas wasn't at best. But if his physical shape can be brought back to some extent, then being that big hole in defense is hardly so, cause he never was strong at it what so ever. It was pure Chinese look. Good for him that for now Gudaitis is nowhere near his pre-injury shape, so there's a chance. But I really hope that Gudaitis will gain back his game. Bendzius was solid yesterday, experienced shooter might always help and he added big plus to his name. Jokubaitis made some rookie mistakes, but left positive impression. I don't know about his chances to make OQT team, but anything might happen, depends on where coach will try to make more stakes at backcourt - playmaking or shooting.
    That bnews line-up is close to what we'll see. But still 3 months to go, a lot will depend on shape of players


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    basketnews lt projected such lineup for Olympics after watching how Maskoliunas used players in those 2 window games:

    PG Kalnietis,Lekavicius,Jokubaitis
    SG Grigonis,Giedraitis
    SF Kuzminskas,Ulanovas
    PF Maciulis,Bendzius
    C Valanciunas,Sabonis,Motiejunas

    honorable mentions : Gudaitis,Butkevicius,Milaknis,Jankunas,Brazdeikis


    i agree that those are top 17 players by positions right now we have and most ready for this olympic games and that would be my full invite list. Final roster thats will be very tricky lets say from honorable mentions 2 of them would have made my team

    It will be tough chooses between

    Giedraitis/Milaknis/Butkevicius/Jokubaitis
    are u talking about rokas giedraitis? why do people underrate him that much? because he cant play in a system? how do you know that?

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