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Thread: Euroleague/Club Competition 2019-20: Signings & Rumours - vol. I

  1. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    100k Liras right?
    C'mon, let's get real. You need me and the Greeks are calling already

  2. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    The problem with Fenerbahce is if you are not expensive enough you are also not good enough. This is their main principles. You may be a very good gm with very good moves and lets say you would need 2 years of developing something. They would throw you out after 2 month.
    In two months, I would transform that club

  3. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Your first recruits...




    I'm sure you're tempted to apply for the head coaching role at PAO too, but who needs that stress? Imagine sitting courtside at the Ulker sports hall beside Salt Bae and Anil Cakmak, as the master of ceremonies at a festival of basketball and celebrity that would make even the Lakers envious.
    Oh no. But I am tempted to get Yagmur and give him the Filip Covic role in the team

    Regarding PAO, I fucking hate Athens that would kill me. I love Greece in so many other places, but Athens is just rough. Also, the owner is a cocaine guy, I am more of a MJ guy. That's a clash already there. Besides, if there is one team I would be a GM in Greece, it is Aris.

  4. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    Accepted
    With Obradovic or new coach?
    Well,

    If Obradovic wanted to stay, he would have to explain to me why he was such a fucking pussy in 2005 and threw the NT under the bus for his shit coaching job. If he is willing to go there and be humble, we can talk about working together. I would take control of all the transfers according to his requests but take away the youth setup from his control.

    Otherwise, I would go hunting for guys like Kokoskov, Ibon Navarro, etc.

  5. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Well,

    If Obradovic wanted to stay, he would have to explain to me why he was such a fucking pussy in 2005 and threw the NT under the bus for his shit coaching job. If he is willing to go there and be humble, we can talk about working together. I would take control of all the transfers according to his requests but take away the youth setup from his control.

    Otherwise, I would go hunting for guys like Kokoskov, Ibon Navarro, etc.
    What did happen there? Didn't he blame the players for feuding with each other?

  6. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    What did happen there? Didn't he blame the players for feuding with each other?
    The atmosphere was just awful in the lockerroom. Out of the guys who were from the Old School teams was Bodiroga who was already past prime and full of injuries, so he couldn't really get the guys to follow him. What ensued was a shit-show of epic proportions as two groups of players wanted to take over the leadership of the NT and supremacy in the lockerroom. All the players were young and entering prime, supremely talented. On one side group led by Rakocevic and the other group by Jaric. You also had prime Gurovic, prime Radmanovic, youngsters like Krstic and Milicic. Rakocevic would basically not pass the ball to Jaric, and some stupid, childish things like that.

    There was constant fighting in the locker room. Guys were going out all night in Novi Sad and Belgrade, coming back to hotels in early morning hours. Basically, a rudderless ship. What is the key problem is that Obradovic at that point is the best coach in Europe with a supreme reputation in Serbia and everywhere else. Prime authority. He knows about all of these things, but he does nothing to get that lockerroom in order. He doesn't suspend anybody, he doesn't kick out anybody from the team. It's like he forgot that Pesic kicked Radmanovic out of the team in the middle of WC 2002 for eating a FUCKING BANANA. He was just chilling, hoping they will buckle up and get serious once we reach the knockout stage. There we basically get beat by a kid Tony Parker and buddies.

    He goes out in the media and goes on a 30+ minute rant about the players, their shit human qualities, bla bla. Not once taking the responsibility for the embarrassment and defeat at home in the Eurobasket, with a young team that was supremely talented and could've been winning medals for years to come. This basically collapses the NT for the next 3-4 years, where we almost disappear from contention besides having all those guys in the prime, until Ivkovic starts a reboot in 2009 with a group of kids.

    He has done tremendous damage to the NT in 2000 already, with that shit performance, and in Athens in 2004 before that Eurobasket 2005. He was basically awful as a coach, leader and a human being. And he threw his players under the bus...

  7. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    The atmosphere was just awful in the lockerroom. Out of the guys who were from the Old School teams was Bodiroga who was already past prime and full of injuries, so he couldn't really get the guys to follow him. What ensued was a shit-show of epic proportions as two groups of players wanted to take over the leadership of the NT and supremacy in the lockerroom. All the players were young and entering prime, supremely talented. On one side group led by Rakocevic and the other group by Jaric. You also had prime Gurovic, prime Radmanovic, youngsters like Krstic and Milicic. Rakocevic would basically not pass the ball to Jaric, and some stupid, childish things like that.

    There was constant fighting in the locker room. Guys were going out all night in Novi Sad and Belgrade, coming back to hotels in early morning hours. Basically, a rudderless ship. What is the key problem is that Obradovic at that point is the best coach in Europe with a supreme reputation in Serbia and everywhere else. Prime authority. He knows about all of these things, but he does nothing to get that lockerroom in order. He doesn't suspend anybody, he doesn't kick out anybody from the team. It's like he forgot that Pesic kicked Radmanovic out of the team in the middle of WC 2002 for eating a FUCKING BANANA. He was just chilling, hoping they will buckle up and get serious once we reach the knockout stage. There we basically get beat by a kid Tony Parker and buddies.

    He goes out in the media and goes on a 30+ minute rant about the players, their shit human qualities, bla bla. Not once taking the responsibility for the embarrassment and defeat at home in the Eurobasket, with a young team that was supremely talented and could've been winning medals for years to come. This basically collapses the NT for the next 3-4 years, where we almost disappear from contention besides having all those guys in the prime, until Ivkovic starts a reboot in 2009 with a group of kids.

    He has done tremendous damage to the NT in 2000 already, with that shit performance, and in Athens in 2004 before that Eurobasket 2005. He was basically awful as a coach, leader and a human being. And he threw his players under the bus...
    Ha, the banana story is incredible.

    Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Why do you think Obradovic let things slide that much? Was it basically just a situation where he tried to let them manage the locker room themselves and it backfired terribly?

  8. #1048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Ha, the banana story is incredible.

    Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Why do you think Obradovic let things slide that much? Was it basically just a situation where he tried to let them manage the locker room themselves and it backfired terribly?
    I think it was a clash of personalities and his Old School approach ran into guys like Jaric, Rakocevic, Milicic, Radmanovic who are all well known for being a bit rebellious, also very laid back and do not respond terribly well to hard-ass coaching and somebody riding them constantly. He was getting on their nerves and they were not responding to his coaching. Guys like Djordjevic, Divac, Obradovic etc. were not there anymore to hold the shit down in the lockerroom. Also, all of those young stars were hungry to show they are the ones and put the team goals on the back foot.

    He lost them and made no effort to get the lockerroom back. By kicking out a player or two before the actual Eurobasket, when this craziness started and putting more team players, even of lesser talent could've righted the ship. But he did nothing, then like a pussy blamed it all on them.

  9. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Well,

    If Obradovic wanted to stay, he would have to explain to me why he was such a fucking pussy in 2005 and threw the NT under the bus for his shit coaching job. If he is willing to go there and be humble, we can talk about working together. I would take control of all the transfers according to his requests but take away the youth setup from his control.

    Otherwise, I would go hunting for guys like Kokoskov, Ibon Navarro, etc.
    He would gladly give you the control of the youth and if this happens call me! Youll never find a more passionate assistant than me.

    Since you are/were working with Kids you have more knowledge than me. I also dont want money. My family has more than enough.

  10. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    He would gladly give you the control of the youth and if this happens call me! Youll never find a more passionate assistant than me.

    Since you are/were working with Kids you have more knowledge than me. I also dont want money. My family has more than enough.
    Toruko, what do you think of Kenan Sipahi and how he has developed since leaving Fener?

  11. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Toruko, what do you think of Kenan Sipahi and how he has developed since leaving Fener?
    I think he is no material for high level Basketball. I always thought so and never could understand the hype around him. He was just an early bloomer with good decision making for his age but had never a remarkable offensive skill. He has great size but handles the ball still very bad. Nevertheless a very solid defender who can distribute the ball well, has good p&r skills, can post up against smaller and weaker opponents. Below average court vision, a piss poor shooter.

    He had a big injury when he was playing with Fenerbahce. Maybe the injury took him behind but was never a talented prospect.

    Guys like Ulubay and Birsen were much more talented but Ulubay had a very poor dedication to that game. Very versatile skill set. And Birsen also didnt develop well due to injuries and wrong decisions/mental issues.

  12. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    I think he is no material for high level Basketball. I always thought so and never could understand the hype around him. He was just an early bloomer with good decision making for his age but had never a remarkable offensive skill. He has great size but handles the ball still very bad. Nevertheless a very solid defender who can distribute the ball well, has good p&r skills, can post up against smaller and weaker opponents. Below average court vision, a piss poor shooter.

    He had a big injury when he was playing with Fenerbahce. Maybe the injury took him behind but was never a talented prospect.

    Guys like Ulubay and Birsen were much more talented but Ulubay had a very poor dedication to that game. Very versatile skill set. And Birsen also didnt develop well due to injuries and wrong decisions/mental issues.
    I just looked Ulubay up. Didn't realise he was with FMP now, so he is a team-mate of Stefan Pot.

  13. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    I just looked Ulubay up. Didn't realise he was with FMP now, so he is a team-mate of Stefan Pot.
    CoachZ was regularly reporting about him this season in the "turkish prospects"-Thread.

    https://www.interbasket.net/forums/s...=1#post1335270

    He seems to like him. I havent given him up as well yet but we screwed the 95-97 generations but i am very optimistic about 2002-2004

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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    Delaney to Milano

    Next move Gherardini to Milano or nursing center.. Just dreaming
    Barca not hanging onto Delaney is strange. Financial problems or do they think they have someone better lined up at PG?

  15. #1055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    CoachZ was regularly reporting about him this season in the "turkish prospects"-Thread.

    https://www.interbasket.net/forums/s...=1#post1335270

    He seems to like him. I havent given him up as well yet but we screwed the 95-97 generations but i am very optimistic about 2002-2004
    Thanks for the link, I will have a look through that thread. Was an interesting move for him to leave Turkey. I know Sipahi went to Spain. Possibly good for them to leave their comfort zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by GatorsGators View Post
    Barca not hanging onto Delaney is strange. Financial problems or do they think they have someone better lined up at PG?
    It was posted a couple of weeks ago that Barca would reduce the size of their roster slightly for next season, but on here people were assuming Delaney would stay even though he was on a 1+1 contract. Pangos missed the whole season and Heurtel missed the first few months, came back briefly then got injured again, but he has a big contract. I know they were using Hanga as a point guard at times.
    The Delaney interview is interesting because on the one hand he is saying he wasn't really happy with his role but also that he wanted to stay.

  16. #1056
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    Ulubay has to deliver. Personally I think that next season is his do-or-die season considering his career. There were steps towards the right direction but in fact he stayed on the level of a player with a nice shot with not enough development. I am more and more sceptical about his career. I understand now Toruko's mindset doubts. Motorically and technically there are ballhandling issues but putting that aside there is a lot of material to work on (in positive manner). I think Ulubay has a lot of potential.

    I like Sipahi a lot. He reminds me of old school yugoslav point guards in his attitude. I still wouldn't give up on him.

  17. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    Ulubay has to deliver. Personally I think that next season is his do-or-die season considering his career. There were steps towards the right direction but in fact he stayed on the level of a player with a nice shot with not enough development. I am more and more sceptical about his career. I understand now Toruko's mindset doubts. Motorically and technically there are ballhandling issues but putting that aside there is a lot of material to work on (in positive manner). I think Ulubay has a lot of potential.

    I like Sipahi a lot. He reminds me of old school yugoslav point guards in his attitude. I still wouldn't give up on him.
    Sipahi was coming along nicely, not as a star but he could be a serviceable backup PG in Euroleague. Breaking his shooting arm really fucked him up and he seems to have a mental block still in terms of asserting himself
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

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    Yeah, I'm always very sceptical about youth talents until they prove in senior basketball. Serbia is a prime example of wasted talents for export. There were so many examples of players that literally got lost (especially on high positions, in lesser extent with guards in our example) after their accelerant advantages got lost. There are too many factors, psychological ones, physical ones, injuries like in Kenan's case. Without two good seasons on high level they are nothing but talents or wasted talents. I like your approach because not every player can or should be a star. Teams need valuable team players, too. They are maybe as valuable as a key asset for success as stars are. Unfortunately people don't value a hard playing team player any more like they used to earlier on. There wouldn't be Yugoslavia 1998 without Sasa Obradovic and Spain 2019 without Victor Claver. We as basketball in Europe had always a different kind of perception of the game and I consider this highly valuable compared to this US stardom hype.

  19. #1059
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    There is a period of every players career between 18-22 where they must play. It is totally normal that a young player no matter how talented he is has a problem in the senior team and in competitive teams he must bring more than he takes on the court but if you are 18 and get 200k Dollar in a year and are not very matured it can ruin your max point very fast.

    The turkish 95-97 Generation was in addition to that really unlucky in terms of timing. It was a time where the turkish bb clubs had more money than it was good for them and if Turks have money they buy and dont go the more difficult way to raise simultaniously. Incidently turkish kids are also very spoiled and are not very matured when they become 18 because they face hardly a problem they would need to solve. Especially the Mothers spoil their kids to rotten. (Like in my case )

    Shortly said most of the guys had versatile problems and not ready to compete against high level foreigners. The conclusion was mental weakness, shocks, resignation and mostly injuries but they earned really well.

    All this guys are still talented enough to be solid rotation players in the nt (Except Sipahi) but i dont expect much tbh.

    The situation changed dramatically this season. Many many turkish teams had already had problems before the corona crisis but the situation got even worse. Every GM now talks about raising using talents from the youth. BJK for example just has a 1 million dollar budget for the next season. My team Bandirma has been dealing with such budgets since last season.

    The teams with strong youth programs will come out as winners. Especially Bandirma will have a great season, Tofas Bursa and Karsiyaka of course.

    I expect break out seasons of this guys. I have big hopes in Yigitcan Saybir (99) of Efes, Ercan Osmani (98), Sehmus Hazer (99), and the by far most important talent Alperen Sengün (02) of Bandirma, Berkan Durmaz (97) of Tofas. These guys are already getting heavy minutes in BSL.

    There are 3 guys who have big talent and work ethic that needs to reach the star level. One of them is the already mentioned Alperen Sengün who contributed with 17 in the basketball CL. Adem Bona (03) of Pinar Karsiyaka is another one. He is nigerian rooted and is a mix of Clint Capella and Giannis. Difficult to say what his ceiling is but a career in the NBA seems to be safe. Could take several minutes next season in the turkish league. Physically ready but began with basketball latish.

    The last guy is Tibet Gorener in the States. He is the son of the Görener family who owns the Bandirma club but he never played for Bandirma. Played the last 2 years for Montverde and for Orange Lutheran and is working with Charlie Torres who also trained with many todays nba stars like doncic, Klay Thomson, Feners Derrick Williams etc.

    Depending on their developments the turkish basketball could make a huge jump. If more than one fail to reach his ceiling i will give up on observing youth developments.

    Although not very talented but has a skill set what is severely needed in the nt. Mert Akays development (00) is crucial. Far more important than Sipahi etc.


    P.S. BTW: there are many articles about bad news referring to Sloukas, Datome and ZOC. It is said that Sloukas wont accept any salary reduction.

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    OK Ali Koc spoke about ZOC:"Obradovic, Fenerbahçe'nin yaşayan efsanelerinden biridir. Obradovic'in istek ve beklentileri doğrultusunda yeni sezonda hamleler yaptık. Hocamızın söylemine göre "en iyi kadroyu kurduk". İnanamayacağımız sonuçlar aldık, bizler bile gözlerimize inanamadık.
    Obradovic'e de ifade ettim, bizde sonsuza kadar kredisi vardır. Obradovic, Fenerbahçe'de kalmak istediği sürece burası onun evidir. Bu konudaki düşüncelerimizi Obradovic'e ilettik, aynı zamanda sözleşme teklifimizi de birkaç kez sunduk.."

    English more or less " Obradovic is a legend of Fenerbahce. We built a team according to his wishes and directives and got results that we couldnt believe. I told Obradovic many times. He has eternal credit in Fenerbahce and he can stay as long as he wants. Here is his home. We made him many offers referring to his contract extention"

    Shortly interpreted: "We told him our circumstances but he is the one who didnt want to stay"

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