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Thread: Group F: GRE-BRA-MNE-NZL

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    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Default Group F: GRE-BRA-MNE-NZL

    • Greece (Fiba World Rank: 008)
    • Brazil (Fiba World Rank: 012)
    • Montenegro (Fiba World Rank: 028)
    • New Zealand (Fiba World Rank: 038)



    1 September 2019

    New Zealand - Brazil
    16:00 GMT+08
    City, Arena: Nanjing, Gymnasium of Youth Olympic Games Sport Park
    Game day 1

    Greece - Montenegro
    20:00 GMT+08
    City, Arena: Nanjing, Gymnasium of Youth Olympic Games Sport Park
    Game day 1


    3 September 2019

    Montenegro - New Zealand
    16:00 GMT+08
    City, Arena: Nanjing, Gymnasium of Youth Olympic Games Sport Park
    Game day 2


    Brazil - Greece
    20:00 GMT+08
    City, Arena: Nanjing, Gymnasium of Youth Olympic Games Sport Park
    Game day 2


    5 September 2019

    Brazil - Montenegro
    16:00 GMT+08
    City, Arena: Nanjing, Gymnasium of Youth Olympic Games Sport Park
    Game day 3


    Greece - New Zealand
    20:00 GMT+08
    City, Arena: Nanjing, Gymnasium of Youth Olympic Games Sport Park
    Game day 3
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    How is Greece ranked 8th in the world? No good results in 10 years. FIBA rankings are ridiculous.

    New Zealand seems an obvious 4th here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christodoulou76 View Post
    How is Greece ranked 8th in the world? No good results in 10 years. FIBA rankings are ridiculous.

    New Zealand seems an obvious 4th here.

    The coefficients: Olympics brings the most points, then wc, then Eurobasket so on. If you play one good WC you are safe make to big leap for at least the next WC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christodoulou76 View Post
    How is Greece ranked 8th in the world? No good results in 10 years. FIBA rankings are ridiculous.

    New Zealand seems an obvious 4th here.
    Why don't you give your allegedly more serious ranking to make a comparison?

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    I think it is well established that FIBA Rankings do not correlate well to current strength of nations. They are a historical look back of results in major tournaments over the last 8 years, nothing more. It is only unfortunate that these rankings matter when creating draws or offering Wild Cards - other than that there is no reason to take them seriously.

    Unless you think Argentina is the 5th best team in the world right now. Or Mexico 14th. or Croatia 9th and on an on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    Why don't you give your allegedly more serious ranking to make a comparison?
    Eurobasket 2013 11th
    World Cup 2014 9th (no 9-16 classification games)
    Eurobasket 2015 5th (no 5/6 classification game)
    Olympics 2016 didn't qualify
    Eurobasket 2017 8th

    Yeah, this is the profile of the 8th best team in the world. Favored by automatic classification in 2014 and 2015 otherwise position in final standings would have been even worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    I think it is well established that FIBA Rankings do not correlate well to current strength of nations. They are a historical look back of results in major tournaments over the last 8 years, nothing more. It is only unfortunate that these rankings matter when creating draws or offering Wild Cards - other than that there is no reason to take them seriously.

    Unless you think Argentina is the 5th best team in the world right now. Or Mexico 14th. or Croatia 9th and on an on.
    All the latino american countries are overrated. If it is Venezuela, Argentina or even Brazil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    All the latino american countries are overrated. If it is Venezuela, Argentina or even Brazil
    All easily explained though. Ven is buoyed because of the olympics. Just going gives you plenty of points. Brazil has never missed a FWC and hosted the last Olympics. Argentina is largely the same. They are buoyed by constantly qualifying for the big events.
    Really unless they do worse than the previous version most teams get buoyed by consistently qualifying. The rankings reward consistently and to quote/paraphrase someone from earlier this week, "If you want to go up in the rankings, you need to win games". But I also don't know how else one would rank teams equally in a competition format that everyone would actually agree to. That's for a whole other thread though.

    More on topic, Brazil has to have the oldest team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christodoulou76 View Post
    Eurobasket 2013 11th
    World Cup 2014 9th (no 9-16 classification games)
    Eurobasket 2015 5th (no 5/6 classification game)
    Olympics 2016 didn't qualify
    Eurobasket 2017 8th

    Yeah, this is the profile of the 8th best team in the world. Favored by automatic classification in 2014 and 2015 otherwise position in final standings would have been even worse.
    Under the new qualification rankings Greece's good qualification record counts as well.

    Really though I'd say Greece 8th ranking reflects on the teams below them being even more inconsistent than Greece.

    As for this Group I have the Greeks going 3-0 with the other teams in a dog fight for the 2nd spot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    Really though I'd say Greece 8th ranking reflects on the teams below them being even more inconsistent than Greece.
    Good point. I stand corrected.

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    Every Team below the top 4 lacks of something. If it is bigs, bench, forwards or Guards. Argentina must play with a 40 year old Scola, Greece with Printezis and Bourousis, Turkey lacked always a decent Guard since Kerem Tunceri let alone the center. Italy has practically no center etc.

    The countries cant either raise some prospects or they cant polish them.

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    I believe New Zealand is a lock for the 4th spot, Greece is obviously first. Between MNE and BRA, I think we have a slight advantage, maybe something like 55-45%.
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    I would say that qualifying with only One loss helped Greece in the FIBA Ranking

    Nevertheless I find it hard to find more than 7 teams that are better than Greece at the moment

    USA
    Serbia

    For Spain, Canada, Australia, France, Lithuania someone could argue

    Where is the rest?

    Having Giannis helps alot but will not be enough if the others will not step up (Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolaou etc.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbostef View Post
    I would say that qualifying with only One loss helped Greece in the FIBA Ranking

    Nevertheless I find it hard to find more than 7 teams that are better than Greece at the moment

    USA
    Serbia

    For Spain, Canada, Australia, France, Lithuania someone could argue

    Where is the rest?

    Having Giannis helps alot but will not be enough if the others will not step up (Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolaou etc.)
    I would put Slovenia instead of Canada who hasn't won anything yet.

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    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/...iannis-return/

    Giannis Antetokounmpo scored a game-high 19 points and grabbed eight rebounds in 21:28 in his return to the Greek national team, leading his squad to an 83 – 59 rout over Hungary in the “Aegean International Tournament”.

    The “Greek Freak” shot 5/7 2-pointers, 0/1 3-pointers and 9/10 from the line after getting fouled eight times by his opponents. He received an ovation when Greece coach Thanasis Skourtopoulos substituted him in the final moments of the game.

    “It’s not just about the points he scores. He’s everywhere. Rebounds, defense, blocks. He can do everything,” Skourtopoulos said on Giannis to the Greek national television after the game.

    Zoltan Perl dropped 12 points for Hungary while Gyorgy Goloman had 10 points and five steals. Their team was overwhelmed 22 – 6 in the first quarter and trailed by a large margin for the remainder of the match.

    Greece captain Ioannis Bourousis added 10 points and five rebounds for Greece.

    Giannis Antetokounmpo’s brother, Kostas, made his debut, scoring two points and grabbing four rebounds in 11:14.
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    Wanted to ask Montenegro fans, what's happening with your NT? The last games have been a disaster, piling up losses against France (expected), Brazil, and even a Scola-less Argentina. I thought you had one of the best inside duos in the whole tournament with Dubjlevic & Vucevic, but it doesn't look like it's working so far. At least in the friendly games they haven't been able to dominate, even against teams without great size. So, what gives? Bad guards? Poor coaching? Bad chemistry? Or they are just slowly improving and will be all right once the tournament starts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
    Wanted to ask Montenegro fans, what's happening with your NT? The last games have been a disaster, piling up losses against France (expected), Brazil, and even a Scola-less Argentina. I thought you had one of the best inside duos in the whole tournament with Dubjlevic & Vucevic, but it doesn't look like it's working so far. At least in the friendly games they haven't been able to dominate, even against teams without great size. So, what gives? Bad guards? Poor coaching? Bad chemistry? Or they are just slowly improving and will be all right once the tournament starts?
    The main strength, or it's better to say the only true strength is the strong frontcourt. The guards are pretty bad and we know that (except Ivanovic, but he's extremely prone to injuries), so we don't expect too much from them. The game against France was the first prep game of our team. We played that game very well, and even led throughout most of the game. We had an 8-point lead after 3 quarters. In the end it wasn't enough, Batum stepped out, but we didn't expect a win there. So the impression from that game was OK, Vucevic had some difficulties against Gobert, but it's Ok, it was his first game since April.
    In the other two games, coach decided to play only with one of those guys (Vucevic played against ARG, and Dubljevic against BRA), so I think it was done on purpose by our coach to make our opponents underestimate us. I have no doubt that we will play with those two together for 30+ minutes when the tournament starts. The coach is good, the atmosphere in the team looks fine. I think there are no problems, but we will see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodrigue Beaubois View Post
    The main strength, or it's better to say the only true strength is the strong frontcourt. The guards are pretty bad and we know that (except Ivanovic, but he's extremely prone to injuries), so we don't expect too much from them. The game against France was the first prep game of our team. We played that game very well, and even led throughout most of the game. We had an 8-point lead after 3 quarters. In the end it wasn't enough, Batum stepped out, but we didn't expect a win there. So the impression from that game was OK, Vucevic had some difficulties against Gobert, but it's Ok, it was his first game since April.
    In the other two games, coach decided to play only with one of those guys (Vucevic played against ARG, and Dubljevic against BRA), so I think it was done on purpose by our coach to make our opponents underestimate us. I have no doubt that we will play with those two together for 30+ minutes when the tournament starts. The coach is good, the atmosphere in the team looks fine. I think there are no problems, but we will see.
    Thanks! I think New Zealand is playing very poorly, with losses against Japan and Canada. Likely the weakest team in this group, so it will boil down to the match against Brazil to get to the 2nd round. Or maybe surprise Greece, although it's quite unlikely, as no team can really afford to lose a game this year if they want to qualify for the QFs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
    Thanks! I think New Zealand is playing very poorly, with losses against Japan and Canada. Likely the weakest team in this group, so it will boil down to the match against Brazil to get to the 2nd round. Or maybe surprise Greece, although it's quite unlikely, as no team can really afford to lose a game this year if they want to qualify for the QFs.
    I am sure New Zealand will not go without a fight, but with all due respect to them, I think it will all come down to MNE-BRA game.
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    Greece played an exhıbıtıon game agaınst Montenegro ın 2017. It was the first exhibition game Greece played that year, and the only game where Giannis Antetokoumpo participated. I remember that the game went down to the wire. With this in mind Greece should play with intensity from the first second to win this game. Montenegro will be after a surprise victory. I am quite sure that they believe this and are betting on it. So interesting game to watch.
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