Euroleague/Club Competition 2019-20: Signings & Rumours - vol. I

[Tevfik1907]

Wilbekin and Micic are very different players who practically play a different position and it's silly to compare the two.

I don't know if Maccabi would've made the F4 this year or not, but they were tied for fourth despite losing half their roster to injury. Wilbekin was 1st in 3-pointers (was going to set a single-season record), 5th in scoring per game, extremely efficient at 58% eFG%. Larkin just had the best season any guard has had in EL perhaps ever, so that's not a fair comparison, but Wilbekin is pretty clearly an elite EL guard at this point.

Fener is unlikely to find a guard who is close to his level for the foreseeable future -- you might think Efes might be lucky, but they went out and identified and signed two elite guards. Fener's main problem that's gotten themselves into this situation is recycling older players and demonstrating a complete lack of creativity. You could've signed Wilbekin, who was probably your best bet to keep up with Efes, or you could've signed another mystery high-upside guard in his 20s -- but the thinking that adding de Colo to an old, tired backcourt of Sloukas and Dixon was the problem.

Yeah, you did that, by mentioning his name for no reason when I was talking about Micic and Larkin. If you think Wilbekin is a top level guard in Euroleague, you should think again.

Wilbekin was never the top guard in Euroleague, there are other reasons why Maccabi was in the 5th place (and it's not like being 5th is a success or anything), and it's not because of Wilbekin only. You should watch the games more carefully.

Close to whose level? Wilbekin's? No, we don't need that. Wilbekin doesn't carry you anywhere. He was the back-up guard in Daçka when Wanamaker was playing, and we bought Wanamaker, not the second guard of Daçka, and even Wanamaker is limited, and he isn't exactly the best option, but clearly he is still better than Wilbekin. I remember you were overrating Wilbekin, it's like you know the guy or something, (is he your friend?) and you still do that. No one said anything about Wilbekin, and we don't want to buy Wilbekin, so stop mentioning his name for no reason.

Even Sloukas and Dixon has far better careers and accomplishments than Wilbekin has currently, and comparing him to De Colo would be an insult to De Colo. You may think Wilbekin is better than Sloukas, but Real doesn't try to buy Wilbekin if they are going to lose Campazzo, they will try to buy Sloukas instead. That's the reality. We don't need Wilbekin, he can't carry a team in Euroleague if that team is going play in Final Four.

[Katastroika]

Walkup is a steady rumour in media here, zvezda seems to have big interest. Would be a good solution but I think that if he can chose he will stay in Lithuania and on the other hand chance is pretty big that bigger clubs will be after him, too.

About Ulanovas: My 5 cent. I don't care about the money because Fener is not my team but there is no Euroleague team that wouldn't wish to have this player in their rotation. Old school type of player with some deficits but A LOT of surplusses on the other side of the scale.

In fact Ulanovas is the prime example what we in Serbia call a Lithuanian player. He would rather die than give up and not hunt enemies through blocks, he'll box out at minus 30 and plus 30 and he is much more athletic than he seems to be on the first look, he doesn't shy contact at all, he penetrates and has as many mentioned one of the best back to the basket repertoires in all EL in his positioin. Top asset. I am sure Kokoskov will be happy with him a lot.

[GatorsGators]

Yeah, you did that, by mentioning his name for no reason when I was talking about Micic and Larkin. If you think Wilbekin is a top level guard in Euroleague, you should think again.

Wilbekin was never the top guard in Euroleague, there are other reasons why Maccabi was in the 5th place (and it's not like being 5th is a success or anything), and it's not because of Wilbekin only. You should watch the games more carefully.

Close to whose level? Wilbekin's? No, we don't need that. Wilbekin doesn't carry you anywhere. He was the back-up guard in Daçka when Wanamaker was playing, and we bought Wanamaker, not the second guard of Daçka, and even Wanamaker is limited, and he isn't exactly the best option, but clearly he is still better than Wilbekin. I remember you were overrating Wilbekin, it's like you know the guy or something, (is he your friend?) and you still do that. No one said anything about Wilbekin, and we don't want to buy Wilbekin, so stop mentioning his name for no reason.

Even Sloukas and Dixon has far better careers and accomplishments than Wilbekin has currently, and comparing him to De Colo would be an insult to De Colo. You may think Wilbekin is better than Sloukas, but Real doesn't try to buy Wilbekin if they are going to lose Campazzo, they will try to buy Sloukas instead. That's the reality. We don't need Wilbekin, he can't carry a team in Euroleague if that team is going play in Final Four.

I brought up Wilbekin because he's probably the most well-known example of Fener's lack of creativity in roster-building the past several seasons. Fener had a prime opportunity to sign him after his Eurocup MVP season given his Turkish citizenship but wasn't interested, and chose to give a 35-year-old Bobby Dixon a 3-year extension instead.

That's a clear contrast from Efes, who have consistently chosen to go younger and higher-upside. Sure, there are cases where it hasn't worked -- see Errick McCollum -- but high-risk, high-reward. Clearly it's working with Larkin and Micic.

Teams shouldn't pay for past performance. de Colo is obviously one of the best guards of the past decade in Europe, but expecting him to be a cornerstone in his mid-to-late 30s is bad roster creation lacking foresight or creativity. Paying Sloukas like an elite player because he was a backup on some championship teams is bad roster creation lacking foresight or creativity.

Your insistence that Wilbekin isn't an elite guard because he doesn't have team accomplishments in EL yet is pretty silly, and implying that I'm simply not watching Maccabi games closely enough is insulting. Maccabi lost three starters from their team due to injury last season early on (Wolters, Casspi, Black) but Wilbekin creates gravity and puts pressure on defenses with his shot potential unlike any other player currently in Europe. Having Dorsey and Hunter step up certainly helped -- but that Maccabi team is nothing without Wilbekin's offensive presence. Also the two names that Real has been rumored to be linked to in the case of a Campazzo NBA contract are Larkin and Wilbekin -- not Sloukas.

But don't let a disagreement about a player here distract from the point I'm trying to make -- Efes got "lucky" because their strategy has been high-risk, high-reward. Fener hasn't gotten "lucky" because they haven't taken any risks and have been going after old, expensive big names. Like Milano.

[Jazz]

Teams shouldn't pay for past performance. de Colo is obviously one of the best guards of the past decade in Europe, but expecting him to be a cornerstone in his mid-to-late 30s is bad roster creation lacking foresight or creativity.

People always exaggerate the ages of players on this forum. De Colo has only just turned 33!

[GatorsGators]

People always exaggerate the ages of players on this forum. De Colo has only just turned 33!

Ha, fair, but I don't think that takes away from my point -- Fener has gotten old, slow, and expensive. They need an infusion of youth and upside. Johnny Hamilton is a start.

[CoachZ]

People always exaggerate the ages of players on this forum. De Colo has only just turned 33!

So, tell me how is the history of European guards aging in EL looking like? Spanoulis is the last guy to have a top season and he was 32.

Even Diamantidis lost it after 32-3. He was still great, but not dominant.

[Tevfik1907]

I brought up Wilbekin because he's probably the most well-known example of Fener's lack of creativity in roster-building the past several seasons. Fener had a prime opportunity to sign him after his Eurocup MVP season given his Turkish citizenship but wasn't interested, and chose to give a 35-year-old Bobby Dixon a 3-year extension instead.

That's a clear contrast from Efes, who have consistently chosen to go younger and higher-upside. Sure, there are cases where it hasn't worked -- see Errick McCollum -- but high-risk, high-reward. Clearly it's working with Larkin and Micic.

Teams shouldn't pay for past performance. de Colo is obviously one of the best guards of the past decade in Europe, but expecting him to be a cornerstone in his mid-to-late 30s is bad roster creation lacking foresight or creativity. Paying Sloukas like an elite player because he was a backup on some championship teams is bad roster creation lacking foresight or creativity.

Your insistence that Wilbekin isn't an elite guard because he doesn't have team accomplishments in EL yet is pretty silly, and implying that I'm simply not watching Maccabi games closely enough is insulting. Maccabi lost three starters from their team due to injury last season early on (Wolters, Casspi, Black) but Wilbekin creates gravity and puts pressure on defenses with his shot potential unlike any other player currently in Europe. Having Dorsey and Hunter step up certainly helped -- but that Maccabi team is nothing without Wilbekin's offensive presence. Also the two names that Real has been rumored to be linked to in the case of a Campazzo NBA contract are Larkin and Wilbekin -- not Sloukas.

But don't let a disagreement about a player here distract from the point I'm trying to make -- Efes got "lucky" because their strategy has been high-risk, high-reward. Fener hasn't gotten "lucky" because they haven't taken any risks and have been going after old, expensive big names. Like Milano.

First of all, Dixon was more experienced, and he won't make a big problem when he was benched, and Dixon already knew Obradovic's system, I doubt Wilbekin could play that system, in the best scenario, it would take a serious time for him to learn our system. So it wouldn't be effective, the decision to keep Dixon was right at that moment.

If you are curious what was the difference between Dixon's prime and Wilbekin, Dixon won the Turkish league against us in 2015, when we had the team that actually played in Euroleague Final Four 2015, Dixon carried Karşıyaka team and won the Turkish league against a Euroleague Final Four level team in 2015. Wilbekin never did that in Turkish league against us, Dixon did. Dixon in his prime, both in Turkish league, and in Euroleague, he showed more than Wilbekin showed so far at the top level.


You know Wilbekin played in Turkish league for years right? And you know I watched many games of his right? He is definitely not an elite Euroleague guard, I can tell that by watching his games, and the fact that no top Euroleague team bought him so far or any NBA team wanted to give him another try is the proof of that. Being Eurocup mvp doesn't make him an elite guard in Euroleague, you should've known that if you are going to talk about European basketball, best players in Eurocup and FIBA Champions league can be role players in Euroleague, considering that they won't grow and improve, that's the reality.

And you don't become an elite player in Euroleague by not playing in Final Fours. If you are an elite player, you would play in Final Fours and you would've a team accomplishment in Euroleague, because; you either carry your team to that level or if the rest of your team is very bad then a top Euroleague team would buy that player, or that player goes to a top team. Or that player would go to NBA. That's how it is. Wanamaker played playoffs in Euroleague with Daçka, he carried the team, and he was the best player in Daçka, and we bought him in the next season. Wilbekin wasn't even the top 2 player of that Daçka team, it was Wanamaker and then Clyburn.

Again, it's like you don't read. I mentioned Guduric specifically, and I mentioned how we even payed buyout for him, so he could be effective as Micic and Larkin, but he never did, he wasn't bad, but he wasn't great either. Then what happened? Guduric went to NBA, and Micic is still here despite being better than Guduric. That's being unlucky, we never had the opportunity to continue with our elite top players after our achivements, we always forced to buy other players after the next season because of NBA, whenever they reach that level they went to NBA; Udoh, Bogdanovic, Melli etc. And even Guduric, even he went to NBA, when he wasn't as good as Micic, but Micic still stays in Efes and doesn't go to NBA, that's lucky for Efes. In normal circumstances, Micic should've gone to NBA, not Guduric. Because Micic was better than Guduric, and they are also around at the same age as well. But somehow Efes manages to keep Micic, while we don't even manage to keep Guduric. I am not even talking about Melli, Udoh etc. We are probably number 1 team when it comes to sending players to NBA from Euroleague.

When Micic went to Efes, he was already a player that played in Final Four with Zalgris. And Efes bought Larkin from NBA as well. There was no ''high-risk'' in these transfers, I don't know where did you get that. What I meant that, these players improved a lot in just 1 year, and unlike with our players, they don't go to NBA after their achivements in Final Four, that's what I meant by Efes being lucky.

[Jazz]

Ha, fair, but I don't think that takes away from my point -- Fener has gotten old, slow, and expensive. They need an infusion of youth and upside. Johnny Hamilton is a start.

Ah, no problem. I agree with your overall point about Fener.

So, tell me how is the history of European guards aging in EL looking like? Spanoulis is the last guy to have a top season and he was 32.

Even Diamantidis lost it after 32-3. He was still great, but not dominant.

I take your point Coach, I just find it funny when we make some of these guys out to be even older than they actually are.

As for Diamantidis, he was really heroic in that first season after Obradovic. He got PAO close to a F4 with a much worse roster and coach. He was 32/33 that season and obviously was great at both ends of the floor. As we know, De Colo doesn't worry too much about the defensive side.

[Tevfik1907]

Also the two names that Real has been rumored to be linked to in the case of a Campazzo NBA contract are Larkin and Wilbekin -- not Sloukas.
.

Also, not sure if you are actually following European basketball, they told us that Real is after Sloukas. You should show your source, I wonder if it's recent or if it is up to date.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/1078155/real-madrid-reportedly-strongly-considering-sloukas-as-potential-campazzo-replacement/

This was only a couple of days ago.

[vivo]

Also I laugh at people thinking they are managers here or on Twitter. "Yada yada why didn't we bring Lucic or Giedraitis" the first one has what, 3 more years of contract? Second one wanted to be in Baskonia maybe? There are way too many factors to transfer a player but people act like it's football manager and you can save/load until you grab a player. If anyone thinks they would be great managers try it out guys, apparently we have a lack of it in Europe

[GatorsGators]

First of all, Dixon was more experienced, and he won't make a big problem when he was benched, and Dixon already knew Obradovic's system, I doubt Wilbekin could play that system, in the best scenario, it would take a serious time for him to learn our system. So it wouldn't be effective, the decision to keep Dixon was right at that moment.

If you are curious what was the difference between Dixon's prime and Wilbekin, Dixon won the Turkish league against us in 2015, when we had the team that actually played in Euroleague Final Four 2015, Dixon carried Karşıyaka team and won the Turkish league against a Euroleague Final Four level team in 2015. Wilbekin never did that in Turkish league against us, Dixon did. Dixon in his prime, both in Turkish league, and in Euroleague, he showed more than Wilbekin showed so far at the top level.


You know Wilbekin played in Turkish league for years right? And you know I watched many games of his right? He is definitely not an elite Euroleague guard, I can tell that by watching his games, and the fact that no top Euroleague team bought him so far or any NBA team wanted to give him another try is the proof of that. Being Eurocup mvp doesn't make him an elite guard in Euroleague, you should've known that if you are going to talk about European basketball, best players in Eurocup and FIBA Champions league can be role players in Euroleague, considering that they won't grow and improve, that's the reality.

And you don't become an elite player in Euroleague by not playing in Final Fours. If you are an elite player, you would play in Final Fours and you would've a team accomplishment in Euroleague, because; you either carry your team to that level or if the rest of your team is very bad then a top Euroleague team would buy that player, or that player goes to a top team. Or that player would go to NBA. That's how it is. Wanamaker played playoffs in Euroleague with Daçka, he carried the team, and he was the best player in Daçka, and we bought him in the next season. Wilbekin wasn't even the top 2 player of that Daçka team, it was Wanamaker and then Clyburn.

Again, it's like you don't read. I mentioned Guduric specifically, and I mentioned how we even payed buyout for him, so he could be effective as Micic and Larkin, but he never did, he wasn't bad, but he wasn't great either. Then what happened? Guduric went to NBA, and Micic is still here despite being better than Guduric. That's being unlucky, we never had the opportunity to continue with our elite top players after our achivements, we always forced to buy other players after the next season because of NBA, whenever they reach that level they went to NBA; Udoh, Bogdanovic, Melli etc. And even Guduric, even he went to NBA, when he wasn't as good as Micic, but Micic still stays in Efes and doesn't go to NBA, that's lucky for Efes. In normal circumstances, Micic should've gone to NBA, not Guduric. Because Micic was better than Guduric, and they are also around at the same age as well. But somehow Efes manages to keep Micic, while we don't even manage to keep Guduric. I am not even talking about Melli, Udoh etc. We are probably number 1 team when it comes to sending players to NBA from Euroleague.

When Micic went to Efes, he was already a player that played in Final Four with Zalgris. And Efes bought Larkin from NBA as well. There was no ''high-risk'' in these transfers, I don't know where did you get that. What I meant that, these players improved a lot in just 1 year, and unlike with our players, they don't go to NBA after their achivements in Final Four, that's what I meant by Efes being lucky.

I'm aware of Dixon's Turkish league MVP and title season with Karsiyaka. I'm not taking anything away from his career -- he was a terrific player in his prime.

But do you know how old Dixon was when he won his title in Karsiyaka? 31.

Do you know how old Wilbekin was in his seasons with Darussafaka which you're using as your evidence that he's not, nor ever will be, an elite EL guard? 23-25.

What was Dixon doing at that age? He was bouncing around the French and Italian leagues.

I got your point about Guduric and Micic, but I think it's silly to dismiss Efes' success purely as "luck" when there clearly is a big difference in the two clubs' operating philosophies over the past few years.

Fener is catching players during the ends of their primes. The way you're speaking, you'd think the current ideal EL backcourt is Teodosic, Llull, Spanoulis, because if you're only willing to sign guys with team EL accomplishments, you're going to end up old.

Wilbekin was just entering his prime when he had that EC MVP and title season at 25. And he just had an objectively elite EL season, leading the EL in 3s, 5th in scoring, as the clear leader of a team that was right there in terms of Final Four contention at 27. To dismiss him as an elite player now is simply hard-headedness, and he's in the early stages of his prime.

Teams have to sacrifice "accomplished" players for youth/upside. Fener hasn't done that -- and that's why they're in the position they are. Efes may have gotten a bit lucky, but there's nothing unlucky about Fener's current spot. They're here because their leaders have lacked vision and have a terrible scouting department.

[GatorsGators]

Also, not sure if you are actually following European basketball, they told us that Real is after Sloukas. You should show your source, I wonder if it's recent or if it is up to date.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/1078155/real-madrid-reportedly-strongly-considering-sloukas-as-potential-campazzo-replacement/

This was only a couple of days ago.

The same rumors that cite Sloukas as an option for Real cite that Larkin and Wilbekin were their initial targets before the coronavirus stop made spending the buyout on those players a financial fantasy.

But Real operates differently than most EL clubs -- they don't need to sign big FAs from other EL/EC/BCL clubs. They sign young players like Abalde and use their backup unit as their way to develop their future. Most clubs don't have the financial resources to do that.

[Tevfik1907]

I'm aware of Dixon's Turkish league MVP and title season with Karsiyaka. I'm not taking anything away from his career -- he was a terrific player in his prime.

But do you know how old Dixon was when he won his title in Karsiyaka? 31.

Do you know how old Wilbekin was in his seasons with Darussafaka which you're using as your evidence that he's not, nor ever will be, an elite EL guard? 23-25.

What was Dixon doing at that age? He was bouncing around the French and Italian leagues.

I got your point about Guduric and Micic, but I think it's silly to dismiss Efes' success purely as "luck" when there clearly is a big difference in the two clubs' operating philosophies over the past few years.

Fener is catching players during the ends of their primes. The way you're speaking, you'd think the current ideal EL backcourt is Teodosic, Llull, Spanoulis, because if you're only willing to sign guys with team EL accomplishments, you're going to end up old.

Wilbekin was just entering his prime when he had that EC MVP and title season at 25. And he just had an objectively elite EL season, leading the EL in 3s, 5th in scoring, as the clear leader of a team that was right there in terms of Final Four contention at 27. To dismiss him as an elite player now is simply hard-headedness, and he's in the early stages of his prime.

Teams have to sacrifice "accomplished" players for youth/upside. Fener hasn't done that -- and that's why they're in the position they are. Efes may have gotten a bit lucky, but there's nothing unlucky about Fener's current spot. They're here because their leaders have lacked vision and have a terrible scouting department.

Again, you've no idea about European basketball.

''Fener is catching players during the ends of their primes''? What?

Bojan Bogdanovic wasn't as good as he was before coming to us, and now look at him at NBA.
Nemanja Bjelica wasn't the Euroleague mvp before coming to us, he improved a lot and went to NBA.
Bogdan Bogdanovic was a completely different player when he left. He improved a lot.
Udoh improved a lot when he left, then he choose to be the third option in Utah, that's why he didn't get any better.
Vesely wasn't the Euroleague mvp when he first came to us, he improved in 2019 season as well.
Nunnally improved defensively, and he got another chance to show himself in NBA.
Melli improved a lot, and he went to NBA.
Guduric didn't improve a lot as we've expected, but he also improved enough to go to NBA.
Wanamaker improved himself, and he got another chance in NBA, and he is still there.
Kalinic is definitely improved, he is a better player than when he first came to us.

Tyler Ennis got seriously injured, both the player and we were unlucky.
Lauvergne got injured, and then he never returned as same, we were unlucky.

The only exceptions are Datome, Dixon, and probably Sloukas because they were already good. They both kept their prime. It's debatable if Sloukas improved or not as well.

Efes never planned or expected Micic to improve this much. Their plan was using Larkin, because Larkin was already an elite player in Euroleague, who also played in Boston Celtics before coming to Efes, and Micic as his replacement. Because Micic was also a solid player who played Final Four with Zalgris. Then Micic started to play far better than what they expected, they had to bench Larkin because of Micic's unexpected performance. Then Larkin accepted Micic's leading role, and he accepted to play alongside with Micic in the second half of 2018/2019 Euroleague season, that lead them to success. It's completely unexpected. They never thought Micic could be this good, and they expected Larkin to lead the team. Then they definitely didn't expect Micic and Larkin play at the same time on the court with different roles. This was unexpected and very lucky.

Another unexpected thing; which I mentioned here, was keeping Micic and Larkin in the next season. Because Larkin doesn't want to be in the third option in any NBA team like Udoh and Wanamaker wanted it, and somehow no NBA team buy Micic yet, but they buy Guduric. That's the second surprising part.

When we buy players like Bjelica, Melli, or Bogdan, they weren't the best Euroleague players, they improved thanks to us. But when they reach that level, they didn't stay. But Micic and Larkin stayed. That's the difference. Even Guduric didn't stay.

You can also understand how much a player can grow. Wilbekin on this Euroleague season, is still not as good as Micic. Or he isn't as good as Bogdan's last season with us. Wilbekin can't carry a top Euroleague team like they did.

Dixon vs. Wilbekin comparison is entirely different thing, we needed a solid guard who can also stay at bench, who also knows our system, you can't choose all of your players from young players, you need players like Dixon and Datome as well, so that choice was right. If you need a guard who knows your system, and it's almost guaranteed how he can perform, then you won't choose Wilbekin 2 or 3 years early. And Wilbekin is not going to be an elite Euroleague player as well, you can wish though. But it's obvious.

The same rumors that cite Sloukas as an option for Real cite that Larkin and Wilbekin were their initial targets before the coronavirus stop made spending the buyout on those players a financial fantasy.

But Real operates differently than most EL clubs -- they don't need to sign big FAs from other EL/EC/BCL clubs. They sign young players like Abalde and use their backup unit as their way to develop their future. Most clubs don't have the financial resources to do that.

Again; show your source like I just did. You just claimed Real is not after Sloukas, and I showed a source that they are. It's hard to believe your claims at this point.

[GatorsGators]

Again, you've no idea about European basketball.

Fener is catching players during the ends of their primes? What?

Bojan Bogdanovic wasn't as good as he was before coming to us, and now look at him at NBA.
Nemanja Bjelica wasn't the Euroleague mvp before coming to us, he improved a lot and went to NBA.
Bogdan Bogdanovic was a completely different player when he left. He improved a lot.
Udoh improved a lot when he left, then he choose to be the third option in Utah, that's why he didn't get any better.
Vesely wasn't the Euroleague mvp when he first came to us, he improved in 2019 season as well.
Nunnally improved defensively, and he got another chance to show himself in NBA.
Melli improved a lot, and he went to NBA.
Guduric didn't improve as we've expected, but he also improved enough to go to NBA.
Wanamaker improved himself, and he got another chance in NBA, and he is still there.
Kalinic is definitely improved, he is a better player than when he first came to us.

Tyler Ennis got seriously injured, both the player and we were unlucky.
Lauvergne got injured, and then he never returned as same, we were unlucky.

The only exceptions are Datome, Dixon, and probably Sloukas because they were already good. They both kept their prime. It's debatable if Sloukas improved or not as well.

Efes never planned or expected Micic to improve this much. Their plan was using Larkin, because Larkin was already an elite player in Euroleague, who also played in Boston Celtics before coming to Efes, and Micic as his replacement. Because Micic was also a solid player who played Final Four with Zalgris. Then Micic started to play far better than what they expected, they had to bench Larkin because of Micic's unexpected performance. Then Larkin accepted Micic's leading role, and he accepted to play alongside with Micic in the second half o 2018/2019 Euroleague season, that lead them to success. It's completely unexpected. They never thought Micic could be this good, and they expected Larkin to lead the team. Then they definitely didn't expect Micic and Larkin play at the same time on the court with different role. This was unexpected for them.

Another unexpected thing, which I mentioned here, was keeping Micic and Larkin in the next season, because Larkin doesn't want to be in third position in NBA and somehow no NBA team buy Micic yet, but they buy Guduric. That's the second surprising part.

When we buy players like Bjelica, Melli, or Bogdan, they weren't the best Euroleague players, they improved thanks to us. But when they reach that level, they didn't stay. But Micic and Larkin stayed. That's the difference. Even Guduric didn't stay.

You can also understand how much a player can grow. Wilbekin on this Euroleague season, is still not as good as Micic. Or he isn't as good as Bogdan's last season with us. Wilbekin can't carry a top Euroleague team like they did.

Dixon vs. Wilbekin comparison is entirely different thing, we needed a solid PG who can also stay at bench, you can't choose all of your players from young players, you need players like Dixon and Datome as well, so that choice was right. If you need a guard who knows your system, and it's almost guaranteed how he can perform, then you won't choose Wilbekin 2 or 3 years early. And Wilbekin is not going to be an elite Euroleague player as well, you can wish though. But it's obvious.



Again; show your source like I just did.

This guy is the source for the Sloukas rumors, too:

https://twitter.com/blasradio/status/1257045194211500034?s=20

My bet is that Real knows Campazzo is staying and looking into "impossible" options as a result (I could be wrong).

[GatorsGators]

And I'm going to ignore the petty insults you're throwing out that are borderline bigoted (it's not possible that an American could follow European basketball and have a different opinion than mine!), but Fener has lacked young studs like Bogdan lately, and that's precisely my point -- Fener needs players like Bogdan, and I can't tell you specifically why they haven't been able to bring them in lately, whether it's a failure of scouting or philosophy. But I know that Fener's current roster is old, slow, and completely unable to defend any team with a quick, penetrating guard, and unless they can quickly infuse some youth and upside into their roster, they'll be a borderline playoff team for the near future.