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Thread: Fiba Asia Cup 2021 Qualifiers

  1. #13841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labradoodle View Post
    I think Thailand made the wrong decision to send Chris Daleo home. If they stuck with him throughout the pandemic, they might have had the chance to beat Indonesia in the second window. After all, Indonesia led only by 14 pts even with Prosper and Jawato playing together. Maybe, they would even beat an inexperienced Gilas.
    Well, Pandemic happened, even us, If not this pandemic happened, It would we have a better opportunities to train outside PHL...

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    Quote Originally Posted by anon9000 View Post
    Korea is nearly a medalist in every FIBA or Asian games. Props to the NT for being competitive against them. They are the Spurs of Asia based on military background, discipline, ball movement, and a group oriented play.

    FIBA Asia rankings

    Tier 1: Australia

    Tier 2: (No order and match up-style based ala rock paper scissors )

    Korea
    New Zealand
    China
    Iran

    **Japan (Due to talent but can also be a rank lower) **


    Tier 3: ( Top heavy teams, Inconsistent preparations, recruitment based, and faulty programs in short a year to year basis also match up based)


    Philippines
    Jordan
    Lebanon
    Qatar
    Iraq
    Syria

    While Australia is obviously ranked higher than NZ

    Just to put context in the actual results between the 2. In the last decade WC and since joining Asia in 2017.

    2010 WC , Australia 10th , NZ 12th , Same win loss record
    2014 WC , Nz made 2nd round, Australia did not.
    2019 WC Australia-semis and NZ 19th of 32


    2017 Asia cup , Australia 1st, NZ , 4th

    WC qualifiers 2018 to 2019 , both 1st in groups, both NZ and Australia loss games to Asian teams (Aus to Japan ) and Nz to Korea

    Current Asia qualifiers, NZ vs Australia have split their games. With Nz loss using players limited to those residents in Aus due to covid

    Again not saying that Nz is equal to Australia, but based on purely results FIBA last decade they are actually in the same tier .
    Now I gather the reason NZ is grouped with Korea , China in tier 2 is cause of Asian fiba results, which is fair enough. But here is the thing if we based it consistently similar to how we ranked Australia ahead of NZ , recognizing the difference in player level accomplishments and World and Olympic performance. (And not FIBA Asia competition), NZ is quite clearly a tier above Asian teams. Again this is based on latter criteria not opinion.. which was used in separating Aus a tier ahead of the rest.

  3. #13843
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert0326 View Post
    Well, Pandemic happened, even us, If not this pandemic happened, It would we have a better opportunities to train outside PHL...
    Well, I'm talking about Thailand's chances. I think Daleo would have been able to utilize the Thai players better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Upon joining the camp, Tamayo quickly realized how lucky he was to be a part of it. Basketball players outside the bubble had to settle for individual or small group training while Gilas Pilipinas Men got to practice and scrimmage as a full squad. The biggest advantage in joining this training camp is for Tamayo to feel what it's like as a small forward. While he's had to be a center or a power forward all his life because of his size, he knows learning how to play at the three-spot could really set him apart.

    "Here, I play as a three and sometimes a four. I'm learning how to execute as a small forward, how to read the court, I also get to practice my decision-making. I realized it was a really good decision because I get to learn how to play international basketball under coach Tab (Baldwin)," he shared.

    https://www.google.com.ph/amp/s/tv5....3fplatform=amp
    Hope the "greens" realize what they missed by preventing Quiambao from joining the Gilas pool. The thing is, it is still very much uncertain whether UAAP basketball will push thru this year or not. If the idea of the greens in not allowing Quiambao to join Gilas is to preserve him for the UAAP basketball this season, then what is there to preserve for when its not even certain if UAAP basketball will push thru this year or not?
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  5. #13845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labradoodle View Post
    Well, I'm talking about Thailand's chances. I think Daleo would have been able to utilize the Thai players better.
    This 3rd window will be their last time to prepare for their build up in SEAG because after this, especially if they will out eh they will wait until December to have a games again.. Coach Daleo thinks they don't have a chance right now.. At saka malakas talaga kasi yung East region.. from Australia, NZL, China, Korea, PHL and Japan eh powerhouse na yan.. And there is Guam and Taipei.. These last two i think both deserve to play outright in FIBA Asia cup but FIBA Asia decides to seperate qualifiers of East and West Asian teams...

  6. #13846
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    Thailand lost their chances in the second window. They really had the chance to win against Indonesia and Taiwan is a shadow of its former self.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    While Australia is obviously ranked higher than NZ

    Just to put context in the actual results between the 2. In the last decade WC and since joining Asia in 2017.

    2010 WC , Australia 10th , NZ 12th , Same win loss record
    2014 WC , Nz made 2nd round, Australia did not.
    2019 WC Australia-semis and NZ 19th of 32


    2017 Asia cup , Australia 1st, NZ , 4th

    WC qualifiers 2018 to 2019 , both 1st in groups, both NZ and Australia loss games to Asian teams (Aus to Japan ) and Nz to Korea

    Current Asia qualifiers, NZ vs Australia have split their games. With Nz loss using players limited to those residents in Aus due to covid

    Again not saying that Nz is equal to Australia, but based on purely results FIBA last decade they are actually in the same tier .
    Now I gather the reason NZ is grouped with Korea , China in tier 2 is cause of Asian fiba results, which is fair enough. But here is the thing if we based it consistently similar to how we ranked Australia ahead of NZ , recognizing the difference in player level accomplishments and World and Olympic performance. (And not FIBA Asia competition), NZ is quite clearly a tier above Asian teams. Again this is based on latter criteria not opinion.. which was used in separating Aus a tier ahead of the rest.
    No. While I understand you're a big fan of NZ... No. They're still Tier 2 until proven otherwise in Asian Competition.

    Now I gather the reason NZ is grouped with Korea , China in tier 2 is cause of Asian fiba results, which is fair enough.
    You are correct.

  8. #13848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labradoodle View Post
    Thailand lost their chances in the second window. They really had the chance to win against Indonesia and Taiwan is a shadow of its former self.
    I think a complete Thailand team with Tyler Lamb & Justin Bassey is very much capable of beating a Taiwan team without a naturalized player.

    And if Thailand could not beat a Taiwan team without a NP, eh paano nalang ang Thailand basketball?
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  9. #13849
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    Here's my stand: Thailand, with Lamb & Justin Bassey, and Indonesia with Lester Prosper & Jawato must be capable of beating lower tier Asian teams like Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, India, UAE.

    If not, what does it speak of Thailand & Indonesian basketball after all these years or even decades? I mean, 2 or 3 decades ago, Thailand & Indonesia basketball have never showed it can beat those countries. After all their improvements in recent years dapat such improvements should translate to gaining some respect & getting notice in Asian basketball.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  10. #13850
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Here's my stand: Thailand, with Lamb & Justin Bassey, and Indonesia with Lester Prosper & Jawato must be capable of beating lower tier Asian teams like Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, India, UAE.

    If not, what does it speak of Thailand & Indonesian basketball after all these years or even decades? I mean, 2 or 3 decades ago, Thailand & Indonesia basketball have never showed it can beat those countries. After all their improvements in recent years dapat such improvements should translate to gaining some respect & getting notice in Asian basketball.
    What happened to marques Bolden of Indonesia? Is his naturalization will materialized? He will upgrade Indonesia to be atleast top 12 team or chances to be in top 8 is possible...

  11. #13851
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    While Australia is obviously ranked higher than NZ

    Just to put context in the actual results between the 2. In the last decade WC and since joining Asia in 2017.

    2010 WC , Australia 10th , NZ 12th , Same win loss record
    2014 WC , Nz made 2nd round, Australia did not.
    2019 WC Australia-semis and NZ 19th of 32


    2017 Asia cup , Australia 1st, NZ , 4th

    WC qualifiers 2018 to 2019 , both 1st in groups, both NZ and Australia loss games to Asian teams (Aus to Japan ) and Nz to Korea

    Current Asia qualifiers, NZ vs Australia have split their games. With Nz loss using players limited to those residents in Aus due to covid

    Again not saying that Nz is equal to Australia, but based on purely results FIBA last decade they are actually in the same tier .
    Now I gather the reason NZ is grouped with Korea , China in tier 2 is cause of Asian fiba results, which is fair enough. But here is the thing if we based it consistently similar to how we ranked Australia ahead of NZ , recognizing the difference in player level accomplishments and World and Olympic performance. (And not FIBA Asia competition), NZ is quite clearly a tier above Asian teams. Again this is based on latter criteria not opinion.. which was used in separating Aus a tier ahead of the rest.
    Current FIBA Asia rankings

    Tier 1 = Guaranteed Gold Medal

    Tier 2 = Medalists or top 5 finish

    Tier 3= Competitive teams and top 10 finish

    -For FIBA world rankings without a doubt the Oceania teams are ranked into another tier but this is the rankings from the past tourneys after the Asia and Oceania merger. Tier 2 is difficult as none of these countries are guaranteed to really be a silver medalist much less end up in a podium. Its the toughest tier to separate from.

    NZ is a good team but how they finish is based on who they are matched with.
    Last edited by anon9000; 06-05-2021 at 01:06 PM.

  12. #13852
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    Japan Beating Australia(Team C)

    And Korea Beating NZ

    shows that Oceania teams, while heavy favourites, are still beatable.

    In World Rankings, I feel teams Like Spain and France, and maybe Argentina are slightly ahead of Australia. (As a Team, not as indivudual players)

  13. #13853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupitersa View Post
    No. While I understand you're a big fan of NZ... No. They're still Tier 2 until proven otherwise in Asian Competition.



    You are correct.
    Ok just stick to factual results
    Nz
    in the last decade in the
    WC
    WC window qualifiers
    And OQT
    is the 2nd best performing team in Asia Pacific

    Obviously as oceania only has 1 slot for the Olympics, nz can't be 2nd best results in Olympics

    Not opinion just factual results

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    Ok just stick to factual results
    Nz
    in the last decade in the
    WC
    WC window qualifiers
    And OQT
    is the 2nd best performing team in Asia Pacific

    Obviously as oceania only has 1 slot for the Olympics, nz can't be 2nd best results in Olympics

    Not opinion just factual results
    by
    It's a good thing we're not discussing the past then but the present. The context here is versus asian competition. The fact of the matter is NZ has a hard time with Tier 2 South Korea and even gets beat by Tier 3 Jordan while Australia can parade even a Team C lineup and blows out the competition, something the NZ cannot do. So we all agree that Aus is at the tier of it's own, correct? Now then, if NZ still gets beat by teams at the same tier then why do you conclude that NZ is clearly a tier above China, Iran, Korea, and let's say Full-force Japan? I don't see facts there.

    Iran almost always handily beats Korea whenever they meet, but still, we think both teams are on the same tier. As of right now, I don't see NZ being a tier above every asian team like you're implying when they're still vulnerable against fellow Tier 2 teams. NZ did not even medal last 2017 Asia Cup as Korea beat them. Maybe they'll prove themselves this coming Asia Cup who knows? They still need to prove themselves versus Asian Competitions.

    Just facts.

    EDIT: I fail to see the reason why you think is some kind of a insult or a downgrade to your NZ team. Being seen as equal to Iran, China, SK, and maybe even Japan is a great honor already. Don't think lowly of Asian teams too much. Just an advice.
    Last edited by Jupitersa; 06-05-2021 at 03:08 PM.

  16. #13856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupitersa View Post
    by
    It's a good thing we're not discussing the past then but the present. The context here is versus asian competition. The fact of the matter is has a hard time with Tier 2 South Korea and even gets beat by Tier 3 Jordan while Australia can parade even a Team C lineup and blows out the competition, something the NZ cannot do. So we all agree that Aus is at the tier of it's own, correct? Now then, if NZ still gets beat by teams at the same tier then why do you conclude that NZ is clearly a tier above China, Iran, Korea, and let's say Full-force Japan? I don't see facts there.

    Iran almost always handily beats Korea whenever they meet, but still, we think both teams are on the same tier. As of right now, I don't see NZ being a tier above every asian team like you're implying when they're still vulnerable against fellow Tier 2 teams. NZ did not even medal last 2017 Asia Cup as Korea beat them. Maybe they'll prove themselves this coming Asia Cup who knows? They still need to prove themselves versus Asian Competitions.

    Just facts.

    EDIT: I fail to see the reason why you think is some kind of a insult or a downgrade to your NZ team. Being seen as equal to Iran, China, SK, and maybe even Japan is a great honor already. Don't think lowly of Asian teams too much. Just an advice.
    Agree with you. I say a full force New Zealand team doesn't enjoy significant edge over China, South Korea, Japan, etc.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  17. #13857
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbopbaduwap View Post
    C Jonathan Galloway 6'11
    F Curtis Washington 6'10
    C Mekeli Wesley 6'9
    F Jonathan Fegurgur 6'9
    C Ben Borja 6'8
    F Tai Wesley 6'7
    F Mark Johnson 6'6
    F Earnest Ross 6'6
    G Daren Hechanova 6'3
    G Mike Quan 6'2
    G Takumi Simon 6'2
    G Will Stinnett 6'2
    G Joe Blas 6'2
    G Chris Conner 6'2
    G Jericho Cruz 6'1
    G Tomas Calvo 5'10

  18. #13858
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Agree with you. I say a full force New Zealand team doesn't enjoy significant edge over China, South Korea, Japan, etc.
    Hint: a Tall Blacks with its nucleus from 2016 OQT and 2019 World Cup struggled to beat Lebanon twice.

  19. #13859
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Here's my stand: Thailand, with Lamb & Justin Bassey, and Indonesia with Lester Prosper & Jawato must be capable of beating lower tier Asian teams like Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, India, UAE.

    If not, what does it speak of Thailand & Indonesian basketball after all these years or even decades? I mean, 2 or 3 decades ago, Thailand & Indonesia basketball have never showed it can beat those countries. After all their improvements in recent years dapat such improvements should translate to gaining some respect & getting notice in Asian basketball.
    A Thailand with Lamb and Bassey will definitely beat Indonesia with Jawato and Prosper. Thailand didn't get badly beaten by a doubly reinforced Indonesia in the second window. A 14- point lead with 2 "reinforcements" isn't a stellar performance from Indonesia

    With a better coach, Thailand could possibly win that match.

    As for Taiwan, they are a shadow of their former selves and with a good coach, Thailand - even without Lamb - stands a chance for an upset

  20. #13860
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Here's my stand: Thailand, with Lamb & Justin Bassey, and Indonesia with Lester Prosper & Jawato must be capable of beating lower tier Asian teams like Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, India, UAE.

    If not, what does it speak of Thailand & Indonesian basketball after all these years or even decades? I mean, 2 or 3 decades ago, Thailand & Indonesia basketball have never showed it can beat those countries. After all their improvements in recent years dapat such improvements should translate to gaining some respect & getting notice in Asian basketball.
    justin bassey doesn’t play basketball anymore. he’s working in corporate world..

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