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Thread: 2020 Olympic Qualifying Tournaments

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    We can create a petition with millions signatures, it won't change a thing. FIBA simply doesn't give a fck. So all we can do is talk and hope it won't get worse - they can always change rule to two players. I know that such idea already was born some time ago, good that didn't have much support
    You can see it either way. Many countries are too small and lack somewhere (mostly Center position or PG). Its a way to make them more competitive and the bb more attractive. Dont get me wrong i already mentioned that i am against it too but i can understand the circumstances.

    Even Lithuania lacks in play making position but its also honorable to say no to a naturalized player. My red line is the education of a player not the birth place, skin color etc. The player must represent your basketball culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    You can see it either way. Many countries are too small and lack somewhere (mostly Center position or PG). Its a way to make them more competitive and the bb more attractive. Dont get me wrong i already mentioned that i am against it too but i can understand the circumstances.

    Even Lithuania lacks in play making position but its also honorable to say no to a naturalized player. My red line is the education of a player not the birth place, skin color etc. The player must represent your basketball culture.
    I get the reason behind it too, but I don't accept it. We have clubs for that. My criteria are two - born in that country or has parental connection with it, ok I can go till grandparents. I'm against all other cases. It really looks crazy when country doesn't have C, so they get one, some lacks PG - let's naturalize it. It makes no sense at all in national team competition. I don't want to sound like some nationalistic person, cause I'm not, but its just absurd. In my eyes, with naturalized player team becomes not national team anymore. But as I wrote - it's only FIBA to blame, they made it all too easy


  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I get the reason behind it too, but I don't accept it. We have clubs for that. My criteria are two - born in that country or has parental connection with it, ok I can go till grandparents. I'm against all other cases. It really looks crazy when country doesn't have C, so they get one, some lacks PG - let's naturalize it. It makes no sense at all in national team competition. I don't want to sound like some nationalistic person, cause I'm not, but its just absurd. In my eyes, with naturalized player team becomes not national team anymore. But as I wrote - it's only FIBA to blame, they made it all too easy
    As long as the rules are for every national team its bothering but acceptable. Some more criteria like a naturalized player has to play at least 3 years in a domestic league to play for the nt it would be better but the rules wont be changed entirely so its unnecessary to discuss about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I get the reason behind it too, but I don't accept it. We have clubs for that. My criteria are two - born in that country or has parental connection with it, ok I can go till grandparents. I'm against all other cases. It really looks crazy when country doesn't have C, so they get one, some lacks PG - let's naturalize it. It makes no sense at all in national team competition. I don't want to sound like some nationalistic person, cause I'm not, but its just absurd. In my eyes, with naturalized player team becomes not national team anymore. But as I wrote - it's only FIBA to blame, they made it all too easy
    I agree 100%. If our national team starts naturalizing which I hope it won't ever it would be worse than taking 3 Olympic Golds in a row with some random Americans.

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    This problem in my opinion is rooted in the club team roster makeup change. When a European club team has 8 Americans on its roster something is wrong. After time it becomes it becomes normal and the next logical step is to extend that although obviously in a less prominent way to national teams. The old days of limiting foreigners to a couple of roster spots was the best way to keep the integrity of national leagues. These individual leagues are not international leagues and shouldn’t be treated as such. I understand that the Euroleague attempts to be one but the NBA is truly the only one.
    These Euroleague members also participate in their national leagues. If they didn’t then fine you can truly make the Euroleague an international league. I know there’s no going back now but I think that’s where this problem began and it will only get worse in the future for National teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    This problem in my opinion is rooted in the club team roster makeup change. When a European club team has 8 Americans on its roster something is wrong. After time it becomes it becomes normal and the next logical step is to extend that although obviously in a less prominent way to national teams. The old days of limiting foreigners to a couple of roster spots was the best way to keep the integrity of national leagues. These individual leagues are not international leagues and shouldn’t be treated as such. I understand that the Euroleague attempts to be one but the NBA is truly the only one.
    These Euroleague members also participate in their national leagues. If they didn’t then fine you can truly make the Euroleague an international league. I know there’s no going back now but I think that’s where this problem began and it will only get worse in the future for National teams.
    The problem is the changing gamestyle. The most effective way to defend pick and roll games is switching and the most effective way to take down switching defenses are guards who can penetrate. The short player are so strong right now that you can switch almost 1 to 5 without big problem.

    European player are not as agile and fast as it needs to be to take an advantage. Thats the reason why american player are preferred. Europe has a big problem in the pg position. There are not more than 2-3 european pg that could be raised for the competitive levels. Doncic is the best one but guys like micic etc can be mentioned too.

    Even bb countries like Lithuania has big play making problems. We turks had this problem always but the problem became even more severe after Kerem Tunceri etc.

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    @Toruko

    Yes but the African American athlete was always the best suited to play the game of basketball. You can pick any decade in history. So what really changed now ? I think it’s what I mentioned above as well as an overall loss of National identity and the prevailing globalist views of our times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    @Toruko

    Yes but the African American athlete was always the best suited to play the game of basketball. You can pick any decade in history. So what really changed now ? I think it’s what I mentioned above as well as an overall loss of National identity and the prevailing globalist views of our times.
    Int the beginning of the century and in previous times a team was built around a dominant center. The change of speed and this pace and space shooting bb made guards become more important. Nowadays a big is only useful for rebounding and rim protection and switching was not a major issue because guards were very weak. So the responsibilities of bigs and shorts changed. The lack of education in europe and the overproduction in the states made the situation even more severe of course.

    The main problem is that there are a bunch of bb countries who try to raise some prospect and fiba wants to include more countries and tries to catch more fan potential for bb.

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    Indeed, players naturalization started cause of limits on clubs level. It happened already in last century, when we had i.e. some Yugo players receiving Greek citizenship from rich Greek clubs to not be counted as foreigners, some Italian club players having double citizenships like i.e. Argentine/Italian, Spain clubs doing that with USA players, some even played in NT. When those limits were gone in Euroleague, big wave of USA players came to Europe, still some limits in local leagues were/are active, so obviously agents made deals with some federations to get Euro passports (mostly Balkans, then Azeri, Armenia was popular), in Spain there is Cotonou rule, so players from Africa are getting passports, even fake ones. Of course those countries which are giving away passports want smth back, so these USA players must represent them, at times federations were changing foreigners like socks, having big number of naturalized players to choose from - need C for some games they calls one, then needs PG then calls other.
    Playing style has nothing much to do with it. Let's say in Lithuania there was PG problem for few decades, luckily we had Saras, then Kalnietis, but never a decent back up. Mistakes in players developments in 90s made big impact also, schools were looking for new Sabonis like crazy, while guards were simply ignored, it looked like we'll have bunch of them forever


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Indeed, players naturalization started cause of limits on clubs level. It happened already in last century, when we had i.e. some Yugo players receiving Greek citizenship from rich Greek clubs to not be counted as foreigners, some Italian club players having double citizenships like i.e. Argentine/Italian, Spain clubs doing that with USA players, some even played in NT. When those limits were gone in Euroleague, big wave of USA players came to Europe, still some limits in local leagues were/are active, so obviously agents made deals with some federations to get Euro passports (mostly Balkans, then Azeri, Armenia was popular), in Spain there is Cotonou rule, so players from Africa are getting passports, even fake ones. Of course those countries which are giving away passports want smth back, so these USA players must represent them, at times federations were changing foreigners like socks, having big number of naturalized players to choose from - need C for some games they calls one, then needs PG then calls other.
    Playing style has nothing much to do with it. Let's say in Lithuania there was PG problem for few decades, luckily we had Saras, then Kalnietis, but never a decent back up. Mistakes in players developments in 90s made big impact also, schools were looking for new Sabonis like crazy, while guards were simply ignored, it looked like we'll have bunch of them forever
    If you think that Kalnietis is a good play maker then your expectations must be very low for a pg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    If you think that Kalnietis is a good play maker then your expectations must be very low for a pg.
    I know right - the guy is delusional at best lol
    Only Sharas was a world class PG, but he also had a lot of weaknesses, like being slow, unathletic and a black hole defensively all of the time lmao...Kalnietis was not even a Euroleague level most of the time when he played for Lithuania imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    I know right - the guy is delusional at best lol
    Only Sharas was a world class PG, but he also had a lot of weaknesses, like being slow, unathletic and a black hole defensively all of the time lmao...Kalnietis was not even a Euroleague level most of the time when he played for Lithuania imo
    He is a turnover machine. The last time I realized it was in Eurobasket 17 against Greece. LTU was fighting back but Kalnietis made 2 insane turnovers that broke the neck of lithuanian team. Saras was a good one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    If you think that Kalnietis is a good play maker then your expectations must be very low for a pg.
    You should read more carefully, I wrote had , nowadays Kalnietis is declined, but he had some hell of the tournaments with NT, like Rio Olympics, where he was simply great, one of the best PGs in the tournament at very top level. Overall, he was really fine with NT this decade and helped us a lot. So yeah, he was good. Probably you simply have no clue who was behind him on bench if you think I'm wrong with my statement in previous post... However he never managed to turn his club career into smth better, mostly cause of injuries, which chased him entire career and some wrong decisions, playing under poor coaches. He would have never reached star level, but it could've been better


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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    I agree 100%. If our national team starts naturalizing which I hope it won't ever it would be worse than taking 3 Olympic Golds in a row with some random Americans.
    We already had a naturalized player in both women and men national teams. Per FIBA regulations, Bosnia and Herzegovina native Ognjen Kuzmić, despite being of Serbian ethnicity, counts as a naturalized player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serbianhoops View Post
    We already had a naturalized player in both women and men national teams. Per FIBA regulations, Bosnia and Herzegovina native Ognjen Kuzmić, despite being of Serbian ethnicity, counts as a naturalized player.
    I'm aware of that and I don't have problems with that as the connection from Serbian players from Bosnia to Serbian national team is more often stronger than from those here. I spoke with Levenspiel about that thing before World Cup one time, of course it might seem unfair to others. For me Lukovski was also no problem. Like someone mentioned before, it's getting really funny when someone is trying to find some grandmothers and grandfathers who might have some ancestry in your country (but they are pure Americans) to give them citizenship. I would never accept Kaminsky for example even some guys are trying to argument with some pictures in some Serbian team from Chicago he had playing for in the age of 13-14. The guy is pure American and for me it hardly makes any difference to Rice in Montenegro. Rakocevic for example for me is okay, guy speaks Serbian even born overseas and played for Serbian U20, has strong bond with people here and is absolutely someone who could be called up.

    For women's basketball - neither I follow it nor I'm interested in it.

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    HOME • EN (English) • National Teams •

    Turkoglu: If meeting with Larkin’s agent goes well, we’ll see him with Turkey

    04/Jan/20 11:08

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    Shane Larkin is closer than ever to join the Turkish national team.

    By Eurohoops team / info@eurohoops.net

    Turkish Basketball Federation president Hedo Turkoglu said that a meeting between him and Shane Larkin’s agent will determine whether the star guard will join the Turkish national team as a naturalized player.

    “Me and my staff made attempts, together with Larkin’s agent. His agent is going to come to Turkey today. If the meeting goes well, we will see Shane Larkin with the jersey of the Turkish national team,” Turkoglu said to TRT network.
    Well it seems we will go with Larkin for the next time. Letting the origin discussion beside he is an upgrade in play making for sure. His agility and penetration will open up many spots for shooting and driving on the offensive end. A hell of a fast team. Defense will be a problem of course. No rim protection neither Erden nor Sanli nor Yurtseven gives you much at that point. Larkin is a pesky play maker but causes also many mismatches but our 95-97 generation develops well. Unlike in the past we will have a stable bench contribution which will make us more competitive.

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    Nationality is an imaginary construct. Russia & Slovenia didn't enjoy their Eurobasket golds any less because Americans were integral parts of their team. Macedonia has never had more fun than the Bo McCalebb run of 2011. Be grateful for the best players willing to put on your colors in the summer.

    If a naturalized American ever became the best basketball option I’d be happy to have him, regardless of his imagined “nationality.”
    Last edited by Chuck Diesel; 01-10-2020 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Diesel View Post
    Nationality is an imaginary construct. Russia & Slovenia didn't enjoy their Eurobasket golds any less because Americans were integral parts of their team. Macedonia has never had more fun than the Bo McCalebb run of 2011. Be grateful for the best players willing to put on your colors in the summer.

    If a naturalized American ever became the best basketball option I’d be happy to have him, regardless of his imagined “nationality.”
    Russia did enjoy it less, I've seen lot of negative opinions regarding naturalized players, lately even players admitted that they feel way better without any naturalized players on team, i.e. such Bolomboy wasn't that welcome in NT, even tho his mother is Russian. I can't say about general opinion in Slovenia or Macedonia, cause I'm not reading their forums/comments.
    Anyway, good that at least not much people in FIBA sees nationality in national team sports as imaginary construct


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    if a certain american hoops player spends a whole lot of time in a foreign country and eventually embraces it's culture, identity and language, who's to say that he's not eligible to play for the NT? The year is 2020 and the the world is becming boundaries-less more and more with each passing year. I say let the player decide if he truly feels like he belongs to the certain culture before condemning and ridiculing him

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    if a certain american hoops player spends a whole lot of time in a foreign country and eventually embraces it's culture, identity and language, who's to say that he's not eligible to play for the NT? The year is 2020 and the the world is becming boundaries-less more and more with each passing year. I say let the player decide if he truly feels like he belongs to the certain culture before condemning and ridiculing him
    Maybe because he is still American? It's not like one day you feel like don't want to eat meat anymore and you become vegetarian LOL. Maybe after good showing with new NT, the same player will move to bigger league, spend few years in other country and will start to feel even deeper connection, so let him play in that NT now, right? Or these feelings appears when Euro passport is needed to move to some Spanish ACB and not to be counted as foreigner + earn bigger money?
    Of course there are genuine cases, so only such cases should be allowed to fill that one naturalized player spot. Even tho it's still not ok, but this rule won't be abolished, so at least make more sense


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