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Thread: 2020 Olympic Qualifying Tournaments

  1. #61
    Senior Member Italian Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    15th of November. Serbia sent request for hosting one of the tournaments today. Others as far as I know Russia, Greece, Lithuania, Croatia.
    Thanks


    Russia?where do you read about t?

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    The National Federations of Canada (Victoria), Croatia (Split), Lithuania (Kaunas) and Serbia (Belgrade) have been awarded the hosting rights of the four FIBA Men's Olympic Qualifying Tournaments, from June 23 to 28, 2020.
    https://www.fiba.basketball/news/fib...unced-for-2020

    Great news for us. Now let's wait for the draw on 27th


  3. #63
    Senior Member Italian Pride's Avatar
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    now we attend the pot

    according to ranking cryteria Russia and Greece will play in Canada or Croatia

    i don't think that firs pot will be with the 4 host,but with Fiba never say never

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Pride View Post
    now we attend the pot

    according to ranking cryteria Russia and Greece will play in Canada and Croatia

    i
    FIBA said it will geographically established pots, so only in it rankings will apply IMO. Let's say we have 8 European teams left, so obviously there should be 2 pots of 4 and probably they will be picked by ranking - in 1st one higher ranked, in 2nd lower:

    1: Greece, Russia, Czechs, Italy
    2: Poland, Turkey, Slovenia, Germany

    Also I guess Canada will get only 1 Americas team in their group, so other 5 will be drawn in European OQT (2+2+1)

    1: Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dominican Rep., Venezuela
    2: Mexico, Uruguay

    Lithuania - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
    Serbia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
    Croatia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
    Canada - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Asia - Africa

    Only a guess of course


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    Good for Canada, though I'm surprised they went with Victoria over the Toronto area or Vancouver proper
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    FIBA said it will geographically established pots, so only in it rankings will apply IMO. Let's say we have 8 European teams left, so obviously there should be 2 pots of 4 and probably they will be picked by ranking - in 1st one higher ranked, in 2nd lower:

    1: Greece, Russia, Czechs, Italy
    2: Poland, Turkey, Slovenia, Germany

    Also I guess Canada will get only 1 Americas team in their group, so other 5 will be drawn in European OQT (2+2+1)

    1: Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dominican Rep., Venezuela
    2: Mexico, Uruguay

    Lithuania - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
    Serbia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
    Croatia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
    Canada - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Asia - Africa

    Only a guess of course

    7 american teams,so in the 3 tournament will be two americans NT,in one group only one

    in Canada's tournament will be at least 2 Europeans Team

    Canada
    Eu
    Eu
    Asia
    Africa
    Eu or Ame

    i think in one of the european tournament will be only 2 European teams (host + another)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    Good for Canada
    Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
    Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

    Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.
    Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Pride View Post

    i think in one of the european tournament will be only 2 European teams (host + another)
    It depends on how draw rules will be settled. If the way I wrote, then these 8 teams ( 2 different pots) will be drawn into all 4 groups with 2 each without any additional precautions, so it makes two Euros for Canada and two for each other host. If pots will be different, and there'll be rule "no more than 3 Euros in one group", then there'll be a chance for Canada to have 3 too


  9. #69
    Senior Member Italian Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    It depends on how draw rules will be settled. If the way I wrote, then these 8 teams ( 2 different pots) will be drawn into all 4 groups with 2 each without any additional precautions, so it makes two Euros for Canada and two for each other host. If pots will be different, and there'll be rule "no more than 3 Euros in one group", then there'll be a chance for Canada to have 3 too
    Fiba says:

    <i> The draw will divide qualified teams from the five FIBA regions into geographically balanced groups </i>

    so three european teams ine ach tournament,except one of them

    if you consider that african plus asiatic team are six team,it means that one tournament will be composed between:

    3 european NT
    1 asiatic "
    1 african "
    1 american "

    and if i'm right with the previous sentence in the other three tournament will be 2 american NT for each tournament

    so another tournament will be composed between:

    2 european NT
    2 american "
    1 african "
    1 asiatic "

    are you agree with me Mindozas?Does my reasoning make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    Good for Canada, though I'm surprised they went with Victoria over the Toronto area or Vancouver proper
    Victoria (and the promoters) put on a really good event a couple years ago in a series of friendlies with China. It was well attended and well done.

    Victoria is a mid sized city (400K pop.) with no pro sports teams and not a good amount of entertainment options. It is a pretty good bball town and it has a nice 7000 person stadium that will likely be sold out and tickets at a premium. It is also close enough to Vancouver to draw a good crowd from there. Events like this can get lost in a crowded sports scene in Toronto - it will be a main event in Victoria.

    Putting China here would be smart by FIBA - with the huge Chinese population in Victoria and Vancouver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
    Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

    Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.
    Call me Charlie Brown but I think it is going to all come together this summer. It is on home soil - no more excuses!

    We really only need half these guys to show up....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post

    We really only need half these guys to show up....
    That just illustrates the incredible depth. 3 of the top 15 NBA leaders in minutes played are Canadian, and 5 of the top 45.
    That’s 5 guys playing 33+ minutes a game. Couple that with the fact that all 11 of those guys are either in their prime now or even years away from achieving it. If it ever comes together a lot of non NBA followers are in for a shock when they see the talent that Canada has developed.
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  13. #73
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    2016 tournament was great fun in Belgrade. Hope it will be as good as back then next year. Very interesting tournaments up coming.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Pride View Post
    are you agree with me Mindozas?Does my reasoning make sense?
    It makes sense, I think we are close to what will happen. But actually funny thing is that we don't even know how the tournaments will shape up, will it be round robin format, or as it was done previously - 2 group with 3 teams each, then semis and final. Latter makes more sense bearing mind mind that it will be 6 days tournament.

    Btw, I re-watched 2016 draw ceremony, so if FIBA will keep the same system, then all hosts won't be in 1st pot, but will be drawn later with their geographical "neighbors". Serbia and Lithuania will be in the same what so ever then due to ranking. But again, with FIBA you can never know what will happen

    Anyway, if it will be the same like in 2016, I'd guess smth like that

    1 pot: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
    2 pot: Czech Rep, Italy, Poland, Croatia
    3 pot: Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dominican Rep, Venezuela
    4 pot: Canada, Turkey, Slovenia, Germany
    5 pot: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, New Zealand
    6 pot: Mexico, Uruguay, China, Korea


  15. #75
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    The pots will be decided in a few days. I think there are two scenarios. In the first one the pots should be:

    Based only on FIBA Rankings.

    Pot1: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
    Pot2: Czech Rep., Brazil, Italy, Poland
    Pot3: Croatia, Turkey, Slovenia, Puerto Rico
    Pot4: Germany, Dominican Rep., Venezuela, Canada
    Pot5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
    Pot6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay

    In this case Canada and Croatia are favored because they avoid Serbia and Lithuania. Furthermore Canada will avoid six teams: Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania, Germany, Venezuela and DR. On the other hand Croatia will skip Serbia, Lithuania, Canada, Turkey, Slovenia and PR. If these two teams gather all their good players, they will have a very good advantage for the Olympics. In this scenario geographical restrictions are a little mess.
    There is a second scenario, with slim chances. Then the pots should be:

    Based on hosts and FIA rankings.

    Pot1: Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania,Canada
    Pot2: Greece, Russia Czech Rep., Brazil
    Pot3: Italy, Poland, Turkey, Slovenia
    Pot4: Puerto Rico, Germany, Dominican Rep., Venezuela
    Pot5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
    Pot6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay

    In that case the pots are more clear and FIBA can define geographical restrictions. But it's a bit unfair for some teams that they will lose their ranking in the favour of the host teams.

    P.S. Brazil's position in the draw is a question mark and will define the America's pots.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
    Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

    Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.
    I have to spill some scepticism to give a bit of balance here Not here to say Canada doesn't have big time talent and potential, but to make few points here. The core is young. We do remember how young USA, still likely more talented than even full rostered Canada team can be, with Kemba, Mitchel, Tatum, Turner looked in 2019 WC. FOA, I doubt Wiggins will even show up, and his game majorly based on athleticism rather than his streaky and inconsistent skillset in the NBA would have harder transition into FIBA ball. Remember all my rants about how FIBA ball is still way different than NBA, you disagreed, but it tuned out to be all spot on. Those from decent to good shooters in NBA, struggled to shoot in the NT, because the angles are narrower, defence narrower, space to go ISO is narrower, there's no three second D violation, ect. As I predicted many non- FIBA familiar individuals would struggle, even the MVP of NBA. Back to Canada, Murray is not better than Kemba who couldn't lead USA. Alexander to me looks like the most dangerous peace from Canada, with his very interesting skillset and size, he may be very dangerous, but still 21yo without any ideas what's FIBA ball. I like Barret, but he will need time, Clarke is also raw guy in terms of do or die environment. Thompson with his skillset, or rather no-skillset and big body action is no different maker in contemporary basketball, those are usually better in wide NBA courts a bit, but much more limited in FIBA. So is this pretty ridiculous talent out of nowhere for non-NBA followers suddenly? Yes. Is this Canada even at the level of 2019 WC USA team as a whole? No, because those 9-12th players won't be as quality and their keys are not better than Mitchel, Kemba, Tatum. Would this team instantly be at the levels of proven and established FIBA contenders as France, Spain, Serbia? I doubt it.
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    @Straight Forward

    Mentioning Tatum when discussing 2019 USA is silly because he basically didn’t play in the tournament.
    And as we look back despite having a very poor roster other than a couple of guys and being absolutely horribly coached, that team was only a fourth quarter collapse away from being undefeated and playing Argentina in the semifinal. So we can look back now and just look at the 7th place finish but the reality is the team despite Popovich’s horrible style of play and coaching decisions especially in the crucial France game not withstanding was right there.

    As for Canada, my main point is how a country historically not known for producing basketball talent has had an explosion.
    I don’t know if they will ever all get together and compete or even if it will translate in results. But if ones main argument is not really against the talent but rather other mitigating factors that might hold a team back that says a lot right there.
    The bottom line is that for th most part without top end talent you’re not going to succeed even in these short one and done tournaments. Fluky scenarios like what Argentina pulled off getting to the Final can happen especially in lesser tournaments like the Worlds as opposed to the Olympics but it’s not the norm. Give me the talent any day over smoke and mirrors and more times than not I love my chances and will be successful.
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    @StraightForward

    Are you seriously arguing that excellent NBA shooters historically have difficulty in FIBA play ?
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  19. #79
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    Like I have said before, the “FiBA game” argument is antiquated. The styles of play are the closest they have ever been between the leagues. Success in these short tournaments is due to many factors like luck, team cohesion but talent still trumps all of them.
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  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    @StraightForward

    Are you seriously arguing that excellent NBA shooters historically have difficulty in FIBA play ?
    Tough question. Let's take it from 2000. All good in it. 2004 huge struggle. 2008 so so (James, Wade shot flat out, but Bryant, Paull, Williams kinda struggled from down town). 2012 no problem. 2016 more of a struggle, except Durrant and Anthony. To sum up, I argue that in FIBA it's harder to shoot because the angles are narrower, court smaller, defence rougher and more collective. If we collect all shooting of greats in Olympic games since 1992 I kinda would expect to see more of those struggling than succeeding (shooting worse than they do in NBA), but too lazy for going to such broad data research.

    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Like I have said before, the “FiBA game” argument is antiquated. The styles of play are the closest they have ever been between the leagues. Success in these short tournaments is due to many factors like luck, team cohesion but talent still trumps all of them.
    Absolutely disagree. And I'm more than sure on this one. 40 minutes means way tougher defence and higher physical intensity. You gotta give some credit to Jasikevicius right? He provided some solid basketball with mediocre rosters. He says there's huge difference in EL and NBA, in El it's almost literal fist fight to extent. Also angles and tunnels are way more narrow, like it changes a lot, you need much more precise skillset, different, faster timing. Super skilled NBA superstars will transcend that, but even for them it's requires additional attempt, adjustments, and many solid NBA guys would really feel that. There's more, but the size of the court is the key, it changes so much, and also 40 minutes games which allows EL/FIBA teams to get used to very physical clashes often catches young NBA players not ready for this. FIBA and NBA are 2 different worlds. There's much more defence in EL. It's easier to score in NBA, Doncic talked about that and one guy recently repeated that, can't remember who. Bogdanovic maybe? The best example I think is centers. In NBA some of them are messing around. But when it comes to FIBA, they are so limited, there's no enough space, the angles are tight, the decisions should be instant, no room to play slow and comfortable 1 on 1 grizzly post game. JV, Vucevic, even Jokic are way better in NBA, like way. So that's that, I have no idea how you came up it's a no factor, specially when your USA highly struggled in FIBA. If USA won't collect some of their superstars, there will be a struggle in FIBA
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