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Thread: Euroleague/Club Competition 2019-20: Signings & Rumours - vol. I

  1. #961
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    This is the best that can happen in my opinion. SF in Europe literally is there to make offensive rebounds and spread. Everything more is a huge plus for every team. The one thing I see at Biberovic is a beautiful stroke, everything else is nothing special compared to other children in his age. But as Toruko mentioned, frame is there, he can surely grow into a good player if given minutes. But speaking about mix of Bojan and Bogdan, I don't know if it is good for children to set this standards. He has a lot of bread to it like all other 18 year old kids.

    Coach, did you see Krunoslav Simon in Srdjan Radojevic's podcast "give and go"? They spoke about exactly that issue. He is maybe the only SF in Europe that is creating and not playing as a wing hunting offensive rebounds and waiting for an outlet.

    Clyburn and Simon and that's literally it. Interesting fact: Kruno claims that no SF in Europe sets picks AND runs through double screens. Ataman allows this, no other coach does. Because they simply have different expectations of SF position. Very trendy Ergin style

    I remember when I learned basketball as a child a horn double screen didn't even exist, at least I cannot remember something similar, if you would have told back then the position 3 to set it, coach would have been declared case for psychatry.

    To finalize my opinion - the most modern SF that ultimately disappointed me the most was Kuzminskas. He was like created to be the next level future thing as SF. We spoke here a few times about it, but his downfall since Unicaja is incredible.
    Yeah, saw that podcast. I love Simon, he is such a gamer. Well, the issue with SFs is that if they are labeled as such in the youth setup, they tend to see little of the ball and their role reduced right away, to guys who stalk the corners for catch'n'shoot threes, running transition, rebounding etc. This creates the fundamental deficit in the understanding and reading the game that is necessary to be a successful among young players at SF position. This is why major prospects that will end up as SF in seniors are played out of position and given the ball, to develop that understanding and reading the game to do more. Maccabi is doing it with Avdija, Real did it with Doncic, Pesic did it with Bjelica. If you want a wing player to be able to run the offense and dictate the game, rather then being some Hanga-type, you need to put him in situations early where he will have to make decisions, see the floor and play for others.

    Regarding Ataman, he is far from a backward stupid guy. He takes certain players and tries to maximize their output at things they do best. In essence, that philosophy is much closer to what NBA teams and coaches do, compared to Europe and EL. Most of European coaches tend to stick to a strict system and then try to plug in players that fit the system. Guys that manage to adapt the play to the roster easily stand out. This is the case with Ataman. The risk in that is that in European basketball systems deliver long-term results and maintain consistency of play. Ataman's approach is that it is superior to a system when you have mercurial talent. He has 2 out of top 5 backcourt players in Europe right now, one of them the undoubted No.1 in Larkin. He has Simon, Dunston who are vets that do certain things on an elite level. The question is, how he will fare if he losses one of the Larkin/Micic duo and whether he can still beat the systems without mercurial talent above the rest of the field.

    Regarding screens in basketball. It was similar when I was growing up and playing basketball. The development of Zone defenses and switching did a huge number on regular screens. In man-2-man schemes, screens were much more effective and guys with quick release and footwork would take advantage of them easily. With flex and matchup zones, the efficiency of screens has decreased, that it required elaborate movement and several screens to get people open. This has transferred to modern game even more, since bigs got smaller and quicker, and the screen lost even more effectiveness. Who believes anything different, all he needs to do is go watch the 90s Utah Jazz and see how WIDE OPEN was that PnR after the screens, and compare it to what we are seeing now in basketball.

    Kuzminskas is/was a guy caught between the positions. SF/PF hybrid that had the guard-like skills with the ball and solid athleticism. Ultimately, the change in basketball worked against him. The lineups got smaller and more quicker and explosive guys ended up playing the SF position. This created a lot of problems for him offensively and defensively. He couldn't guard the quick guys on defense, and on offense, he struggled to put the ball on the floor on those guys and didn't get to post them up and take advantage of the size difference. That forced him to be utilized more as a PF, where he lacked the post game and in small-ball stuff he was relegated to stretch duty and some transition. That further limited his effectiveness. Ultimately, his guard-like skills were all oriented towards scoring. The lack of being able to read the game and create for others at an elite level killed his potential as a ball-hogging SF/PF wing. I liked him as well, but even in Malaga I saw the trend when guys like Branko Lazic were getting the best of him...

  2. #962
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    Nothing to add. Joy to read your messages here. Hope to see you more often when the game starts again.

  3. #963
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    Nothing to add. Joy to read your messages here. Hope to see you more often when the game starts again.
    Same here mate. I'll be around. I am going through a massive withdrawal from basketball. I stopped watching it when Kobe died, and it all kind of gelled into this COVID-19 shit, so I have been out quite a while

  4. #964
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    To finalize my opinion - the most modern SF that ultimately disappointed me the most was Kuzminskas. He was like created to be the next level future thing as SF. We spoke here a few times about it, but his downfall since Unicaja is incredible.
    I would also add Gentile to that 'extremely talented but disappointing SF' group
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  5. #965
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    Hey guys, any opinion abou Wade Balwin III and was he used in a right way in OLY? He could be one of many players on Zalgiris radar. Any info about him?

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by arelg View Post
    Some Maccabi news until now :

    stay 100% - Wilbekin, Hunter, Zoosman, John D, Cohen and Casspi.

    leave 100% - Jackson, Reynolds, Stoudmaire and Avdija.

    Question Mark? - Caloiaro, Acy and Wolters (all the 3 will probably leave), Black (probably stay), Cohen III (will stay if he will get an Israeli nationality)

    Contract with NBA option - Dorsey (can sign ONLY with NBA team until 31.7), Bryant (has a contract with NBA option, probably also until 31.7).


    Leading candidtaes until now :
    1. Ante Zizic (if Black will stay, he is no longer relevant)
    2. Kostas Papanikolao
    3. T.J Leaf (Israeli Nationtality)
    4. Kevin Pangos
    5. Nigel Williams Goss
    6. Nikola Kalinic
    7. Kostas Sloukas
    8. Ryan Broekhoff
    9. Tomer Ginat (Israeli Player)
    list of target is good.broekhoff would me marvellous, but we must must confirm calo and black as we must cut acy.

  7. #967
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Apparently a newspaper in Greece is linking Nick Calathes with Olympiacos.

  8. #968
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Apparently a newspaper in Greece is linking Nick Calathes with Olympiacos.
    Sloukas zu Pao, Calathes zu Fener
    Source: My ass
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  9. #969
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    Sloukas zu Pao, Calathes zu Fener
    Source: My ass
    Exactly, it makes no sense. Calathes worried about a wage reduction at PAO so he signs for... their biggest rivals who have a terrible recent history of paying their players.

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Exactly, it makes no sense. Calathes worried about a wage reduction at PAO so he signs for... their biggest rivals who have a terrible recent history of paying their players.
    We've done a better job of paying players than Fener recently.
    But with Calathes you're just burning money away and other teams are more qualified to do that, still.

  11. #971
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    We've done a better job of paying players than Fener recently.
    But with Calathes you're just burning money away and other teams are more qualified to do that, still.
    Ha, the Fener fans might argue that one!

    I wonder if COVID-19 is giving PAO a good excuse to free themselves from the rest of Calathes' contract? They would be saving 2.1 million Euros according to Eurohoops. I think he's a terrific player but it already looked hard to justify them spending that amount on one guy and I guess even more so in the current crisis.

    Eurohoops have gone mad linking him with teams- Zenit, CSKA, Real, Efes and Oly.
    Bob's reaction if he signed for Real...

  12. #972
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    their biggest rivals who have a terrible recent history of paying their players.
    That news was based on one Turkish guy with no credibility whatsoever... Fener obviously has financial problems but I highly doubt "months of late payments" etc

    Edit: Lmao I thought you were talking about Fener and was confused don't write posts just before sleep, people
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  13. #973
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    That news was based on one Turkish guy with no credibility whatsoever... Fener obviously has financial problems but I highly doubt "months of late payments" etc

    Edit: Lmao I thought you were talking about Fener and was confused don't write posts just before sleep, people
    Ha, no problem.

    I do wonder also if PAO letting Calathes go means they are serious about trying to sign Sloukas. But things are pointing to them reducing their budget generally.

  14. #974
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Ha, the Fener fans might argue that one!

    I wonder if COVID-19 is giving PAO a good excuse to free themselves from the rest of Calathes' contract? They would be saving 2.1 million Euros according to Eurohoops. I think he's a terrific player but it already looked hard to justify them spending that amount on one guy and I guess even more so in the current crisis.

    Eurohoops have gone mad linking him with teams- Zenit, CSKA, Real, Efes and Oly.
    Bob's reaction if he signed for Real...
    I would have been thrilled with him running second unit.
    previously known as Beno

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    I would also add Gentile to that 'extremely talented but disappointing SF' group
    True, incredibly wasted talent.

  16. #976
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Such discussions are an oasis in the middle of corona-crisis. They create the illusion that everything is normal and our main concern is the transfers for the next season.

  17. #977
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/tbl/105...or-relegation/

    How unfair to Efes. I just wonder how their biggest supporter Janketa feels?

    It won’t happen, but I wonder how Euroleague would look, with some teams getting in shape in national competitions and others just training in the gym.
    previously known as Beno

  18. #978
    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/tbl/105...or-relegation/

    How unfair to Efes. I just wonder how their biggest supporter Janketa feels?

    It won’t happen, but I wonder how Euroleague would look, with some teams getting in shape in national competitions and others just training in the gym.
    I think the top winner of that decision is Büyükçekmece and İTÜ lol
    Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
    Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
    Bu dünyayı yakarız senin için
    Şampiyonluk gelince

  19. #979
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    Eurohoops claims Calathes and PAO are on the verge of parting ways. I mean i kinda understand it. He is old, earns too much and corona hit everyone financially but who is gonna replace him in case?

  20. #980
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/tbl/105...or-relegation/

    How unfair to Efes. I just wonder how their biggest supporter Janketa feels?

    It won’t happen, but I wonder how Euroleague would look, with some teams getting in shape in national competitions and others just training in the gym.
    It was right decision. Who cares about BSL title
    But El is other story and as you see your prediction was wrong. But maybe not, we must wait just two weeks and will know

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