2020 Olympic Qualifying Tournaments

[Straight forward]

Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.

I have to spill some scepticism to give a bit of balance here Not here to say Canada doesn't have big time talent and potential, but to make few points here. The core is young. We do remember how young USA, still likely more talented than even full rostered Canada team can be, with Kemba, Mitchel, Tatum, Turner looked in 2019 WC. FOA, I doubt Wiggins will even show up, and his game majorly based on athleticism rather than his streaky and inconsistent skillset in the NBA would have harder transition into FIBA ball. Remember all my rants about how FIBA ball is still way different than NBA, you disagreed, but it tuned out to be all spot on. Those from decent to good shooters in NBA, struggled to shoot in the NT, because the angles are narrower, defence narrower, space to go ISO is narrower, there's no three second D violation, ect. As I predicted many non- FIBA familiar individuals would struggle, even the MVP of NBA. Back to Canada, Murray is not better than Kemba who couldn't lead USA. Alexander to me looks like the most dangerous peace from Canada, with his very interesting skillset and size, he may be very dangerous, but still 21yo without any ideas what's FIBA ball. I like Barret, but he will need time, Clarke is also raw guy in terms of do or die environment. Thompson with his skillset, or rather no-skillset and big body action is no different maker in contemporary basketball, those are usually better in wide NBA courts a bit, but much more limited in FIBA. So is this pretty ridiculous talent out of nowhere for non-NBA followers suddenly? Yes. Is this Canada even at the level of 2019 WC USA team as a whole? No, because those 9-12th players won't be as quality and their keys are not better than Mitchel, Kemba, Tatum. Would this team instantly be at the levels of proven and established FIBA contenders as France, Spain, Serbia? I doubt it.

[usagre]

@Straight Forward

Mentioning Tatum when discussing 2019 USA is silly because he basically didn’t play in the tournament.
And as we look back despite having a very poor roster other than a couple of guys and being absolutely horribly coached, that team was only a fourth quarter collapse away from being undefeated and playing Argentina in the semifinal. So we can look back now and just look at the 7th place finish but the reality is the team despite Popovich’s horrible style of play and coaching decisions especially in the crucial France game not withstanding was right there.

As for Canada, my main point is how a country historically not known for producing basketball talent has had an explosion.
I don’t know if they will ever all get together and compete or even if it will translate in results. But if ones main argument is not really against the talent but rather other mitigating factors that might hold a team back that says a lot right there.
The bottom line is that for th most part without top end talent you’re not going to succeed even in these short one and done tournaments. Fluky scenarios like what Argentina pulled off getting to the Final can happen especially in lesser tournaments like the Worlds as opposed to the Olympics but it’s not the norm. Give me the talent any day over smoke and mirrors and more times than not I love my chances and will be successful.

[usagre]

@StraightForward

Are you seriously arguing that excellent NBA shooters historically have difficulty in FIBA play ?

[usagre]

Like I have said before, the “FiBA game” argument is antiquated. The styles of play are the closest they have ever been between the leagues. Success in these short tournaments is due to many factors like luck, team cohesion but talent still trumps all of them.

[Straight forward]

@StraightForward

Are you seriously arguing that excellent NBA shooters historically have difficulty in FIBA play ?

Tough question. Let's take it from 2000. All good in it. 2004 huge struggle. 2008 so so (James, Wade shot flat out, but Bryant, Paull, Williams kinda struggled from down town). 2012 no problem. 2016 more of a struggle, except Durrant and Anthony. To sum up, I argue that in FIBA it's harder to shoot because the angles are narrower, court smaller, defence rougher and more collective. If we collect all shooting of greats in Olympic games since 1992 I kinda would expect to see more of those struggling than succeeding (shooting worse than they do in NBA), but too lazy for going to such broad data research.

Like I have said before, the “FiBA game” argument is antiquated. The styles of play are the closest they have ever been between the leagues. Success in these short tournaments is due to many factors like luck, team cohesion but talent still trumps all of them.

Absolutely disagree. And I'm more than sure on this one. 40 minutes means way tougher defence and higher physical intensity. You gotta give some credit to Jasikevicius right? He provided some solid basketball with mediocre rosters. He says there's huge difference in EL and NBA, in El it's almost literal fist fight to extent. Also angles and tunnels are way more narrow, like it changes a lot, you need much more precise skillset, different, faster timing. Super skilled NBA superstars will transcend that, but even for them it's requires additional attempt, adjustments, and many solid NBA guys would really feel that. There's more, but the size of the court is the key, it changes so much, and also 40 minutes games which allows EL/FIBA teams to get used to very physical clashes often catches young NBA players not ready for this. FIBA and NBA are 2 different worlds. There's much more defence in EL. It's easier to score in NBA, Doncic talked about that and one guy recently repeated that, can't remember who. Bogdanovic maybe? The best example I think is centers. In NBA some of them are messing around. But when it comes to FIBA, they are so limited, there's no enough space, the angles are tight, the decisions should be instant, no room to play slow and comfortable 1 on 1 grizzly post game. JV, Vucevic, even Jokic are way better in NBA, like way. So that's that, I have no idea how you came up it's a no factor, specially when your USA highly struggled in FIBA. If USA won't collect some of their superstars, there will be a struggle in FIBA

[Straight forward]

I mean, should we even dig deep? Giannis, freakin' NBA MVP, just as he came back to NBA courts after WC, said something like: "I'm breathing again, finally got out of the cage" Enough said.

[usagre]

Come on Straight Forward cut it out. The US hadn’t lost a game for over a decade until this past year in which like I said earlier was a weak roster and was horribly coached. They were right there against France but lost and was eliminated by basically 5 NBA players. It’s always about the talent.

The main point you are missing is that these are short tournaments and many variables come into play. Just do this exercise in your head and matchup teams in 7 game series and let me know when you would pick the less talented team to prevail.
Sure the games are not 100% identical but it’s close to it and not the wide disparity and differences you argue. It’s all three point shooting and no low post play across the board. In the 1990’s it was different because the NBA didn’t shoot the three as much and had low post bigs. Those days are long gone.

[usagre]

I mean, should we even dig deep? Giannis, freakin' NBA MVP, just as he came back to NBA courts after WC, said something like: "I'm breathing again, finally got out of the cage" Enough said.

Yeah but what you’re missing is that he didn’t have the talent along side him. Let’s put his Milwaukee Bucks teammates alongside him and and substitute them for his Greek Fiba teammates and I think he would be breathing just fine.
Don’t you ?

[usagre]

Bringing up 2004 is not relevant or appropriate in this discussion because they had no shooters. All other teams shot just fine and I don’t see any excellent NBA three point shooter struggle. Kobe ? He’s a streaky shooter from that range.
All others that are known for that skill have historically done just fine.

[Straight forward]

Come on Straight Forward cut it out. The US hadn’t lost a game for over a decade until this past year in which like I said earlier was a weak roster and was horribly coached. They were right there against France but lost and was eliminated by basically 5 NBA players. It’s always about the talent.

That's part of my point. Non-superstars NBA players without FIBA experience would struggle or have to adjust, would need time to get used to FIBA. It wasn't only bad coaching, it was things that I talked also. That stretch of USA winning was exactly because of USA taking FIBA and it's differences seriously they analysed game, they prepared, they send their best players, ect. This only empowers my point. We saw what happened when USA can't do that.

The main point you are missing is that these are short tournaments and many variables come into play. Just do this exercise in your head and matchup teams in 7 game series and let me know when you would pick the less talented team to prevail.
Sure the games are not 100% identical but it’s close to it and not the wide disparity and differences you argue. It’s all three point shooting and no low post play across the board. In the 1990’s it was different because the NBA didn’t shoot the three as much and had low post bigs. Those days are long gone.

That's why it's FIBA. You actually named another difference between NBA and FIBA. FIBA is not even NBA PO, it's much quicker, intense, do or die thing. And again, the width of the court changes everything including shooting.

Yeah but what you’re missing is that he didn’t have the talent along side him. Let’s put his Milwaukee Bucks teammates alongside him and and substitute them for his Greek Fiba teammates and I think he would be breathing just fine.
Don’t you ?

That's a lame excuse We can put otherwise, Scola was so good in WC because his teammates were so crappy. It's about the skillset, and in Giannis case it's more than obvious. In NBA even being poor shooter he get tons of open looks compared to fiba which helps him. But even that it's not the point, in NBA you barely can stop Giannis' athleticism and explosiveness, in FIBA there are ways and we exactly saw that. Sure, Giannis is MVP of the league because of good teammate, come on man.

Bringing up 2004 is not relevant or appropriate in this discussion because they had no shooters. All other teams shot just fine and I don’t see any excellent NBA three point shooter struggle. Kobe ? He’s a streaky shooter from that range.
All others that are known for that skill have historically done just fine.

Nah, man it's not only about Kobe. And was Iverson or Marbury bad NBA shooters? But anyway, in 2016 such great shooters as Irwing, K. Thompson, P. George struggled. In 2008 Paul, Williams, Redd struggled, even Anthony didn't particularly shine. There's a bunch of them who struggled in FIBA.

[usagre]

Yes Iverson and Marbury were not good shooters and Iverson as a matter of fact shot just fine in the Olympics from three.
The point you are missing is that these are small sample sizes. They have nothing to do with it being FiBa play. Klay Thompson had equivalent 8 game stretches during NBA seasons where he shot awful. What does that mean ? So you are talking a small sample size and jumping to conclusions.

[Straight forward]

How the fact the corridors, looks, angles, ISO spaces are much more tight, narrow in FIBA than in NBA has small sample?

[usagre]

If you think the four other players you surround Giannis with on the court don’t play a role on how effective or successful he is then I don’t know what to tell you. If you don’t put good complimentary pieces around a superstar that allow his skills and abilities to flourish then you get what you got with Greece in ‘19.
He was the MVP of the NBA because Milwaukee did just that by playing to his strengths. But in the playoffs his flaws were exposed just like they were in the Worlds because games are basically do or die knockouts.
So it has nothing to do with FIBA being different.

[usagre]

How the fact the corridors, looks, angles, ISO spaces are much more tight, narrow in FIBA than in NBA has small sample?

You seriously reaching with this stuff. Are they factors sure to some degree. But please don’t overhype them. It’s still basketball and it’s about the talent. In Basketball unlike other sports the best team usually wins the championship because it’s played out over a series of games. Like the NCAA tournament where many monster super teams have been beaten over the years is mainly due to the one and done scenario. That minimizes all the talent advantages a team has because it’s about one day and 40 minutes.

[Straight forward]

25.5/ 12.3/ 5 PO campaign perfectly match his FIBA performance...