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Thread: Ąžuolas Tubelis thread

  1. #221
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Just as you named complete nonsense saying that Velicka is better than Jokubaitis and that Kariniauskas should be instead of Jokubaitis because there's no way 20yo should be in the team. You said it because you have no clue.
    No. I said that I didn't want a twenty year old player to be accorded the status of a "lock" and be given a free pass onto the team on the basis of having had a decent (though not outstanding) season with Žalgiris regardless of how much of a fan favourite either Jokubaitis or Žalgiris is on this board. I wanted Jokubaitis to prove that he belongs on the team by having to outcompete Vaidas Kariniauskas and Arnas Velička for a spot on the team. And I call that a sign of being a prudent man as opposed to "clueless" which is a term I'd reserve for unquestioning star struck fans.

    Moreover the issue here is how highly Sedekerskis' talents should be assessed. Referencing Jokubaitis is at best simply derailing the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Look, to me it's very hard to discuss with the guy who is judging about Sedekerskis' EL season by only stats and Kleiza's opinion and never seen him play there. This alone is crazy and if you don't understand it, you have a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    That's bottom line.
    No. The bottom line is that you have a problem with perspective. There's a vast chasm between the praise that you lavish upon your favourites, in this case Sedekerskis, and their on court performance. Sedekerskis showed little at this summer's camp and that's why he didn't make the team. To continue touting him just a few weeks later as some sort of future team linchpin defensively and overall is what's crazy. For one thing he's going to have to start showing a lot more than bit player numbers for Baskonia this year.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 08-22-2021 at 04:14 PM.

  2. #222
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    In Olympics Doncic was double teamed and Spain,France,Australia all teams used like 3 diffrent athletics guys on him on diffrent times like i suggested monthes befofe tournament .

    Doncic is basketball devil with kids smile,teams must have 3 diffrent good strong defenders to beat the shit out of his body for 40min with multiple players.

    No man alive can do anything alone with top 5 players like Doncic,Lebron,Giannis or Durant.It should be team defence with using mutiple bodies on them.
    One additional strategy to employ against Luka Dončić is to attack him when he's on defence. He's not in the greatest of shape so the idea is to tire him out as opposed to letting him rest on defence. Moreover he's no great shakes on defence anyway.


  3. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    even dinousour expert needed to 2 years but finally even he realised what Butkevicius brings and every teams needs such type players. All last 2 years he was crying Butkevicius cant brign nothing offensively and NT plays 4 vs 5 and in main game he was our best offensive player funny
    What do you mean dinosaur expert? You are conservative here

    I was the one who wanted Butkevicius in 2019 (he was OK, but scoreless in 2 key games). I was kinda sceptical about his chances in 2021 and preferred Ulanovas and Sedekerskis this summer generally as defensive players (Butkevicius exceeded expectations). Now in 2022 I wouldn't be against the idea to have all them 3, but generally I support the integration of new blood (now it's the best timing). If the choice is between say taking Butkevicius or some Velicka after a good season, I would take the latter cause this piece enforcing our weakest (guard) spots, specially long term.

    Maybe we could go smaller? Specially knowing that you can even throw Butkevicius/Ulanovas at 4 against small ball, let alone Sedekerskis who to me is more of 4 essentially today. What I've got from 2021 is that we don't need 3 centers at all. We barely can use JV and Sabonis together, to have another limited 7 footer is waste of spot, completely. JV was sitting out at the end of Slovenia game, that's the reality. I doubt we'll ever again see JV, Domas, Gudas center section. That's so yesterday, IMO.

    Jokubaitis, Lekavicius, Velicka
    Grigonis, Giedraitis, Butkevicius
    Brazdeikis, Ulanovas
    Sedekerskis, Kulboka
    Sabonis, Tubelis (or JV, Tubelis or, well, JV, Domas, or even mix Gudas in somewhere)

    Adding 2 important perimeter pieces (Velicka, Brazdeikis) and 3 important frontcourt pieces (Tadas, Kulboka, Tubelis) would be serious start of the Olympic circle. One should have in mind that Brazdeikis and Sedekerskis had to be in the team 2021 already, IMO. This team would be so much better defensively. Butkevicius, Ulanovas, Sedekerskis, Tubelis as good defensive players and Jokubaitis, Velicka as defensively competitive PGs with a good motor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  4. #224
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    SF posts almost in every post a roster

    Imo...

    Jokubaitis, Velicka....
    Grigonis
    Butkevicius...

    Dude, why do you feel compelled to do it every second post? Its so amusing. Do you copy paste it or do you write it every time down?

  5. #225
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    STF

    you are loving to writting here on basketball forum about dinosaur extinction so thats why im calling you that.Get used to it

    And no i dont wanna no fresh blood in men NT unless they gonna prove something on high club levels playing againts hiqh quality men.

    What mental strenght Butkevicius shown in 2021 he should be close to lock. In 2 tournaments he helped NT more than 2 euroleague players did Kuzminskas and Giedraitis.


    When i see that you cant decide which center take nba starting 5 player Valanciunas in his peak or ncaa kid you are loosing me here and cant discuss seriuosly with such dinousaur expert
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-23-2021 at 09:27 PM.

  6. #226
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    SF posts almost in every post a roster

    Imo...

    Jokubaitis, Velicka....
    Grigonis
    Butkevicius...

    Dude, why do you feel compelled to do it every second post? Its so amusing. Do you copy paste it or do you write it every time down?
    you get used to it dinosour expert is writting his lineups in half of his posts here and rebuilding our men NT with same name youngsters every 2 months

    at some point he gonna dig some 17 ltu kid and project he gonna make NT in 2 years

    stay tuned he also gonna give his projection how NT that cant make top 8 in fiba tournaments for 5 years is on a rise and will name 13 kids names that will make the diffrence in next 2 years .

    Problem no ltu NT coach seems to agree with him and he calls them as some old school coaches that has no clue about todays modern basketball after they take 1 of 7 offered youngsters to final men roster.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-23-2021 at 09:47 PM.

  7. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    STF

    you are loving to writting here on basketball forum about dinosaur extinction so thats why im calling you that.Get used to it
    You are well known for replying prior precise reading, distorted rephrasing and oxymoron, so no surprise here I'll treat it as your intrinsic dialogue, as this description fits you exactly. Pound the ball inside for one-dimensional 7 footer and incorporate Skučas to the NT. That's your plan for medals. That's not only dinosaur expertize, that's the whole another level of utopian imagination. Maniacal sticking with the idea that 1992 generation (why not to just take 10 players out of this generation to the NT, Redikas would be more than capable to make a hard foul and maybe demoralize Doncic prior the game with pickpocketing in the locker-rooms?) is destined to bring medals for the NT, makes you worthy member of an orthodox socialists and other outdated utopian circles as conservative "golden age" idea how we beat stronger teams playing archaic slow BB as glorious 2013-2015 stretch narrates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    And no i dont wanna no fresh blood in men NT unless they gonna prove something on high club levels playing againts hiqh quality men.
    No, off course, we're good as we are. No changes needed. Results are blossoming. Maybe just Skučas for elite elbows He's perfectly proven AGAINTS HIGH quality men...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    When i see that you cant decide which center take nba starting 5 player Valanciunas in his peak or ncaa kid you are loosing me here and cant discuss seriuosly with such dinousaur expert
    I gave you explicit answer on this. Do you seriously believe that I cut JV for Tubelis or you just pretend to be an idiot? (which judging from your massive never ending grammar mistakes and primitive replies may be actually true...). And nevertheless - you are saying that Tubelis shouldn't be in the NT? Oh, Skučas...

    Well, let me know when the golden age begins of 1992 generation. Guys turning 30 next tournament. I guess the mistake of the grand plan was to leave aside grinders as Skučas. That's what kept them away from podium?
    Last edited by Straight forward; 08-24-2021 at 11:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  8. #228
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Our resident dinosaur expert is still having wet dreams about our limited talent backcourt going completely "small" in the games against elite opponents and coming out victorious against them lol One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that our current perimeter players are simply not good enough to hang with elite guards from other countries, so our only chance is essentially to slow down the game to a crawl and beat up those more skilled faster squads with brutal strength and physicality...that's our only chance of achieving any kind of success currently. Any preposterous idea about abolishing out best players in favor of much inferior "contemporary" players (in SF's own words lol) is so ridiculous it's not even worth discussing to begin with. Any coach of any professional team knows it - you play to your strengths and you try to minimize your weaknesses. That's how every successful team always operates to begin with

  9. #229
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    Sometimes dreams do come true. However I believe A. Einstain once said that doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is insanity. I believe that still trying to beat top teams with JV is indeed borderline insane, thats why a suggeation appeared for JV to take a year off so we can see how we can cope without him.

  10. #230
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svajunas View Post
    Sometimes dreams do come true. However I believe A. Einstain once said that doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is insanity. I believe that still trying to beat top teams with JV is indeed borderline insane, thats why a suggeation appeared for JV to take a year off so we can see how we can cope without him.
    I always thought basketball teams had 5 players on the court at the same time, but when it comes to JV, it appears as if he's always playing 1 on 5 according to some members on this forum...or does it only appear this way when it suits someone's agenda?

  11. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    I always thought basketball teams had 5 players on the court at the same time, but when it comes to JV, it appears as if he's always playing 1 on 5 according to some members on this forum...or does it only appear this way when it suits someone's agenda?
    The thing is that JV is alpha today, and sometimes, probably even against coaches will in some possessions, he's always No.1 option mentally. The problem is that you can't win with JV as No.1 option and the leader. Nor NBA, nor FIBA, nor else where. NT mentality wise JV today is big time leader, but he can't bring wins. JV earned this position, but unfortunately it's contra-productive when it comes to winning or making your team playing possibly best BB. It's a bit ironic, but when average EL player in his prime - Mantas Kalnietis - was our alpha guy we had more chances to win than with JV. That's about current basketball figuration. JV is a great guy, and a good player as a role player in NBA, but as a leader in NT he's the guarantee of losses and making others (the team generally) worse. That has been the story. Till other guys won't step up as leaders, we're fucked, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  12. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    Our resident dinosaur expert is still having wet dreams about our limited talent backcourt going completely "small" in the games against elite opponents and coming out victorious against them lol One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that our current perimeter players are simply not good enough to hang with elite guards from other countries, so our only chance is essentially to slow down the game to a crawl and beat up those more skilled faster squads with brutal strength and physicality...that's our only chance of achieving any kind of success currently. Any preposterous idea about abolishing out best players in favor of much inferior "contemporary" players (in SF's own words lol) is so ridiculous it's not even worth discussing to begin with. Any coach of any professional team knows it - you play to your strengths and you try to minimize your weaknesses. That's how every successful team always operates to begin with

    No, that's your interpretation of my position, not my position.

    Well, those only chances blew in 2016, 2017, 2019, 2021. How long would you keep it up with the direction? Why that "brutal" strength didn't prevail against "small, soft, non defensive" Slovenia team?

    I never said I want medals now. It's unrealistic. We are not medal contenders ATM.

    What I do want, it's playing basketball, not anti- basketball. My thesis - let's slowly build towards contemporary trends of basketball, slowly adding talent. Let's have long term vision.

    I don't care about the medals as long as we play basketball and build fundamentals of correct BB culture. What I want is improvement (I feel like between 2019 and 2021 happened classical move, "one step forward, two steps back"). I will expect medals when we will clearly have elite team as we did in 1992-2008, not now.

    I believe that pounding the ball inside as the main accent of our current BB culture is not only directed to constant failure, but will also have long term negative consequences. We won't suddenly snap the fingers and play different BB. We grew into the outdated form of basketball within the decade - ever since 2013. We'll need time to get over it.

    Our worst stretch of modern BB requires new reflections. Maybe it's time to allow our coaches to fail, specially in the early stages of Olympic cycle. We should change our coaches mentality. Spain's and France's coaches working for decades, and no-one really takes them down if they see that in a long run it makes sense, brings correct culture and results. Adomaitis generally worked well and current federation blame him that he left, but it's on federation to communicate more than clearly that they want him to stay and to establish such relationships that the coach would talk with federation prior the decisions.

    If say Maksvytis fails badly in 2022. Should we cut him lose? No. If he has the vision how to make NT a winning NT in the long run, then he should continue to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  13. #233
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    The thing is that JV is alpha today, and sometimes, probably even against coaches will in some possessions, he's always No.1 option mentally. The problem is that you can't win with JV as No.1 option and the leader. Nor NBA, nor FIBA, nor else where. NT mentality wise JV today is big time leader, but he can't bring wins. JV earned this position, but unfortunately it's contra-productive when it comes to winning or making your team playing possibly best BB. It's a bit ironic, but when average EL player in his prime - Mantas Kalnietis - was our alpha guy we had more chances to win than with JV. That's about current basketball figuration. JV is a great guy, and a good player as a role player in NBA, but as a leader in NT he's the guarantee of losses and making others (the team generally) worse. That has been the story. Till other guys won't step up as leaders, we're fucked, IMO.
    my only response to your diatribe is this - you always find a way to put all of the blame on JV, despite him always producing on the court and being our best player in general. So I'm gonna ask you one more time regarding this matter and I won't bother discussing this anymore - is it JV that is the issue or our underperforming lacking backcourt? You're somehow always deflecting from discussing our putrid backcourt performances and put the blame on "pounding the ball inside to JV" lol...well, JV only plays half of the game to begin with and does his job exceptionally well, so why can't other players pick it up and do the same during the other 20 minutes?

  14. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    my only response to your diatribe is this - you always find a way to put all of the blame on JV, despite him always producing on the court and being our best player in general. So I'm gonna ask you one more time regarding this matter and I won't bother discussing this anymore - is it JV that is the issue or our underperforming lacking backcourt? You're somehow always deflecting from discussing our putrid backcourt performances and put the blame on "pounding the ball inside to JV" lol...well, JV only plays half of the game to begin with and does his job exceptionally well, so why can't other players pick it up and do the same during the other 20 minutes?
    You are always looking from personal perspectives (JV's big fan in particular). It's not to find the scapegoat, it's to discuss what's best for NT. JV is the main figure to which all NT identity is basically dedicated. Our guards are mediocre, but even they are better than they perform in the NT. It means that pounding the ball inside is comfortable only for JV generally. Why they can't provide when JV resting or, say, coaching ask aggression from them? I just explained you in the post that you quoted. JV is alpha and the leadership lays on him, the whole game architecture is set fro him. All this set up makes others only helpers. So JV himself is natural alpha, he wants to be the best and he is, the game plan is set basically to utilize him and Sabonis, and when JV hits the bench the identity remains the same, we don't have any logarithm to play competent perimeter, uptempo basketball. We didn't play so since 2010. You have to build entire culture and work on it. You can't say "Grigonis, give us buckets now". We should be learning how to play with pace, how to move the ball, how to stretch the floor with proper positioning, movement without the ball. We basically have been doing p'n'r and post up sets for a decade. If we prepare to pound the ball inside, eventually all what we know to do is to pound the ball. The fact that JV is out best player today in FIBA is a bad thing to have. If he would be third best player, and we would have leadership in some-one who makes others better, we would be in completely different situation. Now we build around traditional bruiser with whom no-one wins today as a leader.

    Mediocre guards are worse with JV as focal point

    Mediocre guards are better with JV as a role player

    (Kalnietis/Seibutis are not better than Grigonis/Giedraitis/Lekavicius, it's just that Kalnietis didn't give no fucks about JV and now everyone is looking at him as he's natural alpha now. Kalnietis rocked in NT, Grigonis can't bring his best, that's how mentality plays a big role)

    The problem is that current JV is our alpha guy. He won't just come and will say, "now the stage is yours". Most likely we will be playing pathetically outdated basketball for couple of more season, it was just Hollywood movie between LTU and SLO - "Ancient vs Modern".

    Off course, we lack better guards. But the thing is that with JV as a leader we don't even utilize our current talent optimally. Not medals, but exactly this is my issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  15. #235

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    A word on Tubelis at 1:04:08. One guy predicts 18-19ppg for him this year. It's interesting that they think Tubelis will be central piece of Arisona offensively because of new coach Tommy Lloyd instead of Mathurin. I agree that Mathurin is better NBA prospect, but still can't get why the distance is so huge between them. Mathurin is treated as a lottery guy while some even exclude Tubelis from second round as of yet. :

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000535485461

    And whenever it's Toruko's post or not, I pretty much agree with most parts of this stuff:

    https://fanspo.com/nba/s/nba_draft/p...zuolas-tubelis
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  16. #236
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    I had the chance to watch Tubelis in the U19 WC. Shortly said he has some value. Even though his shot is a question mark I trust his mechanics to make at least the open ones with percentage but its still remains as a question mark. I also acknowledge his transition game putting the ball on the floor, cover ground and pass. He is definitely switchable and can guard some positions as well as give a bit of rim protection but the question why he is still considered as late first or early second is his lack of creation.

    Some footwork is there but its not enough to create in NBA fields. He cant create with the ball in his hands neither from the post nor outside. He is the kind of guy who does everything a bit but nothing to perfection. He needs a weapon to be considered as a legit first rounder. Like this he is just a good player but not more.

  17. #237

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    Wildcats media day. Dude's interview giving skills slowly improving I like how the coach and he himself are set for high expectations. "I need to be more physical than last year. I know that I can"

    Now it's about how much he can dominate compared to last season. D. Sabonis jumped from 9,7/7,1 in rookie season to 17,6/11,8 sophomore. Tubelis has 12,2/7 as rookie. It depends a lot if he will be unleashed for freakin' 32min as Sabonis was. If he will, I wouldn't be surprised to see 20/10 in upcoming season.

    https://twitter.com/TheWildcaster/st...80062800146438
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  18. #238

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    I wonder if Domas would be close with that kind of attempt Kalnietis was able to dunk from the FT. But I would say it's more impressive when Tubelis with his mass does it.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CUjyPV3M...ource=ig_embed
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

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