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Thread: 2020 Lithuanian NT: in a chase of Olympic dream

  1. #321
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    I'm repeating in open freely moving game better tallent wins especially if that tallent advantage is in backourt.

    When Sharas says shoot in first or second it doesn't mean fast break, it means he don't care until it's good shot.

    If you game plan is do not allow better tallent teams to freely move and trying to make more of ugly physical wrestling contest fast break in not your priority.

    If zalgiris get a steal and have advantage 2 vs 1 or 3 vs2 sure you must attack on fast break but only then.


    But main plan is make slow physical defensive battle and smart ball movement attacking weak spots.
    With Pangos and Misic zalgiris had seriuos tallent in backourt and could play more open game,we can't compare those 2 to Lukas and Walkup tandem.

    Sharas coaching didn't become worse, tallent is worse he had to work with.

  2. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    When Sharas says shoot in first or second it doesn't mean fast break, it means he don't care until it's good shot.
    I specially enjoyed this one. He doesnt care until it's a good shot, but what else it can be than fast brake if it's second or third second of possession? Yes, it does mean fast brake, it literally can't be anything else if we speak about the possession which starts on your defensive side.

    Better backcourt wins in uptempo game? No shit!

    You're missing the point that running into fast brake doesn't mean you allow opponents to run. Zalgiris doesn't have facilitators. Walkup has absolute freedom, but he barely gathers 5 assists in 26 minutes, even Lekavicius probably get that with such minutes and it only shows Zalgiris doesn't have solid facilitator. If you want to play solid set offence, you either have to have a heck of a position-less line-up or to have a solid facilitator who would create and control the game. Zalgiris doesn't have such and even more, Zalgiris doesn't have advantage in the frontcourt. If there was Grigonis, Zalgiris would be clearly guards team this season. Even now, lately it's Lekavicius and Walkup who leads the team.

    Again, no-one suggests to run like chickens without it's heads, but Zalgiris set offence has been rather poor, obviously inability to shoot also played the key role here too.

    No-one here even argue that Saras is bad coach or declined, no idea how you came up with the contra-argument while there's even no argument in the first place.
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  3. #323
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Its impossible to shoot on 1 or 2 second dont need to understand what sharas says literally.His point at that remark was to say system is to create good shot its on 1 or 23 seconds he dont care.He wasnt talking about fats break at all you putting diffrent meaning to what he said .He was talking about zalgiris system shot selection not about fast breaks.

    He said first or second just everyone to understand and dont think zalgiris players cant shoot early.Sharas is getting some blame that he controls team to much and not allow to create for players so putted those "sound words" as shoot on 1 or 2 second that even impossible to do in fast break.So or dont understand what he says and want to see what you like.

    After Real game Sharas said directly plan was not allow them to play and put them out rhytm ,more less be destroyers not creators.Real want to be up and go all the time its very risky line with them.If no obviuos advantage, plan stop stop stop and making them play defence for 18-20 seconds (Real hates to do that).

    How do you imagine running? if your my plan is make faul to slow down game? defence and offence are connected.It was obviuos on what pace zalgiris wanted to play versus real and in most games this season.Zalgiris system rules makes fast breaks unlikely unless your opponenets gonna do alot of tournavers.


    This year Zalgiris cant play open basketball in euroleague ,same goes to NT because of big lack of tallent of backourt.Its not about dominate centers its about lack tallent in backourt thats limits you as a team.We all want to see 2003-2004 nt playing style,but thats unrealistic with limitations in backourt.

    In Sharas teams always guards leads because entire offence is in their hands,its not about numbers its about how they create for others and leads entire team.

    With Pangos and Misic leading in backourt zalgiris made even to final four and all season long was surely top 6 team.

    This year with Lukas and Walkup zalgiris basketball is ugly and very limited creativity comes form guards.Lukas creates only for himself and Walkup defends well and like loyal soldier does everything sharas says.But both of them is back up guards in euroleague not starters.Grigonis was the only euroleague level starter ,his injury hurted zalgiris backourt alot,but even with him it was obviuos problems with playmaking.

    Lately both pg plays well,we will see will their manage to stay on similiar level or again will be two good games 3 bad ones and so on.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 01-13-2020 at 02:30 AM.

  4. #324
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    I will again express my opinion that our worst problem this year is our C's and PF's. None of them are euroleague level. Maybe Leday but only every second week.

    We can't defend in paint because their are not tall/strong enough to stop any more physical opponents and they are not hitting their outside shots.

    Guard are not performing as good as we hoped for, but bigs are even worse.

  5. #325
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svajunas View Post
    I will again express my opinion that our worst problem this year is our C's and PF's. None of them are euroleague level. Maybe Leday but only every second week.

    We can't defend in paint because their are not tall/strong enough to stop any more physical opponents and they are not hitting their outside shots.

    Guard are not performing as good as we hoped for, but bigs are even worse.
    Sure, none plays good enough, but on other hand bigs are dependable on guards. If they can't get the ball in right position, if they gets it late or in not comfortable one - there's the biggest problem and that's what is happening. In Zalgiris system key is PG. Good PGs could make even a tree dance. But now they doesn't help much either, so bigs are left to play lot of individual game, way too much. How come Landale is not an EL level? He is. 11pts/4rbs/10eff in 20mins is surely not numbers from some scrub, sure defense is still far from good, but its fixable,let's not forget that he also missed entire preparation period. Landale is very similar case like Davies was in his beginnings, also lot of fans were saying that he is not capable of playing in EL, he can't cope physically, defends poor, has too little skills and etc, the same happens with Landale, just most likely it won't have happy ending, at least not this season, cause Davies had PGs beside him and when finally was able to match physicality of league, he blossomed in the end of the season. With Walkup and Lukas you have close to zero chances for that to happen. That's the biggest blooper of Motiejunas and Saras - to keep playing without a true PG when Perez decided to leave


  6. #326
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    I happened to watch a few bits of Zalgiris games here and there recently and their main issues and unsolvable really - a lack of true leader and and painful lack of talent too. Schemes can only be as good as the players who are executing them on court and you can't expect Milaknis or heavily undersized Lekavicius to compete on the same level with the likes of Larkin or Mike James lol...a very soft frontcourt kills greens in every single game too, as in previous seasons they at least had Davies to provide inside presence against other bruising bigs. In other words, they are at the bottom of the table fair and square and asking them to overachieve once again is asking them to play above their abilities imo

  7. #327
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Sure, none plays good enough, but on other hand bigs are dependable on guards. If they can't get the ball in right position, if they gets it late or in not comfortable one - there's the biggest problem and that's what is happening. In Zalgiris system key is PG. Good PGs could make even a tree dance. But now they doesn't help much either, so bigs are left to play lot of individual game, way too much. How come Landale is not an EL level? He is. 11pts/4rbs/10eff in 20mins is surely not numbers from some scrub, sure defense is still far from good, but its fixable,let's not forget that he also missed entire preparation period. Landale is very similar case like Davies was in his beginnings, also lot of fans were saying that he is not capable of playing in EL, he can't cope physically, defends poor, has too little skills and etc, the same happens with Landale, just most likely it won't have happy ending, at least not this season, cause Davies had PGs beside him and when finally was able to match physicality of league, he blossomed in the end of the season. With Walkup and Lukas you have close to zero chances for that to happen. That's the biggest blooper of Motiejunas and Saras - to keep playing without a true PG when Perez decided to leave
    Maybe he is passable on offense , but he is very soft on defence. Maybe he will get better later on, but he is not good enough for EL now.

    I will stay to my opinion that we have worse frontcourt then backcourt.

  8. #328
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svajunas View Post
    Maybe he is passable on offense , but he is very soft on defence. Maybe he will get better later on, but he is not good enough for EL now.

    I will stay to my opinion that we have worse frontcourt then backcourt.
    We simply see situation from different angles. Individually this season backcourt looks better, especially when Grigonis was there, but they does it all on their own, they doesn't help frontcourt, which is one of their main tasks on court. I can easily say that Lukas and Walkup are not on EL level what comes to creativity, so that's where the main problem lies IMO - we just lack a PG who could create for a team, for bigs. That's all on management and Saras for not signing a proper PG. Sure, Leo leaving, who would be now like a blessing even tho he was not so brilliant, then all this Perez stuff, then maybe there were no decent options, but playing with Walkup and Lukas as PGs was like suicide ever since the beginning of the season


  9. #329

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    How about Lekavicius dropping 20,3pts per last three games? It's extremely tough to do in EL, it's the same as to average 28 in the NBA. I think it's has to do with the fact he got consistent minutes with Zalgiris, got all over WC hangover, and now really delivering. He shoots rather insane 58.8% form 2 for a guard in a season, and solid 40% threes. So current Zalgiris should give all freakin' freedom for little fellow with current offensive talent. When you have a guard who shoot 60%, you let him mess around a little bit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPVzqYraA0g
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  10. #330
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    In euroleague it was 19 games played...16 games doesn't count only last 3 games counts ok

    Nice hangover half of euroleague season.Lukas have no problems in defence, he don't need no help from teammates i don't understand why he plays only 19 min.He can score, who cares about playmaking and defence.

    Sharas don't understand that basketball is changing?!

    Playing biggest minutes by players that's actually can defend everything ,but very limited offensively in Walkup,Ulanovas, Hayes.

    Valanciunas averaging in last 2 NBA games 25pts per game and shots ridiculous 60+% .Morant stop shooting your only 40%made
    shots and feed the big men!
    Last edited by Shawshank; 01-16-2020 at 11:34 PM.

  11. #331

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    What are you even talking about? What 16 games, what doesn't count? What Saras doesn't understand, what JV has to do with it, what's happening? LOL...

    Seriously, Shaw, sometimes your posts are such a mess
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  12. #332
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    What are you even talking about? What 16 games, what doesn't count? What Saras doesn't understand, what JV has to do with it, what's happening? LOL...

    Seriously, Shaw, sometimes your posts are such a mess
    I believe he's trying to take a sarcastic jab at you and your posts here mate regarding the "contemporary basketball" you are constantly raving about...just failing to express it in a coherent manner lol

  13. #333

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    I believe he's trying to take a sarcastic jab at you and your posts here mate regarding the "contemporary basketball" you are constantly raving about...just failing to express it in a coherent manner lol
    No shit!

    PS: You're amazing and obviously have zeeerooo clue about it.
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  14. #334
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Stf you don't understand irony at all, no fun with you

  15. #335

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Stf you don't understand irony at all, no fun with you
    No, it's not the case. I've got your intentions, but it just were too loose and you mis-interpreted some of my words. Also, I didn't have time to replay back than.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    In euroleague it was 19 games played...16 games doesn't count only last 3 games counts ok
    Every game counts. Lekavicius had some good, some bad games, obviously struggling to shoot threes in those 16 games, but other than that was more or less spot on with 7-8pts average.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Nice hangover half of euroleague season.Lukas have no problems in defence, he don't need no help from teammates i don't understand why he plays only 19 min.He can score, who cares about playmaking and defence.
    The D is an issue, but not as huge. He will never play more than 25 minutes, so if it's not bonus time, he can simply commit a foul to avoid obvious miss-match. Some help is needed, but he's a good face to face defender, and hustles as nuts. As for playmaking, we all know how much you can get from him, he'll never be the best facilitator around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Sharas don't understand that basketball is changing?!

    Playing biggest minutes by players that's actually can defend everything ,but very limited offensively in Walkup,Ulanovas, Hayes.
    Didn't get this one. What Saras exactly doesn't understand, and how could I imply the idea that he doesn't? By saying that current Lekavicius should mess around offensively even more? Sure, I hold on this. That doesn't mean he should play more than 25 minutes. Just happy that Zalgiris playing a bit faster lately and both Lekavicius and Walcup have freedom to mess around a little bit more in transition.

    Playing guys who can defend multiple positions is exactly contemporary basketball. Why you even mention Wallcup (best shooter of Zalgiris this season), Hayes, Ulanovas? The latter 2 should should better, but that's all, they are all defensive players. Contemporary basketball is about all around skills and flexible D, not shooting alone.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 01-24-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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  16. #336
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    No shit!

    PS: You're amazing and obviously have zeeerooo clue about it.
    yup, I've got zero clue about the game which I've played and watched for 30 years now...nice to know that only SF has a slightest clue about basketball in Lithuania
    Can we call you the biggest unrealized basketball expert on the planet already?

  17. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    yup, I've got zero clue about the game which I've played and watched for 30 years now...nice to know that only SF has a slightest clue about basketball in Lithuania
    Can we call you the biggest unrealized basketball expert on the planet already?
    No Shit - "Used to express contemptuous acknowledgment of the obvious."
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  18. #338
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    No Shit - "Used to express contemptuous acknowledgment of the obvious."
    and my reply was to the second part of your post where you once again tried to patronize me or anybody else for that matter who disagrees with your basketball views...good day to you anyway sir, hopefully one day one of your favorite "young guns" will actually produce on court and lead our NT to medals again

  19. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    and my reply was to the second part of your post where you once again tried to patronize me or anybody else for that matter who disagrees with your basketball views...good day to you anyway sir, hopefully one day one of your favorite "young guns" will actually produce on court and lead our NT to medals again
    There's no favourites. Just good and bad. At least in the first place.
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  20. #340
    Member ZaliaBalta's Avatar
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    Seibutis is going to have a back surgery. Sounds like the end of his career, or maybe one or two seasons at some mid level LKL team after the rehabilitation..

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