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Naturalized Players in 2019 WC

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  • #46
    I cannot remember one of that kind. The question is what "Serbian" means? If a Montenegrin feels Serbian does it make him Serbian or is he Montenegrin when he's born in Montenegro? Such cases have existed and still exist in youth categories and are taken rather emotionally from both sides unfortunately. For A team there were Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia and also one of Macedonian heritage (but born in Serbia, Dragan Lukovski, if you remember). Also we cannot forget that Stojakovic, Gurovic and I think even Jaric held Greek/Serbian dual citizenship but the question where they belong I think is quite clear.

    For me it's a question of principles. I support the idea that a boy from Banja Luka and Trebinje plays for Serbia if it's his dream and he feels connected to this jersey but of course then we cannot complain about French Federation taking 12 year old boys from Mali and Senegal. I hope that you got what I meant.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
      I cannot remember one of that kind. The question is what "Serbian" means? If a Montenegrin feels Serbian does it make him Serbian or is he Montenegrin when he's born in Montenegro? Such cases have existed and still exist in youth categories and are taken rather emotionally from both sides unfortunately. For A team there were Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia and also one of Macedonian heritage (but born in Serbia, Dragan Lukovski, if you remember). Also we cannot forget that Stojakovic, Gurovic and I think even Jaric held Greek/Serbian dual citizenship but the question where they belong I think is quite clear.
      It's definitely more complicated with ex-Yu. IBN's geneology expert, serbianhoops, might know this better... On top of ethnicity, new countries came into existence during the lifetime of most recent players.

      I do remember Lukovski of course, very good example. Unless he has Serbian ethnicity, he qualifies for "my description" of naturalized player as he was born in Skopje (when it was part of Yugoslavia) and his parents (?) were N. Macedonian.

      Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
      For me it's a question of principles. I support the idea that a boy from Banja Luka and Trebinje plays for Serbia if it's his dream and he feels connected to this jersey but of course then we cannot complain about French Federation taking 12 year old boys from Mali and Senegal. I hope that you got what I meant.
      I agree with you here, but I don't find the two cases similar.

      First case is common, and I think those kids should count as eligible for Serbia, no naturalization should apply. Like Cedi Osman of Turkey. or, Ismet Akpinar of Germany, whichever country he chose.

      French Federation can bring the Senegalese kids of course, and give them passports, but they should count as "naturalized" for French NT imho, and 100% eligible for Senegal NT.
      5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Valexander View Post
        there is a question on what is really represented in those tournaments.

        1. There is an opinion which says that every team represents a nation. Their people are proud to see them fighting or embarassed to watch them not bleeding their shirts. It's an honour to wear the national flag, or listen to the National anthem etc.
        2. The other opinion, is that every NT, represents the effort of each nation to evolve the sport, from amateur/youth projects, to the federation and back.

        Although i am much more closer to the second one, let's say the truth is somewhere between the middle.
        Nah mate, for me it's simple - NT tournaments are not for sport evolving, it's to show where exactly you are, how good you are, how well did you evolve from last tournament i.e.. That was the idea since very beginning of team tournaments in any given sport - competing between nations, deciding the best one. While when "evolving" between tournaments - do whatever you want, sign foreign coaches to teach locals, foreign players to whom local could look up for, send locals abroad, fund more money, whatever. But when NT tournament comes - local players should play

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Valexander View Post
          Still i can understand why Philippines were in need of a Blatche. But please no more JR holdens, that's a joke.
          And Blatche is not a joke? Holden played professionally in Russia before he received his passport. When did Blatche ever play professionally in Philippines?

          Frankly anyone who has not spent at least 365 days in the country he represents (as verified by his passport entry/exit stamps) is a joke. If I were in a position I would impose a limit of 1000 days or roughly three yeras for all naturalized players before they are able to suit up. The "native" players should have spent at least 3000 days or at least 8 years in the country. That would disqualify half the Philippine team.
          aim low, score high

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Mindozas View Post
            Nah mate, for me it's simple - NT tournaments are not for sport evolving, it's to show where exactly you are, how good you are, how well did you evolve from last tournament i.e.. That was the idea since very beginning of team tournaments in any given sport - competing between nations, deciding the best one. While when "evolving" between tournaments - do whatever you want, sign foreign coaches to teach locals, foreign players to whom local could look up for, send locals abroad, fund more money, whatever. But when NT tournament comes - local players should play
            My point was simple too. A NT does not represent it’s nation in general but the specific sport and the effort in terms of science /facilities /organization. Therefore I am also in the opinion of being represented by locals. But locals as a project, from youth till his professional career, of the domestic sport industry and not about color or identity.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by sinobball View Post
              And Blatche is not a joke? Holden played professionally in Russia before he received his passport. When did Blatche ever play professionally in Philippines?

              Frankly anyone who has not spent at least 365 days in the country he represents (as verified by his passport entry/exit stamps) is a joke. If I were in a position I would impose a limit of 1000 days or roughly three yeras for all naturalized players before they are able to suit up. The "native" players should have spent at least 3000 days or at least 8 years in the country. That would disqualify half the Philippine team.

              Blatche is not a joke at the time they decided to allow it and especially for which country! So if it was a temporary period of time in which they wanted to give motivation to the third world (on b-ball terms, like UK also), then we could discuss. But it was not like that.

              If you ask me I find the 365 or 3 years or 5 years as a joke too.
              James gist was once close to be eligible to play for Greece and there was an unofficial ‘“light” discussion about it. He was interested after 7 years in Greece and there were jokes at the time like “Gistopoulos”!! Nothing racist on laughing about it. But it would have been a weird joke if this would have happened

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              • #52
                Well Gist is as much greek as Nick the quick Calathes so nothing funny about it imo

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
                  Well Gist is as much greek as Nick the quick Calathes so nothing funny about it imo
                  If Donte di Vincenzo will get italian passport before next summer ,i 'm so curious to see in that way FIBA will consider him,because he has italian blood(his grandpa is italian) like calathes has greek blood and both have took italian or greek citizen after 16 Years old
                  Last edited by Italian Pride; 08-27-2019, 08:10 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
                    Well Gist is as much greek as Nick the quick Calathes so nothing funny about it imo
                    if you are referring to my comment then you should go back and see what I wrote about Calathes.
                    On the other hand every case is different, no, Calathes and Gist are not in the same debate. Although the rules should be clear for any case.
                    About the sense of humor that's not objective anyway. You can laugh with the "Gistopoulos" joke, as he did, but you can stay untouched because in your pov Calathes is the same case...

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                    • #55
                      Calathes doesnt even have "greek blood"(stupid term but anyway).He was adopted.But i dont care about "bloods".We've had this conversation before.Every american except for native americans could play for some other national team according to this logic.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
                        Calathes doesnt even have "greek blood"(stupid term but anyway).He was adopted.But i dont care about "bloods".We've had this conversation before.Every american except for native americans could play for some other national team according to this logic.
                        Doesn t have calathes greek grandpa?

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                        • #57
                          yeah,so?Every american has a grandpa or great grandpa or a great great grandpa born elsewhere.To me the fact that some fans are ok with the naturalization of americans if their grandpa is from their new country but get enraged with the Andray Blatches and Bo Mcallebs of this world is hypocritical.I see no difference in all those cases.They are americans who for one reason or another chose to represent another NT

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by CoachZ View Post
                            I am not a fan of naturalized players, not in the sense of race but in the sense of importing finished talent from another country. To elaborate further:

                            - I have no problems with a kid from let's say Congo moving to Italy at the age of 12 and becoming a future NT player. Italy is the integral part of both his personal and professional life.
                            - To me a guy like Calathes is a much bigger issue, than let's say Nikola Mirotic. Calathes beside having Greek roots, has nothing to do with Greece until he became a pro basketball player. Same can be said about Galis.
                            - I would make a system, which would outlaw guys like Dixon, Wilbekin, Draper, Holden etc. These are guys which have no prayers representing the NTs of their home countries and end up playing for the highest bidder.
                            I agree. Here in Canada we've always accepted hockey star Stan Mikita as a Canadian even though he didn't emigrate to Canada until he was eight years old. The key though was that he came to Canada at a young age. He didn't come to Canada as a young adult simply to pursue a professional hockey career.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by usagre View Post
                              Some USA examples.I agree with the Patrick Ewing case. Came over from Jamaica as a kid 11-12 years old and became a citizen while in college. That’s acceptable to me. I disagree with the Hakeem Olajuwon case where he became a citizen at 30 primarily to be eligible for Dream Team 2 in 1996. And he had previously represented Nigeria in youth competitions.
                              I agree.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mindozas View Post
                                There's no nationalism here, but we are talking about national teams competition. With even 1 naturalized player it loses its sense. Yeah, I can accept such cases like Giannis, he is perfectly Greek by birth, I can accept cases when one of the parents is native, but kid has been born abroad. There are so many such cases nowadays, even with pro players involved and globalisation/migration being at fullest. But all these naturalized players who has nothing to do with a country is just stupid. I don't have any expectations that FIBA will drop it, but they could at least add another criteria - player must play in that country continuously for a few years to be available, let's say 3
                                I agree.

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