Yeah, when dominant lumberjack center will appear on the map and will lead his team to title, we'll talk. Now there's no one in the map for 2 decades. Duncan is all time best power forward. Read the description of traditional center, please.
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostYeah, when dominant lumberjack center will appear on the map and will lead his team to title, we'll talk. Now there's no one in the map for 2 decades.
Basketball is a game of adjustments, both within a game as each team's momentum ebbs and flows together with from game-to-game. A coach with many different arrows in his quiver, or in more modern parlance a Magic card deck with different card strengths/abilities, has an advantage. That's why it helps a coach enormously if he has lumberjack cards in his deck.
Ideally of course a coach's cards aren't all single task cards. It's best when his cards are multi-taskers, lumberjacks who can still step back for a three on occasion and don't miss their free throws, sharp shooters who are also capable of dishing out at least their share of assists, defensive specialists who are also more than fence posts on offense, etc. No coach wants to make it easy for the other coach to make adjustments.
But like I say, a diverse deck of cards/players is an enormous advantage.
Originally posted by Straight forward View PostRead the description of traditional center, please.
I am assuming that your definition of a "lumberjack" is "Tall, powerful, dominant in the paint, but relatively slow-footed." In which case among Lithuanians, Arvydas Sabonis in the 1990's, Eurelijus Žukauskas, Žydrūnas Ilgauskas, the Lavrinovič brothers, Jonas Valančiūnas since he started playing in the NBA, Antanas Kavaliauskas, Laurynas Birutis, Martinas Geben and Mindaugas Kupšas would all be lumberjacks. Among NBA players Shaquille O'Neal would be your prototypical lumberjack. Bill Russell would be another. Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Bill Walton would be two more.
But how about Wilt Chamberlain, Akeem Olajuwon and Robertas Javtokas in the early years of this century? While these three were traditional centers, I'd argue that none were lumberjacks.
Last edited by Hepcat; 04-09-2021, 08:43 PM.
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Originally posted by madmax View PostBingo!
SF and his ilk like to pretend that traditional big man is redundant in today's game, while we have our own JV being probably the best player on his NBA team at the moment lol. Now let's try to teleport Wil, Kareem or prime Shaq into today's game and we're gonna pretend these guys wouldn't absolutely wreck the competition? They would be the best players today just like they were the best players back then. Right now the most talented players in the world are perimeter guys, but it doesn't mean it's gonna stay like this forever imo
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We can talk all we want about mobility and 3 pointers, but this season two best players is 2 skilled real 115kg centers that punishing this soft today's bigs inside and one of them will win MVP.
Teams already started adding extra big bodies to put againts those 2 strong dudes for playoofs serries.
If Jokic or Embid would win ring teams would add even more size in summer to their rosters just to beat them.
It's copy cat league, last year even Lakers had really big team too with Davis PF and LeBron SF playing like 50% of time.
Clippers couldn't stop Jokic and lost.Those mobile wings is not able to defend real big skilled centers.
Size still matters especially in playoofs when teams scout each other hard and game slows down.Those talks that all centers is not mattering anymore is gone too far, they still matter atleast for 20 min in each game.
Today basketball is played alot smarter than it used to be, you cant do same shit for 40 min and think it gonna work.
Best teams plays half time big and finishing games small.
Rockets experiment result shown you cant play without bigs for entire game and doesnt matter how could your guards is.Last edited by Shawshank; 04-10-2021, 01:43 AM.
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STF
U put % of todays our backourt players ale trying to show something .Im saying that 2017 guard lineup was simply better shooters combined ,but did it helped them if they couldnt stop no high quality guard?
Just on shooting element our backourt 2017>2021.
I dont believe that team that was in bottom end by shooting 3 pointers in 2019 will come in 2021 and will start hitting shots with the best shooting teams.Im not talking about some one game im talking about entire teams tournament shooting % (and game versus africa team was included too ).
Whats 2000s team have to do here? I was comparing 2017 and 2021 shooting abilites.
Thats Sirvydis will never be good defender i can bet big money on that and dont care how long his hands is.Such cocky brainless tatoo kids never cares about defence or sacrifising on that end.They care just about themselfs and looking cool That bad run nba team will find out that soon.
Last time i check our NT won medals playing defence,not jacking 3pointers.
If Seibutis,Kalnietis,Pocius was outplaying opponents guards 35-32 i take that i say backourt did their job.
I dont wanna see our guards scoring 45pts ,but letting opponnets guards score like 50 thats not winning basketball.Last edited by Shawshank; 04-10-2021, 02:21 AM.
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Originally posted by Svajunas View PostThey would wreck boards and would score a lot. But they would still be targeted on defence. Todays game is all about 3pt shots, teams are shooting twices as more threes compared to 00s. Traditional C's can't defend against that. Period. Everyone in NBA agrees on that.
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Hepcat, off course, couple of super dominant centers as Shaw would change a lot and It will probably happen at some point, but they would still already be different. Now coaches coaching bigs various skills.
Jokic and specially Embiid are not traditional bigs. Embiid is a unicorn, he does it all, even pretty agile at D. Jokic off course has some issues defensively, but compensates that to some extent with intuition and high IQ, but he's surely not traditional center, he shoots threes, he has mid range game, he has super special guard like passing skills, ect.
Shaw, come on, dude. Don't get primitive. Javtokas got some lame tatoo early on, but he's probably best defensive center we ever had. Sirvydis is not projected to be good defender, but to be decent/solid is up to realistic aim. Whoever he will be, it's stupid to relate this with tattoosLTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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Originally posted by Shawshank View PostGame tied and defensive type Rytas guard Bickauskis attacks Lekavicius in last attack. Even lkl teams attacking him. In close games in last 3 minutes Lukas cant be on the floor.
Coach must rotate his 18 energy minutes in such way that in last 3minutes he isnt playing too obviuos hole in defence.
I don't think any player likely to wilt under pressure at this level should be picked for the team. Twelve players doesn't leave room for a "tourist", particularly not at PG.
Last edited by Hepcat; 04-17-2021, 01:55 AM.
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Gotta give credit to Kalnietis. Not only he is the top passer in the VTB league (10apg), he also 4th most efficient player in the league. That's pretty impressive for 35yo veteran. VTB off course is not EL, but Kalnietis still should really be useful this summer. Lekavicius had up and down EL season, but he pretty much dominates LKL now and I believe with right screens (those tough ones of Domas/JV) he can again have a solid tournament. R. Giedraitis having terrific season. Grigonis current shape is a bit shaky, but I hope he'll be fine with Zalgiris PO schedule and some days off before Kaunas camp. Also Jokubaitis. There's no doubt it should be by far most talented backcourt since 2012, it's not even close. Now we're basically one elite guard away from being in legitimate position to challenge big dongs (Serbia, France, Spain) on regular basis. That is having a legitimate chance to take them down. We have to a agree that SG section with Grigonis, R.Giedraitis doesn't look bad at all for upcoming few years. It's not Macijauskas, Siska off course, but we used to have Seibutis and nothing else basically. I think with prime Jasikevicius in 2021 roster we would be legitimate contenders.LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostGotta give credit to Kalnietis. Not only he is the top passer in the VTB league (10apg), he also 4th most efficient player in the league.
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostShaw, come on, dude. Don't get primitive. Javtokas got some lame tatoo early on, but he's probably best defensive center we ever had. Sirvydis is not projected to be good defender, but to be decent/solid is up to realistic aim. Whoever he will be, it's stupid to relate this with tattoos
That accident changed him alot (he easily could lose that day not just basketball career,but life) .
Not everyone changes himself like that,but being like young arrogant Javtokas is nothing good for any kid.Thats ends badly in most cases.
Motiejunas was asshole as youngster and still is asshole. I see similiarities in young Dmo and young Sirvydis.
If Sirvydis manages somehwere is his life to find right way like Javtokas did ok,but i give more than 50% he wont.For such arrogant kids to make such huge changes in themself something dramatic must happen in their life .Getting nba money for nothing that only does bad things for kid.
I was reapeting same shit about young dmo and you were defending always. I see same arrogant character signs in Sirvydis now hopefully this time i will be wrong.Last edited by Shawshank; 04-18-2021, 05:05 PM.
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Mantas will have game this summer where he looks like old good Kalnietis,but in the next day game will look badly .
I still believe he will help alot in some panick game like he did in February.
To play one good game in VTB in one week no problems even at 35.
But play 5 games in 8 days in fiba tournaments thats huge chalenge at that age
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Originally posted by Straight forward View PostNow we're basically one elite guard away from being in legitimate position to challenge big dongs (Serbia, France, Spain) on regular basis
Originally posted by Shawshank View PostMantas will have game this summer where he looks like old good Kalnietis,but in the next day game will look badly .
I still believe he will help alot in some panick game like he did in February.
To play one good game in VTB in one week no problems even at 35.
But play 5 games in 8 days in fiba tournaments thats huge chalenge at that age
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Originally posted by Shawshank View PostJavtokas said himself he was stupid when he was young and did alot arrogant things in those podcast after retirement he gave.
That accident changed him alot (he easily could lose that day not just basketball career,but life) .
Not everyone changes himself like that,but being like young arrogant Javtokas is nothing good for any kid.Thats ends badly in most cases.
Motiejunas was asshole as youngster and still is asshole. I see similiarities in young Dmo and young Sirvydis.
If Sirvydis manages somehwere is his life to find right way like Javtokas did ok,but i give more than 50% he wont.For such arrogant kids to make such huge changes in themself something dramatic must happen in their life .Getting nba money for nothing that only does bad things for kid.
I was reapeting same shit about young dmo and you were defending always. I see same arrogant character signs in Sirvydis now hopefully this time i will be wrong.
Sirvydis to me more of naive than arrogant. A little bit of both of course. Who wasn't stupid while young? He's doing OK more or less, IMO.
DMo was one of the worst ever. I sense more that Murauskas has a bit of Dmo. Surely I don't see Sirvydis as DMo. He is a great system player and never wines about playing time or role. But even Dmo developed a lot as personality. I think that injury just screwed everything for him. There wouldn't be conflict with Adomaitis and other shit if not that injury. Yeah, DMo still is Dmo, but he went a long way as personality as well.
Sirvydis to me is just another young naive guy who currently goes through that syndrome and he should be fine with time, IMO.
Originally posted by Shawshank View PostMantas will have game this summer where he looks like old good Kalnietis,but in the next day game will look badly .
I still believe he will help alot in some panick game like he did in February.
To play one good game in VTB in one week no problems even at 35.
But play 5 games in 8 days in fiba tournaments thats huge chalenge at that ageLTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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Originally posted by Mindozas View PostIt should be a really elite doNg thenLTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:
Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
Buzelis, Lelevicius
Murauskas, Sirvydis
Tubelis, Krivas
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