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Naturalized Players in 2019 WC
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Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.
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In 2004 Ramstein wrote a hit song with the lyrics, "We're all living in America." Is it racist if you don't want the whole world to be the same and look like America? Nothing against America, it's just nice to have places that are different and maintain their culture isn't it?
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To be honest, most of the problems on this topic always come to some people have problems with color of skin of some players. I might step on some toes, but here it goes:
- There are people in this forum that have challenged the notion that Giannis is Greek, due to the fact he is black and his parents were born in Nigeria. Despite the fact that he was born in Athens and that is the only country he has ever known. Since when does the color of your skin determines your nationality? Blacks, whites, asians, inuit or mixed, whatever genetic group a person belongs too, has little to do with his nationality, which stems from the geographical location, a country he was born in or adopted at a later stage.
- There are people that would have a problem with seeing a black guy in their NT (some Lith forum members have talked about this in the past, that there are people like that in Lith, and I can attest to that from the Serbian side as well). The funny part, this has already happened in Serbia, but I think some people in the federation have kept it low key on purpose. Stefan Peno is mixed-race, his mother is from Guayana.
- There is still a significant portion of people who believe in "superior" athletic skills of certain races. This is of course, has been debunked many times by serious scientific studies.
I am not a fan of naturalized players, not in the sense of race but in the sense of importing finished talent from another country. To elaborate further:
- I have no problems with a kid from let's say Congo moving to Italy at the age of 12 and becoming a future NT player. Italy is the integral part of both his personal and professional life.
- To me a guy like Calathes is a much bigger issue, than let's say Nikola Mirotic. Calathes beside having Greek roots, has nothing to do with Greece until he became a pro basketball player. Same can be said about Galis.
- I would make a system, which would outlaw guys like Dixon, Wilbekin, Draper, Holden etc. These are guys which have no prayers representing the NTs of their home countries and end up playing for the highest bidder.
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Originally posted by CoachZ View Post- I would make a system, which would outlaw guys like Dixon, Wilbekin, Draper, Holden etc. These are guys which have no prayers representing the NTs of their home countries and end up playing for the highest bidder.Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.
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Some USA examples.
I agree with the Patrick Ewing case. Came over from Jamaica as a kid 11-12 years old and became a citizen while in college. That’s acceptable to me. I disagree with the Hakeem Olajuwon case where he became a citizen at 30 primarily to be eligible for Dream Team 2 in 1996. And he had previously represented Nigeria in youth competitions.Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.
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It varies from sport to sport but I prefer when rules are oriented towards fielding a national team that reflects the level of basketball development in a country. This can be a bit tricky when players from one country move to another at a young age specifically to take advantage of another country’s development system but it doesn’t really seem right to me to have a player who’s hardly set foot in a country before being given citizenship to be allowed on the national team. Even if FIBA never does away with the naturalized player spot I’d like to see a rule where the naturalized player needs to have played a certain number of years in the country they wish to represent before becoming eligible.
I also don’t like the double standards that seem to exist around these rules with FIBA. Why is it ok that nearly the entire Nigerian team be made up of players raised in other countries while others have severe restrictions? I get that they may want to allow this to grow the game there but it still doesn’t seem right.
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Originally posted by usagre View PostExcellent post. Honestly I don’t understand how this has become acceptable. It makes absolutely no sense. These aren’t club teams. Randolph is another one and he’s played for two countries. To me eliminating this process is a no brainer.
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Originally posted by Mindozas View PostFIBA decided that it's a great help in development of basketball in smaller bball nations. The same way they decided that new windows system will help a lot... It's just stupid. There's no nationalism here, but we are talking about national teams competition. With even 1 naturalized player it loses its sense. Yeah, I can accept such cases like Giannis, he is perfectly Greek by birth, I can accept cases when one of the parents is native, but kid has been born abroad. There are so many such cases nowadays, even with pro players involved and globalisation/migration being at fullest. But all these naturalized players who has nothing to do with a country is just stupid. I don't have any expectations that FIBA will drop it, but they could at least add another criteria - player must play in that country continuously for a few years to be available, let's say 3To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..
1 Big 4 small > 5 out offense.
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I don't really see what's wrong with the Nigerian team. I find it quite funny actually, if i'm not mistaken black americans called African Americans so they're proud of their heritage their bloodline.
Since they have Nigerian parents i see no problem with them playing with the Nigerian NT.
I live in France so I will give an other perspective, Fifa allows every athletes to play for every nation they have a clear connection with.
So in the last World Cup or Can, a shiload of French born players played for African NT even though a lot of them represented France in youth competitions ( Aubameyang,Bennacer, Feghouli and the list goes on and on ... )
In France as you might understand this regulation raised a lot of questions why should the federation invest lot of money in dual citenzhip players since they might play in the future for a different NT but obvisouly despite some ideas about changing the system nothing has been implemented yet nor it will.
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there is a question on what is really represented in those tournaments.
1. There is an opinion which says that every team represents a nation. Their people are proud to see them fighting or embarassed to watch them not bleeding their shirts. It's an honour to wear the national flag, or listen to the National anthem etc.
2. The other opinion, is that every NT, represents the effort of each nation to evolve the sport, from amateur/youth projects, to the federation and back.
Although i am much more closer to the second one, let's say the truth is somewhere between the middle.
Giannis case is easy, and not only because he is Greek. That's not debatable, but mostly because there are a hanful of nations that a talented 2nd generation immigrant has the best chances to get closer to that sport.
Calathes case although is more blur. We already see national federations arround the world waiting like hittmans to run after 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants to secure their passport. See Mitrou-long case for example. There has to be more clear and strict restrictions, and i think fiba is doing that.
Still i can understand why Philippines were in need of a Blatche. But please no more JR holdens, that's a joke.
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Originally posted by CoachZ View PostTo be honest, most of the problems on this topic always come to some people have problems with color of skin of some players. I might step on some toes, but here it goes:
- There are people in this forum that have challenged the notion that Giannis is Greek, due to the fact he is black and his parents were born in Nigeria. Despite the fact that he was born in Athens and that is the only country he has ever known. Since when does the color of your skin determines your nationality? Blacks, whites, asians, inuit or mixed, whatever genetic group a person belongs too, has little to do with his nationality, which stems from the geographical location, a country he was born in or adopted at a later stage.
- There are people that would have a problem with seeing a black guy in their NT (some Lith forum members have talked about this in the past, that there are people like that in Lith, and I can attest to that from the Serbian side as well). The funny part, this has already happened in Serbia, but I think some people in the federation have kept it low key on purpose. Stefan Peno is mixed-race, his mother is from Guayana.
- There is still a significant portion of people who believe in "superior" athletic skills of certain races. This is of course, has been debunked many times by serious scientific studies.
I am not a fan of naturalized players, not in the sense of race but in the sense of importing finished talent from another country. To elaborate further:
- I have no problems with a kid from let's say Congo moving to Italy at the age of 12 and becoming a future NT player. Italy is the integral part of both his personal and professional life.
- To me a guy like Calathes is a much bigger issue, than let's say Nikola Mirotic. Calathes beside having Greek roots, has nothing to do with Greece until he became a pro basketball player. Same can be said about Galis.
- I would make a system, which would outlaw guys like Dixon, Wilbekin, Draper, Holden etc. These are guys which have no prayers representing the NTs of their home countries and end up playing for the highest bidder.
Is Borisa Simanic (Serb from Bosnia) less Serbian because he is born in Bosnia? What about Nick Rakocevic? For you Bosnian/American or Serbian? Of course I'm not speaking about blood/heritage but availability to play for Serbia.
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Originally posted by CoachZ View Post- There are people in this forum that have challenged the notion that Giannis is Greek, due to the fact he is black and his parents were born in Nigeria. Despite the fact that he was born in Athens and that is the only country he has ever known. Since when does the color of your skin determines your nationality? Blacks, whites, asians, inuit or mixed, whatever genetic group a person belongs too, has little to do with his nationality, which stems from the geographical location, a country he was born in or adopted at a later stage.
A similar thing happens in football with Germany and France. there it's about "identity" not passport, but equally hypocrite.
Originally posted by CoachZ View Post- There are people that would have a problem with seeing a black guy in their NT (some Lith forum members have talked about this in the past, that there are people like that in Lith, and I can attest to that from the Serbian side as well). The funny part, this has already happened in Serbia, but I think some people in the federation have kept it low key on purpose. Stefan Peno is mixed-race, his mother is from Guayana.
Originally posted by CoachZ View Post- There is still a significant portion of people who believe in "superior" athletic skills of certain races. This is of course, has been debunked many times by serious scientific studies.
Originally posted by CoachZ View PostI am not a fan of naturalized players, not in the sense of race but in the sense of importing finished talent from another country. To elaborate further:
- I have no problems with a kid from let's say Congo moving to Italy at the age of 12 and becoming a future NT player. Italy is the integral part of both his personal and professional life.
Originally posted by CoachZ View Post- To me a guy like Calathes is a much bigger issue, than let's say Nikola Mirotic. Calathes beside having Greek roots, has nothing to do with Greece until he became a pro basketball player. Same can be said about Galis.
Originally posted by CoachZ View Post- I would make a system, which would outlaw guys like Dixon, Wilbekin, Draper, Holden etc. These are guys which have no prayers representing the NTs of their home countries and end up playing for the highest bidder.
another thing with this is, the stimulation they are supposed to bring is questionable: how did N. Macedonian bball improve after Bo McCalebb? How did Russia do after Holden? How did our bball benefit from Dixon or Wilbekin?
the only thing they did, at least in my eyes, was to stain these counties' successes. I will always attribute less credit to Russia & Slovenia for their EC title, and N. Macedonia for their semi-final (this of course is something no one cares about, just my own rant).5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.
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Originally posted by Katastroika View PostI fully agree with you. But just to view the complex Situation out of our Serbian perspective.
Is Borisa Simanic (Serb from Bosnia) less Serbian because he is born in Bosnia? What about Nick Rakocevic? For you Bosnian/American or Serbian? Of course I'm not speaking about blood/heritage but availability to play for Serbia.
I was wondering something along the similar lines: Was there ever a Serbian NT player from ex-Yu countries born out of Serbian borders and without a Serbian heritage? (for ex, Montenegrin, Bosnian Muslim, Croatian, Slovenian etc). Because that would be naturalization.5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.
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