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Thread: 2020 Olympic Qualifying Tournaments

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Cedi will play just regular season. Regular season isnt a problem. It should end mid June which should be very fine. And of course Larkin will play no matter what unless he is injured otherwise taking the turkish citizenship is pure stupidity and he wont play just with Arna Tuncer or Birsen. He will play with a whole new generation of talented player like Sengün, Bona and Hazer.

    In fact its even better like this. The loss of Korkmaz is heavy but not that severe like Satoransky for Czech, Giannis for Greece, let alone all the losses of Canada. It wont be enough but it isnt important either. Its a very unique chance for the young guys.
    You didn't get it obviously. The regular season will run over the whole summer until autumn. They pause just for Olympics. Not one NBA player will play qualifiers.

    I really doubt your scenario. Would be suicidal for Turkey. But anyways, not my business.

  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    You didn't get it obviously. The regular season will run over the whole summer until autumn. They pause just for Olympics. Not one NBA player will play qualifiers.

    I really doubt your scenario. Would be suicidal for Turkey. But anyways, not my business.
    If the regular season starts in December instead of October. How can it run till Autumn. If it starts in December it will end mid June instead of mid April.

    I really doubt your scenario. Would be suicidal for Turkey. But anyways, not my business.
    You cant do more than losing but i cant say I am sure because I dont trust Sarica a bit but in case you are right and no NBA player can participate even they dont play post season it doesnt matter anyway but you can be sure that I am observing every process about the turkish bb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    If the regular season starts in December instead of October. How can it run till Autumn. If it starts in December it will end mid June instead of mid April.



    You cant do more than losing but i cant say I am sure because I dont trust Sarica a bit but in case you are right and no NBA player can participate even they dont play post season it doesnt matter anyway but you can be sure that I am observing every process about the turkish bb.
    Because it won't start in December but end of January 2021 as I mentioned. Like written initially...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    Because it won't start in December but end of January 2021 as I mentioned. Like written initially...
    Hmm yes i see. Well internet says there are many consideration but if the season starts in January 2021 many nba player dependent teams are screwed.

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    The source is Wojnarowski. I think that even Adam Silver isn't closer to deciding than him

    Problems are the same for everyone, I agree of course. But for example Slovenia and Croatia will be hurt with this solution in a way that isn't even worth mentioning. Besides all it's the best solution in my opinion. Croatia is a decent team with it's NBA roster, but without them they will have a hard time in even being equal besides great homecourt in Split.

    The second big problem that will occur are a) health insurance for top players, b) heavy pressure from their teams to skip if they are in play off positions.

    Interesting stuff to come up for next season. At the end I think the best European teams will be able to make a roster of EL players that should or could survive the qualifiers. But it will be a tough ride. The tournament that interests me most is naturally the one in Belgrade and Italy definitely has grown chances now, especially if Galo continues in Europe next year. And this isn't the only example. Germany is a team that was surely not the favourite in Split for example but they have a very balanced, disciplined and quite deep roster with experienced EL players that can survive tournaments like this. Lithuania is the clear favourite in Kaunas with this solution and the only 100% sure pick if there won't be an epic breakdown.

    The tournament in Canada will be extremely interesting. No MVP, no Satoransky, no Ilyasova, Korkmaz, Osman, no SGA, Murray, Joseph, Brooks, Olynyk and many more for Canada. Canada seems beatable out of nothing besides homecourt. This tournament is definetely the most interesting especially with this development. Totally unpredictable. I must admit that I also like Lithuanian colleague before mentioned, agree that you have to be able to have a balanced roster even without NBA players and if you don't have, you don't have to complain. It's the same for all.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    The source is Wojnarowski. I think that even Adam Silver isn't closer to deciding than him

    Problems are the same for everyone, I agree of course. But for example Slovenia and Croatia will be hurt with this solution in a way that isn't even worth mentioning. Besides all it's the best solution in my opinion. Croatia is a decent team with it's NBA roster, but without them they will have a hard time in even being equal besides great homecourt in Split.

    The second big problem that will occur are a) health insurance for top players, b) heavy pressure from their teams to skip if they are in play off positions.

    Interesting stuff to come up for next season. At the end I think the best European teams will be able to make a roster of EL players that should or could survive the qualifiers. But it will be a tough ride. The tournament that interests me most is naturally the one in Belgrade and Italy definitely has grown chances now, especially if Galo continues in Europe next year. And this isn't the only example. Germany is a team that was surely not the favourite in Split for example but they have a very balanced, disciplined and quite deep roster with experienced EL players that can survive tournaments like this. Lithuania is the clear favourite in Kaunas with this solution and the only 100% sure pick if there won't be an epic breakdown.

    The tournament in Canada will be extremely interesting. No MVP, no Satoransky, no Ilyasova, Korkmaz, Osman, no SGA, Murray, Joseph, Brooks, Olynyk and many more for Canada. Canada seems beatable out of nothing besides homecourt. This tournament is definetely the most interesting especially with this development. Totally unpredictable. I must admit that I also like Lithuanian colleague before mentioned, agree that you have to be able to have a balanced roster even without NBA players and if you don't have, you don't have to complain. It's the same for all.
    I will believe this end January thing when its a finished thing. Complain or not you cant change a thing anyway but different countries will be affected in different ways. Old Greece will be affected the least because they have been playing with the same roster for 100 years. Czech are affected more because its the point guard who is the star of the team. Nevertheless its a team with chemistry. We must see about Turkey with Larkin and without the 4 NBA player. Sure thing is that there is no time for preparations and although there will be new guys who will have had a great season Turkey will be the team which is most affected after Canada.

    On the other side there is no chance for Italy and Slovenia for example but as you said its about having guys with bigger roles in Eurolegue, Eurocup and BCL. It will be fun to watch anyway so no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    I like that. Best players would play in Oympics and well qualification at this point wouldn't promote any flukes. Most fundamentally sound and deepest teams would qualify for Olympic games. If you're lose 1 or 2 NBA players for qualification and you collapse, you ain't deserve to be in Olympics.

    How about if a country loses 22 NBA players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    I will believe this end January thing when its a finished thing. Complain or not you cant change a thing anyway but different countries will be affected in different ways. Old Greece will be affected the least because they have been playing with the same roster for 100 years. Czech are affected more because its the point guard who is the star of the team. Nevertheless its a team with chemistry. We must see about Turkey with Larkin and without the 4 NBA player. Sure thing is that there is no time for preparations and although there will be new guys who will have had a great season Turkey will be the team which is most affected after Canada.

    On the other side there is no chance for Italy and Slovenia for example but as you said its about having guys with bigger roles in Eurolegue, Eurocup and BCL. It will be fun to watch anyway so no problem.

    Canada is in a very interesting predicament.But we realistically could make it out of the qualifier with the right pieces, a proper training camp and some actual chemistry formed.

    Assuming no NBA players at all, I'd rate our top player pool as follows:


    Tyler Ennis
    Kevin Pangos
    Nik Stauskas
    Dylan Ennis
    Phil Scrubb
    Kassius Robertson
    Oliver Hanlan
    Kaza Keane
    Aaron Best
    Andy Rautins

    Aaron Doornekamp
    Dyshawn Pierre
    Andrew Nicholson
    Melvin Ejim
    Kyle Wiltjer
    Thomas Scrubb
    Connor Morgan
    MiKyle McIntosh
    Owen Klassen

    Bolded are guys on the 2019 World Cup team. A number of the others played in multiple the WC Qualifier windows.

    This seems the top 18 non NBA player pool. Maybe missing a few guys. We have one center in the mix and he is not very good (Owen Klassen).

    But there is a chance at chemistry here as the bulk of the World Cup team would be hypothetically available (8 of 12 players). If we keep those guys in place and swaped out Cory Joseph (NBA), Brady Heslip (retired), Khem Birch (NBA) and Andrew Nembhard (NCAA) for guys like Tyler Ennis, Nik Stauskas, Dyshawn Pierre, and Andrew Nicholson. That might not be that bad a team (still really weak at center) and capable of Qualifying.

    Our best hope of a Qualifying team probably comes from the guys above. At least many of these guys have familiarity with each other from the WC and WC Qualifiers.

    But if non-playoff NBA players become available? That really opens the door. Not that these guys would miss the playoffs next year, but as an example this year the following missed the playoffs - Tristan Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Mychal Mulder, Brandon Clarke, Dillon Brooks, Cory Joseph, Nickeil Alexander Walker, RJ Barrett, Trey Lyles. If we could pull a few of those guys in - that would change our prospects dynamically.

    The other problem? We wouldn't have Nick Nurse....

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    Yeah, I think Canada now may have huge problems. Some of these NBA players will eventually end up in Europe, as Stauskas, but it will take some time till you have solid core there. So Canada might suffer the most if qualification will take place without NBA players. Turkey would collapse as well pretty much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    Canada is in a very interesting predicament.But we realistically could make it out of the qualifier with the right pieces, a proper training camp and some actual chemistry formed.

    Assuming no NBA players at all, I'd rate our top player pool as follows:


    Tyler Ennis
    Kevin Pangos
    Nik Stauskas
    Dylan Ennis
    Phil Scrubb
    Kassius Robertson
    Oliver Hanlan
    Kaza Keane
    Aaron Best
    Andy Rautins

    Aaron Doornekamp
    Dyshawn Pierre
    Andrew Nicholson
    Melvin Ejim
    Kyle Wiltjer
    Thomas Scrubb
    Connor Morgan
    MiKyle McIntosh
    Owen Klassen

    Bolded are guys on the 2019 World Cup team. A number of the others played in multiple the WC Qualifier windows.

    This seems the top 18 non NBA player pool. Maybe missing a few guys. We have one center in the mix and he is not very good (Owen Klassen).

    But there is a chance at chemistry here as the bulk of the World Cup team would be hypothetically available (8 of 12 players). If we keep those guys in place and swaped out Cory Joseph (NBA), Brady Heslip (retired), Khem Birch (NBA) and Andrew Nembhard (NCAA) for guys like Tyler Ennis, Nik Stauskas, Dyshawn Pierre, and Andrew Nicholson. That might not be that bad a team (still really weak at center) and capable of Qualifying.

    Our best hope of a Qualifying team probably comes from the guys above. At least many of these guys have familiarity with each other from the WC and WC Qualifiers.

    But if non-playoff NBA players become available? That really opens the door. Not that these guys would miss the playoffs next year, but as an example this year the following missed the playoffs - Tristan Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Mychal Mulder, Brandon Clarke, Dillon Brooks, Cory Joseph, Nickeil Alexander Walker, RJ Barrett, Trey Lyles. If we could pull a few of those guys in - that would change our prospects dynamically.

    The other problem? We wouldn't have Nick Nurse....
    All these developments in the last years changed my mind about the NBA. National teams have almost no access to NBA players... especially not when they are star player. There are guys who are expected to be drafted and I dont want them to be drafted at all anymore.

  11. #471
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    Silver said Tuesday that the NBA had hoped as recently as a week ago that "the earliest we would start is Christmas of this year," but he then said that as more coronavirus-related information becomes available, he believes that the league will "be better off getting into January."

    Qualification tournament starts 2021 June 22.

    99,9% of nba players wont be able to take part in qualification unless some special things will happen with nba season under 82 games.Or some special player and his team arrangements that they will let him go earlier if their team would have no chance for playoofs.But i dont recall that ever happend before.

    Nba maybe will try to finish playoofs before main Olympics starts, but they just dont care about qualification because usa are in main tournament.But even that will not be easy to do. Olympics starts in late July,if you start season is mid January and go by normal scheduale nba finals should be played in second part of July or even August.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 09-22-2020 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Silver said Tuesday that the NBA had hoped as recently as a week ago that "the earliest we would start is Christmas of this year," but he then said that as more coronavirus-related information becomes available, he believes that the league will "be better off getting into January."

    Qualification tournament starts 2021 June 22.

    99,9% of nba players wont be able to take part in qualification unless some special things will happen with nba season under 82 games.Or some special player and his team arrangements that they will let him go earlier if their team would have no chance for playoofs.But i dont recall that ever happend before.

    Nba maybe will try to finish playoofs before main Olympics starts, but they just dont care about qualification because usa are in main tournament.But even that will not be easy to do. Olympics starts in late July,if you start season is mid January and go by normal scheduale nba finals should be played in second part of July or even August.
    yup, it's pretty much obvious by now that qualifying tournament and Olympics will be played by 2nd rate and 3rd rate players... You can forget the quality NBA players participating in this thing with all of their massive overblown NBA contracts tying them up to their club teams. There is no way any NBA exec or owner will release their key player into some international event when NBA season is still taking place imo

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    Well its how it is. In the worst case there will be no NBA players at all. Some teams will be affected more than others but the team with the biggest player pool or least NBA players will have an advantage. Many things can happen till then.

    I would cry if I was Canadian. So many extraordinarily talented guys but they never manage to get them together. Slovenia without Doncic... Lithuania without Sabonis and JV... Croatia without Bogdanovic, Zubac, Saric... Germany without Kleber and Schröder... Greece without Giannis... Turkey without Korkmaz, Osman, Ilyasova and probably without Yurtseven... Mentioning Canadians would take too long... Serbs will take a big damage but also the team that will face the least damage because of countless Euroleague players.

    In our case I am eager to see some young guns. I think we can build a competitive team with Larkin + some names that will lead some teams this season. Sometimes its good to sacrifice a tournament to add new names. Will be a great experience for them. Despite losing tons of Talent in our group Canada is still the favorite and I think Lithuania will make it too, Serbia of course too, so it wont make a big difference.

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    in main Olympic tournament i can see some nba players playing.

    Olympics starts around July 25th 14 nba teams players that wont make the playoffs should be free by that date .Maybe even players that team losses in first round.

    Ofcourse if nba decides to start season like in February no nba players at all. From Silver talks that ale nba seasons starts in January is looking like good scenerio at this moment in time.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 09-23-2020 at 02:31 AM.

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    It will hurt everyone, of course. But apart of that it's really a pitty not to see the best players in the world in the Olympics beside this. According to WOJ end of january is planned so I suppose that regular season will be exactly over before olympic tournament starts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    I would cry if I was Canadian. So many extraordinarily talented guys but they never manage to get them together.
    We have no tears left to cry. This has been going on for so long, it is to be expected at this point. We just have to be happy with seeing how much Canadian basketball has improved over he last ten years and get our fix watching the NBA and European leagues, rather than any pride in a once every 4 years FIBA tournament. Watching the young kids like Jamal Murray morph into an elite players is a joy in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Despite losing tons of Talent in our group Canada is still the favorite and I think Lithuania will make it too, Serbia of course too, so it wont make a big difference.
    Toruko - help me understand why you think Canada would still be the favorite to Qualify (is home court that much of an advantage?) . I (and most Canadian fans) don't see it that way. I figured Greece was the big favorite now in our pool - isn't it a team full of EuroLegaue players that has shown pretty good form and chemistry in the past without Giannis? And I'm not as familiar with Turkey's depth, but Larkin should be the best player in the tournament supported by some decent EuroLegaue level players, no?
    Even the Czechs seem formidable if everyone is without NBA players - due to chemistry, experience and consistency.

    Canada will likely be formed by one or two average Euroleague players (Pangos, Pierre) and a bunch of BCL and EuroCup players (Wiltjer, Ennis & Ennis, the Scrubb brothers, Melvin Ejim). Perhaps we get ex-NBA'r Andrew Nicholson out of China (CBA). It is not the most impressive list of names but perhaps we can keep a core of 8 or 9 guys from the World Cup team together and have some level of chemistry and experience.

    I think we can come close to matching our World Cup team which had a core of Cory Joseph, Khem Birch, Brady Heslip, Kevin Pangos, Kyle Wiltjer, Melvin Ejim, Conor Morgan, Owne Klassen, T. Scrubb, P. Scrubb. We'd lose Cory Joseph, Khem Birch, Brady Heslip but could add Tyler Ennis, Andrew Nicholson, Dyshawn Pierre, Dylan Ennis etc). I still think this is a decent team, but would it really be favored over Greece? Or Turkey?
    What do you think Turkey and Greece rosters will be like? Are we overlooking Czech who might only lose one player (their best) from that good WC team?

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    Toruko - help me understand why you think Canada would still be the favorite to Qualify (is home court that much of an advantage?) . I (and most Canadian fans) don't see it that way. I figured Greece was the big favorite now in our pool - isn't it a team full of EuroLegaue players that has shown pretty good form and chemistry in the past without Giannis? And I'm not as familiar with Turkey's depth, but Larkin should be the best player in the tournament supported by some decent EuroLegaue level players, no?
    Even the Czechs seem formidable if everyone is without NBA players - due to chemistry, experience and consistency.
    Well, let me explain then. Lets start with Turkey. Turkeys main power comes from its 4 players included Larkin. Sure there are some guys who could compete but they are frankly said too unexperienced. Especially the bench will be far too weak. Incidently the team will have no time to prepare. I dont see any chance how Turkey could beat such a deep roster such as Canada has. In a one against one game everything to a certain point is possible though.

    Greece surely has some advantages like experience and chemistry but it is also a super short roster, far too old and after the retirement of Bourousis pretty weak under the rim. I dont take Papagiannis seriously. He has too many deficiencies on the defensive end and is pretty much one dimensional which is on the other hand not a big problem when you have guards like Calathes and Sloukas. So what is left? A pretty solid guard rotation with Calathes and Sloukas who will have become 32 and 31 and my favorite Greek player Printezis, pretty solid but 36 year old. This team has no rim protection and no shooting. With Giannis things would change especially defensively but Canada is still much deeper and has more versatility.

    The Czechs will lose their main organizer with Satoransky who leads a pretty much Champions League level team. Its a good prepared team with clear roles. The skill set is also not bad. The big short balance is also given but the overall talent especially without Sato is pretty limited and there is nobody who could take the lead to change things when it comes difficult times.

    If Canada doesnt make it this time in Canada I really dont know when they can make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post

    If Canada doesnt make it this time in Canada I really dont know when they can make it.
    Yeah...I'm gonna guess, maybe when we have access to just handful of our top 20+ players?
    Not for a second am I going to think we are doomed if we don't qualify for the Olympics under these circumstances.
    This is not a blip for Canada...not a "Golden Generation" that has a limited window, this is a fundamental, long-term shift in the sporting culture of the nation. It's been decades in the making driven by demographic changes and generational shifts in sporting interests. It is not going away.


    Thank you for the insight on the rest of your post by the way. But I'm not convinced that Canada would be favored out of that pool - but we likely need to see how the respective rosters shape up to get a better feel. A key injury now for Canada, Turkey, Greece, Czech will have a much more serious impact. Plus we can't forget we have China in our pool, who knows what lengths FIBA will go to see them Qualify?

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    Italy’s NBAers hope that the league will find a way for international players to be in Olympics/Qualifiers

    12/Oct/20 17:35

    Next year’s NBA schedule will make it impossible for many NBAers to be with their national teams in the Olympics.

    By Antonis Stroggylakis / [email protected]

    The possibilities of many NBA players, including major stars, joining their national teams in the Olympics and their Qualifiers are currently appearing to be less than slim after NBA commissioner Adam Silver said that it’s “unlikely” that the league will stop for the games in Tokyo.

    With the 2021 NBA regular season beginning no earlier than January and if it features the usual schedule of 82 games over a period of six months, then it will be concluded in early June (the best-case scenario) or maybe even July. The Olympic Qualifiers, featuring NBA players-led national teams like Serbia, Canada, Greece, Italy or Slovenia, are planned to start on June 29.

    There’s no way for someone like back-to-back NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo or Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic for example, to play in the Qualifiers… unless their clubs don’t make the playoffs.

    The whole situation creates an unpleasant reality for all those players that were hoping to be with their national teams in the Olympic summer, including Italy’s Danilo Gallinari, Marco Belinelli, and Nicolo Melli The three Italian national team stars hope that the NBA will find some way to accommodate their need and desire to play with their country next summer and that a solution will be found.

    “We asked the Players Association (NBPA) to work to find an agreement for a window to leave the NBA and go to the national team,” Gallinari said during the “Festival dello Sport,” organized by Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport. “And to ensure that the players don’t have to face an unjust and difficult choice.”

    Belinelli mentioned that the absence of NBA stars from the Olympics is hurtful for both the league and the tournament in Tokyo. “The Olympics can’t exist without NBA stars,” Belinelli said. “It would be bad. We all care about our country’s jerseys and we all want to play in the Olympics.”

    Italy will play in the Qualifying tournament in Belgrade, Serbia, along with Senegal, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and the hosts.

    “It would be a shame. Also for the NBA which had has an international MVP for two years,” Melli said, referring to Antetokounmpo. The Greek Freak will also most probably miss the Qualifying tournament in Toronto, Canada where his country will compete for a spot in the Olympics.

    “But we must also be very realistic, we are experiencing something unique,” Melli added.
    Lets hope that at least some guys can attend to the qualifiers.

    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-new...cs-qualifiers/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Lets hope that at least some guys can attend to the qualifiers.

    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-new...cs-qualifiers/

    That provides a small (small!) glimmer of optimism. Perhaps the Qualifiers will see some NBA players from some bad teams that are well eliminated from the playoffs even if the regular season has not fully concluded. Or maybe some deep bench / two-way players who will not be included on reduced playoff rosters can be released.

    Not that these players are any better than what can be mustered out of Europe it could provide some teams some added depth, or file a key hole.

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