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Thread: Greek league Rules handicap Greek Teams

  1. #1
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Default Greek league Rules handicap Greek Teams

    I noticed that all 4 of the clubs that made the F4 were consisted of 1-2 local players.

    CSKA: Kurbanov and Vorontsetich (who did not play at all)

    Fener: Melih, Duverioglou (let's not mention the other that were in the squad only because of injuries to other players)

    Real: Rudi, Llul and Reyes (no time or trash time)

    Efes: Balbay (trash time).


    Greek teams are forced to have a minimum of 6 players in their squad for the Greek League. I'm sure PAO could find good Americans for the $300K Thanasis earns, or Pappas 750K and Papagiannis' 600K. We're forced to pay massive overs to abide by the rules.

    Things are more difficult for the team if you are forced to have let's say another 2-3 Americans in the EL because 1) cost 2) team cohesion.

    These rules were OK 10 years ago with Greece having many talented players but the pool is very shallow these days for EL standard players.

    PAO should look to have this changed to drop from 6 Greek nationals to at least 5.

    With Oly dropping to A2 (if the government doesn't intervene) then they will take full advantage running a team in A2 comprised to talented and A2 experienced players with a budget no bigger than 250-300K. For the EL they will probably end up fielding a minimum of 9 Greeks at the EL has absolutely no restrictions. The no restrictions doesn't allow the true face of a countries basketball value to shine.

    It would be interesting to see how well clubs would perform if there was a rule on maximum imports as it was under FIBA rules once upon a time.

    These days if you have the money you can field 12 Americans if you like. I think that is rubbish and only helps clubs with the most money.

    Other teams:

    Armani: Don't use Italians.
    Barca: 3 Spanish players
    Bayern: 2 Germans
    Baskonia: 0 Spaniards
    Khimki: 3 Russians
    Maccabi: 2 Israelis

    The only teams with plenty of locals are Zalgiris (5), and Daru, Canaria and Buducnost who finished bottom.
    Last edited by EverGreen; 05-21-2019 at 07:04 AM.
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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    I’m not sure what you want to say. In Spain you can have only 2 non European players and you need 4 ‘cupos’, who played 3 years in Spain as juniors.
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    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I’m not sure what you want to say. In Spain you can have only 2 non European players and you need 4 ‘cupos’, who played 3 years in Spain as juniors.
    How many are the eligible for Spanish NT? In Greece you must have 6 players in 12 eligible for the Greek NT.
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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    How many are the eligible for Spanish NT? In Greece you must have 6 players in 12 eligible for the Greek NT.
    I believe none, but they’re home product. Luka was MVP last year, played from his 13th birthday in Real and played for Slovenia. But you were saying how Pao could/should have many cheap Americans, Real can have even less Americans than Pao.
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    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I believe none, but they’re home product. Luka was MVP last year, played from his 13th birthday in Real and played for Slovenia. But you were saying how Pao could/should have many cheap Americans, Real can have even less Americans than Pao.
    OK, Americans, Europeans, etc doesn't make a difference. I'm telling you RM and others play with only 2-3 NT eligible players.
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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    OK, Americans, Europeans, etc doesn't make a difference. I'm telling you RM and others play with only 2-3 NT eligible players.
    Real had Llull, Rudy, Reyes, Yusta and unfortunately for them, they’re too good in developing players, because they could have Luka and Mirotic too.
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    Senior Member drskull's Avatar
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    Hido plans to implement a new foreign rule for the sake of "NT"... (gotta add that he already decreased the number from 6 foreigners to 5 last year)

    also Turkish foreign rule is not about being NT eligible, if you are a citizen you are good to go. for example Ahmet Düverioğlu is not NT eligibile, he plays for Jordan NT.

    with the new EL RS schedule teams will have larger rosters, they ll try to adapt. we wont see an increase in domestic players regardless of the foreign rules. Maccabi already plans to play with 2 different rosters. one for EL one for the domestic league. If your club has the means and the money you can work your way around.
    Last edited by drskull; 05-21-2019 at 08:49 AM.
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    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drskull View Post
    Hido plans to implement a new foreign rule for the sake of "NT"... (gotta add that he already decreased the number from 6 foreigners to 5 last year)

    also Turkish foreign rule is not about being NT eligible, if you are a citizen you are good to go. for example Ahmet Düverioğlu is not NT eligibile, he plays for Jordan NT.

    with the new EL RS schedule teams will have larger rosters, they ll try to adapt. we wont see an increase in domestic players regardless of the foreign rules. Maccabi already plans to play with 2 different rosters. one for EL one for the domestic league. If your club has the means and the money you can work your way around.
    I can't see Macabbi playing with 2 rosters. They struggle with the current one in the Israeli League having won 5 out of the last 10.

    With the new format, teams will struggle greatly. Especially the Spanish teams with a very high standard local league. Teams will definitely need have to have 15-16 players in their rosters. 4 games in 1 week is a struggle for everyone. More so for Russian teams and Maccabi due to their distance from Europe.
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    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
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    On the other hand, with the absence of Oly, we can make a very affordable team to beat AEK and Peristeri, and have 9 foreign players for the EL
    I don’t have specific feelings towards these rules. Since we are moving towards a European league that will overshadow domestic leagues, these rules will mean nothing in the near future I believe. What is needed in that case is a salary cap to make things more competitive.
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    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    interesting to see this discussion out of Turkey . We've had this for years, in exactly the same way, and I think there should be no quota on foreigners. So, I agree with EverGreen.

    https://www.interbasket.net/forums/s...r-quota-in-TBL
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    Senior Member drskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    interesting to see this discussion out of Turkey . We've had this for years, in exactly the same way, and I think there should be no quota on foreigners. So, I agree with EverGreen.

    https://www.interbasket.net/forums/s...r-quota-in-TBL
    I am not convinced by the timing though. The Greek don't have the "Childress" money right now, but they have waited this long to complain.

    Also, Evergreen by foreign players do you mean non-EU players? Afaik in a EU country EU citizens should not be treated as foreigners according to the EU regulations regarding the free movement/roaming of goods and services. You guys can take it to the EU. the rule as you describe it looks like "you have to use at least x amount of Greeks" type of rule rather than "you can't use more than y amount of foreigners" type of rule. it is still an obstacle for EU players.
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    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drskull View Post
    I am not convinced by the timing though. The Greek don't have the "Childress" money right now, but they have waited this long to complain.

    Also, Evergreen by foreign players do you mean non-EU players? Afaik in a EU country EU citizens should not be treated as foreigners according to the EU regulations regarding the free movement/roaming of goods and services. You guys can take it to the EU. the rule as you describe it looks like "you have to use at least x amount of Greeks" type of rule rather than "you can't use more than y amount of foreigners" type of rule. it is still an obstacle for EU players.


    The issue is during "Childress" time the pool of Greek players was strong. Back then the rule was 4 Americans max and 2 EU passport players. Today it's 6 whatever nationality and 6 players eligible to play for the Greek NT or with Greek citizenship. Vezenkov has a Greek passport but chose to play for Bulgaria.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
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    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I noticed that all 4 of the clubs that made the F4 were consisted of 1-2 local players.

    CSKA: Kurbanov and Vorontsetich (who did not play at all)

    Fener: Melih, Duverioglou (let's not mention the other that were in the squad only because of injuries to other players)

    Real: Rudi, Llul and Reyes (no time or trash time)

    Efes: Balbay (trash time).


    Greek teams are forced to have a minimum of 6 players in their squad for the Greek League. I'm sure PAO could find good Americans for the $300K Thanasis earns, or Pappas 750K and Papagiannis' 600K. We're forced to pay massive overs to abide by the rules.

    Things are more difficult for the team if you are forced to have let's say another 2-3 Americans in the EL because 1) cost 2) team cohesion.

    These rules were OK 10 years ago with Greece having many talented players but the pool is very shallow these days for EL standard players.

    PAO should look to have this changed to drop from 6 Greek nationals to at least 5.

    With Oly dropping to A2 (if the government doesn't intervene) then they will take full advantage running a team in A2 comprised to talented and A2 experienced players with a budget no bigger than 250-300K. For the EL they will probably end up fielding a minimum of 9 Greeks at the EL has absolutely no restrictions. The no restrictions doesn't allow the true face of a countries basketball value to shine.

    It would be interesting to see how well clubs would perform if there was a rule on maximum imports as it was under FIBA rules once upon a time.

    These days if you have the money you can field 12 Americans if you like. I think that is rubbish and only helps clubs with the most money.

    Other teams:

    Armani: Don't use Italians.
    Barca: 3 Spanish players
    Bayern: 2 Germans
    Baskonia: 0 Spaniards
    Khimki: 3 Russians
    Maccabi: 2 Israelis

    The only teams with plenty of locals are Zalgiris (5), and Daru, Canaria and Buducnost who finished bottom.
    No, Greek teams just gives too mych attention for Greek League rules. In Turkey they were same rule ( 6 Turkish players) this year it has turned to 7 Turkish players at gameday squad. There is no restriction for euroleague. So Greek teams could use more than 6 foreigner.

    Actually I really dont understand why they are obsessed with Greek players so much. Greek league standarts are already very low. Oly and Pao easliy dominate the opponents by 20-30 margains maybe more. So If you have 2-3 average Greek plaers + 6 foreigners you could easly go on the domination. You dont need to overpay for Greerk players for their passports. Get 9 foreigners, use 3 of them only in euroleague. Euroleague season insist of at least 30 games , no players would mind the absence of Greek domestic league games.

  14. #14
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    I understand your logic, Cemalex but it also comes down to team cohesion. Having 2 differant teams for A1 and EL is bit of a nightmare for the coach. With Oly dropping to A2 we don't need quality Greek players for next year but we will again the season after. The issue is that all Greek players have running contracts for another 2+ years which means we are stuck with them. Only Thanasis' contract expires this year and more likely than not he will be renewed because he's Giannis' brother and PAO want to have the Antetokounbo family close and associated with Panathinaikos for many reasons.

    The other issue is have a local basis that will stay for years and be the foundation of the team. That was the Greek players for both PAO and Oly which proved successful in the past. Greek players are more loyal than foreigners and that's why they are offered 3 year contracts compared to 1, 1+1 or 2. Foreigners will always look to get more money especially when they are on the up and prefer not to sign lengthy minimum increase contracts. They don't care if they play eurocup instead of EL if a Russian team can offer them a bigger contract. For example Chris Singleton had signed a 1+1 (PAO option contract for 1 mil first season and 1,2 mil second season, PAO offered to upgrade his 2nd season contract to 1,4 mill and then 1,5 the 3rd season but he rejected because he felt he could get more money (and he did via Barca and $1.8mil).

    For example Keith Langford said in an interview that he has regretted chasing the money instead of trophies/ glory and when his manager told him last year PAO was interested he told him to respond with a "YES" no matter how low PAO's offer was. He accepted PAO's $600K immediately without negotiation. He said he had bigger $$$ offers but did not care for them as they were not from elite teams.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

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