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Thread: Fiba Asia Cup 2021 Qualifiers

  1. #13961
    Senior Member ja.he's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    To be precise the 21st century 2000 onwards lol

    Since the OQT was introduced in 2012, all Asian teams combined 6 in total and 12 games in total have zero nada wins , Nz has won games in all the OQTs they've participated.
    Asian teams in 21st century which means 2000s onwards zero agsin 2nd round, and werr talking about 20 different teams here ..as in zero nada. If your not happy with 20 years sige pick and period in recent years , 2019 and earlier , same result, nada wala ..
    NZ this 21st century has made the higher round for every single world cup 5, that it has participated, all of Asia zero ..
    How does not register is any common fan..outside of Asia , it's to glaring
    OQT started as early as 1960.

  2. #13962
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert0326 View Post
    Indonesia's pool for Clark bubble announced.. Familiar faces is included.. Also Prosper already w/ the team...

    https://www.antaranews.com/berita/21...mosi-degradasi
    Starting today seven players are now able to join their national team's practices after the conclusion of the IBL. We have a slight advantage when it comes to preparation.

  3. #13963
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoyg View Post
    Starting today seven players are now able to join their national team's practices after the conclusion of the IBL. We have a slight advantage when it comes to preparation.
    Although these are the same players who played from 1st window.. familiarity is already there... But w/o Jawato (Their best local player).. They will have a hard time beating us and Korea.. I will put them a +5 advantage over Thailand, since they still have Prosper down low...

  4. #13964
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    OQT started as early as 1960.
    Correct me if wrong didn't the wild card World OQT separate last qualification tournament start in 2012 ?
    Anyway regardless since we're talking about recent performance, not too long ago, for the 2012 and 2016 OQT, Asian teams (3 I think per year) have NoT won a game

    And for Nth time recent to last 20 years , No Asian team has made it past 1st round in 5 world cups.

    This indeed is the elephant in the room, it's glaring to the common fan worldwide.

    The exact opposite is the case for NZ , they in fact are one of only 5 nations to make the 2md round of every world cup this century. (5 times) with a winning %.
    And have won games in every OQT it has participated since 2012

    Again the common fan outside knows this , and it obviously influences who they consider as threat when their country faces NZ.. this is NoT my opinion but general opinion worldwide outside Asia. You can't blame them for having this opinion and thought
    Last edited by DAdmiral; 06-08-2021 at 02:19 AM.

  5. #13965
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    Correct me if wrong didn't the wild card World OQT separate last qualification tournament start in 2012 ?
    Anyway regardless since we're talking about recent performance, not too long ago, for the 2012 and 2016 OQT, Asian teams (3 I think per year) have NoT won a game
    yup,the separate windows/tournaments were instituted in 2012

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_W...ing_Tournament
    #GoUSTe, #AnimoLaSalle #PadayonUP

  6. #13966
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    Jordan bounce back and defeat Qatar in their 2nd tune up game.. The score is 69-57


    https://www.addustour.com/articles/1...B7%D8%B1%D9%8A

  7. #13967
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    Just based on results not opinion for all the teams in the current Asia Pacific region (includes Asia and Oceania)

    Limited to the most recent competition (so not to use old results)
    2017 to 2019 World cup qualifiers
    And the 2019 World cup.
    Nz has the 2nd best record next to Australia

    Get this , if NZ was an Asian team for qualification for this year's Olympics, via virtue of their World cup 2019 place would be the sole Asian qualifier (excluding host Japan) for the Olympics, not Iran.

    Again just cold results, I know this sounds demeaning being a Philippine thread.. that is why let's not use opinion but results. If despite the results we have a different opinion, tjen that's really up to everyone who's entitled to those opinions and I will not contradict or argue with those. Just stating results .. BTW no one is suggesting NZ is a guaranteed 2nd in the future

  8. #13968
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    Just based on results not opinion for all the teams in the current Asia Pacific region (includes Asia and Oceania)

    Limited to the most recent competition (so not to use old results)
    2017 to 2019 World cup qualifiers
    And the 2019 World cup.
    Nz has the 2nd best record next to Australia

    Get this , if NZ was an Asian team for qualification for this year's Olympics, via virtue of their World cup 2019 place would be the sole Asian qualifier (excluding host Japan) for the Olympics, not Iran.

    Again just cold results, I know this sounds demeaning being a Philippine thread.. that is why let's not use opinion but results. If despite the results we have a different opinion, tjen that's really up to everyone who's entitled to those opinions and I will not contradict or argue with those. Just stating results .. BTW no one is suggesting NZ is a guaranteed 2nd in the future
    Yes. And I've already written all the results of your beloved New Zealand Team. They're definitely not tier 1. I know it sounds demeaning to you as a Kiwi for being seen as the same league as high tier asian teams such as China, Iran, SK, and Japan. But facts do go against you. You are not the same level as Australia no matter how you spin it. A team that constantly gets close games against asian teams and even gets beat does not really sound like a dominating team as you blindly imagine your NZ to be. 2-1 against SK with no medal to show is a good case to be ranked as the same tier as them.

    So stop with the theatrics like you're the only one that sees the light. We get it, you're biased against New Zealand, and that's fine there's nothing wrong with that. But please stop with the BS like you're being straight objectively neutral.

    Again just cold results, I know this sounds demeaning being a Philippine thread..
    This one right here. You think we Filipinos are being overtly bias here? i don't ever recall here saying the Philippines are at these teams level. Especially now, in my opinion, the Philippine team is bottom tier 3 with these unproven, young cadets squad. While you're out here making a huge fuss spanning over several pages on how the NZ team is clearly head and shoulders above the tier 2 teams like China, SK, Iran, and Japan w/ Rui. My point is, your team is unproven vs asian teams unless you SHOW it by handily beating these tier 2 teams and getting a medal. Australia has done it(On their very first try with a Team C)... then why can't you since you oh so believe you're in the same level as them? Results speak for itself. Nothing but facts here.

    You might have missed my last post here so I'll share it to you again.

    I'll make my point very simple to you. Australia is Tier 1 and New Zealand is NOT. Australia can waltz in with a Team C lineup and win gold on the Asia Cup on its first try. NZL cannot and did not even medal at all. I do not consider WC competition as its mostly versus other World Teams. Case in point, South Korea almost always struggles in the world cup but is a madel contender in Asia. Your team is 2-1 against SK so far.

    Stop living in the past. The past 20 years doesn't matter. What we are talking about is your team in recent is only at the level of China, Iran, South Korea, and Japan. And the results and close games show it. Nobody is afraid of your team, New Zealand, unlike Australia. Your team is vulnerable to Tier 2 teams. I'll show you a few examples of games. The appaling results are glaring.

    New Zealand 80–86 South Korea
    South Korea 84–93 New Zealand
    Lebanon 67–69 New Zealand
    Lebanon 67–69 New Zealand
    Jordan 86–80 New Zealand

    Australia got blowouts after blowouts. Only losing to the Japan team with Rui and Iran.

    New Zealand doesn't appear to be head and shoulders above everybody. It seems like they are indeed Tier 2, around the level of China, SK, Iran, Japan. You need to wake up and admit to yourself that New Zealand is NOT at the same tier as Australia. If you keep having excuses of NZ not having all its players on the tournament then it's just the predicament of your team not being in the level of Australia where they won gold in 2017 with a basically Team C lineup. Need I also remind you the South Korean team that beat you for the Bronze medal was pre-Ricardo Ratcliffe.

    Final point. Tier 1 Australia is correct. They can win gold with any line up.

    Tier 2 are consistent medal contenders. New Zealand is a part of that group.

    There's no shame on being a Tier 2 team in Asia. You need to stop underestimating Asian teams and admit to yourself that your New Zealand is on the same level as the high-tier Asian teams. It must have been a rude awakening to you to find out will not just cakewalk itself to the medal rounds like what Australia did when Asia merged with Oceana.

  9. #13969
    Senior Member Jackie Reaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupitersa View Post
    Yes. And I've already written all the results of your beloved New Zealand Team. They're definitely not tier 1. I know it sounds demeaning to you as a Kiwi for being seen as the same league as high tier asian teams such as China, Iran, SK, and Japan. But facts do go against you. You are not the same level as Australia no matter how you spin it. A team that constantly gets close games against asian teams and even gets beat does not really sound like a dominating team as you blindly imagine your NZ to be. 2-1 against SK with no medal to show is a good case to be ranked as the same tier as them.

    So stop with the theatrics like you're the only one that sees the light. We get it, you're biased against New Zealand, and that's fine there's nothing wrong with that. But please stop with the BS like you're being straight objectively neutral.


    This one right here. You think we Filipinos are being overtly bias here? i don't ever recall here saying the Philippines are at these teams level. Especially now, in my opinion, the Philippine team is bottom tier 3 with these unproven, young cadets squad. While you're out here making a huge fuss spanning over several pages on how the NZ team is clearly head and shoulders above the tier 2 teams like China, SK, Iran, and Japan w/ Rui. My point is, your team is unproven vs asian teams unless you SHOW it by handily beating these tier 2 teams and getting a medal. Australia has done it(On their very first try with a Team C)... then why can't you since you oh so believe you're in the same level as them? Results speak for itself. Nothing but facts here.

    You might have missed my last post here so I'll share it to you again.
    Well, New Zealand is 1-3 in their head-to-head record with South Korea. The reason why Korea lost in their 4th battle was the inclusion of Ra Guna which initially disrupted the cohesion of that Korean team. If they play for their 5th battle, my bet is a close game - a 50/50 game.

  10. #13970
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoyg View Post
    Starting today seven players are now able to join their national team's practices after the conclusion of the IBL. We have a slight advantage when it comes to preparation.

    Quote Originally Posted by robert0326 View Post
    Although these are the same players who played from 1st window.. familiarity is already there... But w/o Jawato (Their best local player).. They will have a hard time beating us and Korea.. I will put them a +5 advantage over Thailand, since they still have Prosper down low...
    Agree on this bolded parts.

    Jawato's absence is significant. I think Jawato's value in the team is roughly the same as that of Prosper in my opinion.

    We play Korea on June 16, Indonesia plays Korea on the 17th. Then we play Indonesia on the 18th. If Indonesia upsets Korea, then our match vs. Indonesia on the 18th would be a must win game. But regardless of Indonesia beating Korea or not, still we'll go all out vs. Indonesia. Its a matter of pride.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  11. #13971
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupitersa View Post
    Yes. And I've already written all the results of your beloved New Zealand Team. They're definitely not tier 1. I know it sounds demeaning to you as a Kiwi for being seen as the same league as high tier asian teams such as China, Iran, SK, and Japan. But facts do go against you. You are not the same level as Australia no matter how you spin it. A team that constantly gets close games against asian teams and even gets beat does not really sound like a dominating team as you blindly imagine your NZ to be. 2-1 against SK with no medal to show is a good case to be ranked as the same tier as them.

    So stop with the theatrics like you're the only one that sees the light. We get it, you're biased against New Zealand, and that's fine there's nothing wrong with that. But please stop with the BS like you're being straight objectively neutral. If you don't agree with this , you're just arguing against common majority opinion.. blame them , bark at them.. ( i don't see how you can blame the common fan, the results. are glaring) , make a compaign against common thought then... i didn't invent this thought or created it , the results created it.


    This one right here. You think we Filipinos are being overtly bias here? i don't ever recall here saying the Philippines are at these teams level. Especially now, in my opinion, the Philippine team is bottom tier 3 with these unproven, young cadets squad. While you're out here making a huge fuss spanning over several pages on how the NZ team is clearly head and shoulders above the tier 2 teams like China, SK, Iran, and Japan w/ Rui. My point is, your team is unproven vs asian teams unless you SHOW it by handily beating these tier 2 teams and getting a medal. Australia has done it(On their very first try with a Team C)... then why can't you since you oh so believe you're in the same level as them? Results speak for itself. Nothing but facts here.

    You might have missed my last post here so I'll share it to you again.
    If you looked at all my post i never mentioned tiers and that NZ is of the same tier of Australia ( never) , you just put those words in my mouth
    all i said which isn't even arguable , which you refuse to accept or address is this.

    Ask anyone outside of Asia, the common fan see's all of Asia ( no one singled out the Philippines only) as an easier game , more winnable in world competition ( Olympics, OQT , WC) compared to NZ, the % of beating Asian teams compared to NZ is vastly different . 50 % for NZ, and vs Asian it's 95 % for world teams beating Asians, for any period you choose, if you want to add losing margin it's lopsided.
    how in the world can this be ignored, again it's not my opinion. just ask anyone outside of Asia , this is well recognized and accepted, thought . no argument

    BTW common opinon agrees with u and me that NZ and Australia are not of the same tier, no one ever suggested this.

    but that same common opinion universally sees all the Asian teams as weaker opponents at world competition compared to NZ, this is well accepted documented already


    i really don't care if thatt mean that they are still in the same tier as Asians teams, which i never argued anyway as you're suggesting.
    my stance is sticking limited only to what is well documented by results and accepted thought already , NZ is a stroiger world level competition team than all of "real asia " teams, this is not even debatable but common thought already. Of course this is based on recent history or a longer period decade or 20 years. No one is suggesting this will remain forever or is even the same thought for the next world cup. things can change of course. but to say it is not true for now and recent thought is simply incorrect
    Last edited by DAdmiral; 06-08-2021 at 07:09 AM.

  12. #13972
    Senior Member DAdmiral's Avatar
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    to not sound bias, let's not use New zealand as comparrison , but with a team as relatrively as succesful in world competion as NZ, let's choose Puerto Rico and Dominican republic ( para does not sound bias)

    the rest of the world indeed sees both puerto Rico and Dominican republic as a more competitive team in world competition , than any "real Asian team" the results speak for itself.. it is what it it is.. Mahina talaga Asian teams in world competitiion based on actual performance ( not on paper maybe)
    note this not referring to accomplishment , obviously the top dog in Asia will have more medal accomplishments than a small dog in the Americas continent. no one is arguing with that . that a silly comparrison. the top Asian team ( Iran etc) are basically a big fish in a small pond. that is not the metric at all. being discussed here or at least what i am mentioning. .

    so as not to offend , sige i''ll use Puerto Rico na lang ...to illustrate the point that the rest of the world does not see any Asian team as competitive in world competition as PR. (A team similar to NZ in results for world competition). This is the common assessment of the average world hoop fan
    Last edited by DAdmiral; 06-08-2021 at 08:59 AM.

  13. #13973
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    If you looked at all my post i never mentioned tiers and that NZ is of the same tier of Australia ( never) , you just put those words in my mouth
    all i said which isn't even arguable , which you refuse to accept or address is this.
    Past post:
    Current Asia qualifiers, NZ vs Australia have split their games. With Nz loss using players limited to those residents in Aus due to covid

    Again not saying that Nz is equal to Australia, but based on purely results FIBA last decade they are actually in the same tier
    .
    Your post history says otherwise, Analyzed. Why are you not telling the truth?

    Ask anyone outside of Asia, the common fan see's all of Asia ( no one singled out the Philippines only) as an easier game , more winnable in world competition ( Olympics, OQT , WC) compared to NZ, the % of beating Asian teams compared to NZ is vastly different . 50 % for NZ, and vs Asian it's 95 % for world teams beating Asians, for any period you choose, if you want to add losing margin it's lopsided.
    how in the world can this be ignored, again it's not my opinion. just ask anyone outside of Asia , this is well recognized and accepted, thought . no argument
    It doesn't matter what outside of Asia thinks. New Zealand has a history of great World Cup success and I agree! But that's not really what we're discussing here. We're discussing the PRESENT. Aren't we looking for facts as you said? Then why are you looking for opinions of a common fan outside of asia who most likely doesn't even know Asian teams as well? It makes no sense. Please stop moving the goal post.

    i really don't care if thatt mean that they are still in the same tier as Asians teams, which i never argued anyway as you're suggesting.
    Past post:
    Now I gather the reason NZ is grouped with Korea , China in tier 2 is cause of Asian fiba results, which is fair enough. But here is the thing if we based it consistently similar to how we ranked Australia ahead of NZ , recognizing the difference in player level accomplishments and World and Olympic performance. (And not FIBA Asia competition), NZ is quite clearly a tier above Asian teams. Again this is based on latter criteria not opinion.. which was used in separating Aus a tier ahead of the rest.


    You do care. That's why you argued against it. I keep repeating the same point over and over again. It's that simple really. Since the merging of Asia and Oceana, I have not seen New Zealand dominate. If your New Zealand team keeps getting beaten by South Korea. Constantly gets into close games with strong Asian teams, and did not even medal in the Asian tournament. Then I fail to see why they are clearly a tier above Asian teams. I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Those results vs Asian teams are facts. New Zealand has a hard time battling against strong Asian teams. I keep telling you they are at the level of the strongest Asian teams but I guess that's not enough for you as think so lowly of this region.

    You also argued the results of New Zealand being the 2nd in Asia Qualifiers as one of your points. Sure. Lets take a look at the context.

    Australia = 10-2
    New Zealand = 10-2
    South Korea = 10-2
    Japan = 8-4
    Iran = 8-4
    Jordan 7-5

    3 teams are tied with Australia included. That doesn't mean those 2 other teams are at the same level as Australia. New Zealand and South Korea are both 10-2 with the former breaking the tie-breaker via quotient. Both teams are 1-1 against each other. That doesn't seem like NZ is "clearly above Asian teams" from the looks of it. Japan was 0-4 and then went undefeated after getting Rui and Fazekas. Although Rui only played half of the 8 games. Iran barely fielded Haddadi and Bahrami. No excuses tho that is their choice. But all in all, seeing these results. No. I don't see yet again why New Zealand is clearly above all asian teams.

  14. #13974
    Senior Member hmbopbaduwap's Avatar
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    https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fiba/...210608-fbfirst

    The number of delegations flying to the country was reduced after the Group C clash between Guam and Hong Kong was moved to the Amman bubble in Jordan. Both holding 0-1 slates, the two nations will face each other off on June 13 and June 15.

    Delegates for the Clark bubble are expected to arrive by Sunday.

    Only the top two teams from each of the six groups will earn a ticket to the 2021 Fiba Asia Cup in Indonesia come August.

    Aside from host Indonesia, a final phase between the third-place teams will be held before the continental tilt to complete the 16-nation cast.

    Here's the full schedule of the games at Angeles University Foundation Gym:

    June 16 (Wednesday)
    4:30 p.m. - Japan vs China
    6:00 p.m. - Korea vs Philippines

    June 17 (Thursday)
    4:30 p.m. - Korea vs Indonesia
    6:00 p.m. - Chinese Taipei vs China

    June 18 (Friday)
    4:30 p.m. - Japan vs Chinese Taipei
    6:00 p.m. - Philippines vs Indonesia

    June 19 (Saturday)
    4:30 p.m. - China vs Japan
    6:00 p.m. - Thailand vs Korea

    June 20 (Sunday)
    11:30 a.m. - Indonesia vs Thailand
    3:00 p.m. - Philippines vs Korea
    6:30 p.m. - China vs Chinese Taipei

  15. #13975
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    It's really Gilas season na, I'm getting cloudflare errors

  16. #13976
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    That June 16 (Wednesday) Double-Header is MUST-SEE TV. (or streaming for some of us)

    4:30 p.m. - Japan vs China
    6:00 p.m. - Korea vs Philippines

    When was the last time these 4 played at the same venue, at the same date?

  17. #13977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotch View Post
    That June 16 (Wednesday) Double-Header is MUST-SEE TV. (or streaming for some of us)

    4:30 p.m. - Japan vs China
    6:00 p.m. - Korea vs Philippines

    When was the last time these 4 played at the same venue, at the same date?
    Syempre last 2013 FIBA Asia when we host that event...

  18. #13978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotch View Post
    That June 16 (Wednesday) Double-Header is MUST-SEE TV. (or streaming for some of us)

    4:30 p.m. - Japan vs China
    6:00 p.m. - Korea vs Philippines

    When was the last time these 4 played at the same venue, at the same date?
    Syempre last 2013 FIBA Asia when we host that event...

  19. #13979
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    Meanwhile in Indonesia, There will be a chance that the upcoming FIBA Asia cup in August could have some fans there...

    https://www.antaranews.com/berita/21...adiri-penonton

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Agree on this bolded parts.

    Jawato's absence is significant. I think Jawato's value in the team is roughly the same as that of Prosper in my opinion.

    We play Korea on June 16, Indonesia plays Korea on the 17th. Then we play Indonesia on the 18th. If Indonesia upsets Korea, then our match vs. Indonesia on the 18th would be a must win game. But regardless of Indonesia beating Korea or not, still we'll go all out vs. Indonesia. Its a matter of pride.
    I don't know if Indonesia can upset Korea (very slim chance only) although i think Prosper can outduel Ratliffe in their head to head battle.. Especially the latter is not 100% healthy due to his injury that he get in KBL..

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