Fenerbahçe 2019-20

[janketa]

I am wondering why we always choose mediocre american players (poor scouting included) when there are quite good foreign players in BSL in front of nose.

Just one example but there are much more.
We brought Stimac(I don't think that was a big mistake at all) instead of Vesely in first place, then fired him and brought Malcolm Thomas who is offensively impotent.

In the same time we have player like Moustapha Fall who owns everything we need in this moment. He is tall, can score, can rebound, can block. Hew isn't quick and not such great ft shooter(still better then all our bigs), everything else would be upgrade over our current frontcourt players. He could play 15-20 mins with high impact on the game. Much more then Ahmet for sure and much better then Thomas in offence.

I am sure we payed some buyouts to chinese clubs for Thomas and Nunnally so I don't see reason why would be problem to do the same with any mid range BSL club.
Just one example

[Furkan Korkmaz]

Or something like this:

Erden - irrelevant for high level EL basketball
Asik - OK, fair loss
Bojan - Legitimate loss of a quality player that played 3 seasons in Fener
Bjelica - Legitimate loss
Yurtseven - irrelevant, not even a senior player yet
Udoh - He was already an NBA guy, that came to Europe to get another contract. Nobody smart would've built around him.
Bogdan - Legitimate loss
Wanamaker - One-year rental
Nunnally - one-year rental
Melli - Legitimate loss
Guduric - A fair loss.

Yeah yeah Yurtseven is irrelevant but useless Guduric, who even in his last euroleague season was nothing but a liability in terms of his team’s trophy ambitions, is a “”fair loss””. This reminds me when you called Markomark better than Korkmaz lol. Yeah now in hindsight you were very correct, he sure is better at being a waterboy. And that on a tanking team while Furk’s on a contender. 3 whopping minutes over the last 4 games lol, how’d he manage that with his career bigger than Furk, while even being older : D. But apparently him and Asik are same degree losses too, with a doubtful “Ok” for Asik who without his illnesses was a beast in the NBA. Something Guduric will never ever be.

Can you like really stop overrating your trash players in correlation to ours, under atleast the Turkish topic threads? Yurtseven will have 100 times the career Guduric will have, he is never irrelevant and a big loss of talent for Fener because now they’re stuck with Duverioglu and for a while even worthless Stimac who clearly doesnt belong in any ambitious EL team but in “we’re here to say we’re here” level teams like Zvezda... I already told you Guduric was a nobody and he didn’t prove me wrong. You on the other hand made yourself look silly sticking up for a guy who can hardly gather 10 minutes over multiple games in the NBA.

[CoachZ]

Yeah yeah Yurtseven is irrelevant but useless Guduric, who even in his last euroleague season was nothing but a liability in terms of his team’s trophy ambitions, is a “”fair loss””. This reminds me when you called Markomark better than Korkmaz lol. Yeah now in hindsight you were very correct, he sure is better at being a waterboy. And that on a tanking team while Furk’s on a contender. 3 whopping minutes over the last 4 games lol, how’d he manage that with his career bigger than Furk, while even being older : D. But apparently him and Asik are same degree losses too, with a doubtful “Ok” for Asik who without his illnesses was a beast in the NBA. Something Guduric will never ever be.

Can you like really stop overrating your trash players in correlation to ours, under atleast the Turkish topic threads? Yurtseven will have 100 times the career Guduric will have, he is never irrelevant and a big loss of talent for Fener because now they’re stuck with Duverioglu and for a while even worthless Stimac who clearly doesnt belong in any ambitious EL team but in “we’re here to say we’re here” level teams like Zvezda... I already told you Guduric was a nobody and he didn’t prove me wrong. You on the other hand made yourself look silly sticking up for a guy who can hardly gather 10 minutes over multiple games in the NBA.

A fair loss means, an OK loss, not an amazing one. Guduric HAS a senior career, Yursteven doesn't. What the hell is so complicated for you to understand. Yursteven HAS to PROVE that he can play basketball at a high level, something that is not certain, while Guduric has already done that. Guduric is not an amazing player BUT he is a legit Euroleague player that could start for many EL teams. I never thought his NBA move is the right one, because he doesn't really have a future there due to his defense before all. Asik is the same level of loss BECAUSE he was not an amazing player when he was in Fener and left for NBA. Sure Asik's career made a jump in the NBA but he was not THAT player in Fener. He has two seasons in Fener, averaging something like 8 and 6, and suddenly he is a beast, Olajuwon? Also if Guduric was so useless, how come team looks way worse despite adding DeColo instead of him in the backcourt Some people...

Gotta love your approach. Furkan Korkmaz will never be what you think he can be. Kid doesn't have what it takes. The sooner you realize that, the better you will understand this. He is a No. 6 option in a Philly team that CAN'T shoot and has nobody in the backcourt. It's a nice set of circumstances and yet he is not converting at a high rate and his defense is just laughable. If he can't be a serious role player in these circumstances, when will he be able to do it? He is at the moment one of the worst sixth men in NBA...

[janketa]

Also if Guduric was so useless, how come team looks way worse despite adding DeColo instead of him in the backcourt Some people...

Not arguing with other statements, I even agree with the most of that, but De Colo is big upgrade over Guduric. Far away from that Guduric was useless, just De Colo is class above him.

Shity situation in Fener is caused by other issues, first of all big downgrade from Melli to williams, then bad form caused by long injuries of some players and incompetence of management to find true solution for those problems.

[Toruko]

Yurt back then was of course not an serious option but now he would help the team without a doubt, better than any big except vesely in good health but well see what the outcome will be. He is a bit slow an he lacks athleticism and has a very modest wingspan but his offensive versatility should make him give a serious nba career at least as a sixth man etc.

Furkan is a mess defensively and hell be never a decent defender in the nba but he is also not ready right now. Its hard to say something about him right now since his body is not ready. He needs to bulk up more 10 pounds.

Offensively he will be a very potent scorer i am convinced of that. He is used primarily used as spot up shooter right now but he is an all around scorer. Of course he wont be in the 25 best player of the nba or something like that but among 75 is a realistic scenario not now but in 2-3 years. Its great to see him as the sixth man right now.

Guduric is not an nba player and in my opinion he has also not the material for a euroleague top team. He had just a bonus because of ZOC but we all know that many Fener player are not top euroleague level material.

[Furkan Korkmaz]

A fair loss means, an OK loss, not an amazing one. Guduric HAS a senior career, Yursteven doesn't. What the hell is so complicated for you to understand. Yursteven HAS to PROVE that he can play basketball at a high level, something that is not certain, while Guduric has already done that. Guduric is not an amazing player BUT he is a legit Euroleague player that could start for many EL teams. I never thought his NBA move is the right one, because he doesn't really have a future there due to his defense before all. Asik is the same level of loss BECAUSE he was not an amazing player when he was in Fener and left for NBA. Sure Asik's career made a jump in the NBA but he was not THAT player in Fener. He has two seasons in Fener, averaging something like 8 and 6, and suddenly he is a beast, Olajuwon? Also if Guduric was so useless, how come team looks way worse despite adding DeColo instead of him in the backcourt Some people...

Gotta love your approach. Furkan Korkmaz will never be what you think he can be. Kid doesn't have what it takes. The sooner you realize that, the better you will understand this. He is a No. 6 option in a Philly team that CAN'T shoot and has nobody in the backcourt. It's a nice set of circumstances and yet he is not converting at a high rate and his defense is just laughable. If he can't be a serious role player in these circumstances, when will he be able to do it? He is at the moment one of the worst sixth men in NBA...

Are you really insinuating that De Colo is a downgrade to Guduric? Some people... like you haha.
Fener had Melli-Vesely on 4-5 last season, now Williams-Lauvergne/Duveri. This is a massive downgrade, and bas absolutely nothing to do with guduric. If anything Nando is the only light coming out of this team, I dont even want to imagine what the situation would be if it was Guduric there haha.

As for what I see in Furk, why? Did I ever claim he’d be an MVP? You’re the one systematically overrating your players, only to see them bust hard then come admit he was “never that good anyway”. This wasn’t your tone regarding Guduric before he went to the NBA. But Furkan will have a legitimate NBA career, and still has time to improve. He’s definitely not the worst 6th man, he leads his team in threes made at a near 40% percentage and that while his attempt perbhake average is only 6.6 (the Sixers have many big names so this is normal).

But what bothered me most was you calling a clearly talented guy like Yurtseven IRRELEVANT. What kind of outrageous remark is this? You call what Guduric has a career?? That’s your problem, but what Yurtseven does in the NCAA surely is more valuable than let’s say having a “senior career” in a banana league like the serbian one. Clearly Yurtseven now would be an immediate upgrade to trashes like Lauvergne or Duverioglu, and that for Fener is a big miss.

[CoachZ]

Not arguing with other statements, I even agree with the most of that, but De Colo is big upgrade over Guduric. Far away from that Guduric was useless, just De Colo is class above him.

Shity situation in Fener is caused by other issues, first of all big downgrade from Melli to williams, then bad form caused by long injuries of some players and incompetence of management to find true solution for those problems.

Both you and this loudmouth FK misunderstood the text. Not that Guduric is better than DeColo. I precisely said that despite adding DeColo on the court things look quite shitty, and yes you do miss Guduric. It's easy to put everything on the lack of bigs, but Fener has terrible problems on the perimeter as well and the quality of shots you are taking is WAY DOWN, compared to other seasons.

[CoachZ]

Are you really insinuating that De Colo is a downgrade to Guduric? Some people... like you haha.
Fener had Melli-Vesely on 4-5 last season, now Williams-Lauvergne/Duveri. This is a massive downgrade, and bas absolutely nothing to do with guduric. If anything Nando is the only light coming out of this team, I dont even want to imagine what the situation would be if it was Guduric there haha.

As for what I see in Furk, why? Did I ever claim he’d be an MVP? You’re the one systematically overrating your players, only to see them bust hard then come admit he was “never that good anyway”. This wasn’t your tone regarding Guduric before he went to the NBA. But Furkan will have a legitimate NBA career, and still has time to improve. He’s definitely not the worst 6th man, he leads his team in threes made at a near 40% percentage and that while his attempt perbhake average is only 6.6 (the Sixers have many big names so this is normal).

But what bothered me most was you calling a clearly talented guy like Yurtseven IRRELEVANT. What kind of outrageous remark is this? You call what Guduric has a career?? That’s your problem, but what Yurtseven does in the NCAA surely is more valuable than let’s say having a “senior career” in a banana league like the serbian one. Clearly Yurtseven now would be an immediate upgrade to trashes like Lauvergne or Duverioglu, and that for Fener is a big miss.

Dude you have serious issues. I said that DESPITE adding DeColo Fener is having terrible issues in the backcourt. Not just problems with the bigs. Guduric was a perfect fit for the system and yes Fener misses him. Nando DeColo is a guy that gets his always, not always the best teammate or the player that plays for others. Keep that in mind in the years to come while he is there.

Systematically overrating? Who did I overrate? I am one of the most critical posters on all IBN, the least hype stuff about youth guys are well. I assess prospects very realistically, and point out their flaws. It's a problem that guys like you (others as well) find it difficult to take that because you have a boner for a player and then you get discussions like this. Furkan is finally getting minutes in his third year in NBA, as a sixth man. Whether he will stick, we will see. Also 37.7% is not anywhere close to 40%. The kid has a good shot, and that is about it. So many stories about his play with the ball, creation by many posters and of course there is no sign of that. Defense is laughable. Here is a small challenge, list me 10 Sixth Man guys in the NBA that are worse than Furkan Korkmaz.

It is irrelevant because that kid did NOTHING for the senior team of Fener and he is still playing against kids. Playing with 18-21yrs olds and he CONSTANTLY struggles against top opposition in the NCAA. He is talented, so are many others. He is not nearly in the first tier of European talents, questionably whether he is in the second. The career he will have is YET TO BE ESTABLISHED. When you get that, maybe you will understand. Popping 20 pts on a 6-6 center from Burton College or playing against a 10-year ver of European leagues. Those are different planets. I don't believe that Yurtseven would do shit in EL at his skill level now. Many would agree.

Also, being disrespectful is your choice. You can call Serbian league trash. Guduric has proven himself in Euroleague for 4 seasons, never playing under 15 minutes with a significant role for both Zvezda and Fenerbahce. He is a member of Serbian NT. His career is very solid, he got that NBA contract because of it and even played 15 minutes a game for 27 games this season. I didn't expect him to get those minutes, as I never saw him as a NBA type of player. Even if he flames out, he will always have a solid career in Europe. If you think that career is trash, then Yurtseven's current career is that he missed a sport. He is playing voleyball.

[vivo]

I won't talk about the issues of Fener because I have a million posts on it, just need to say there is no point comparing Guduric and Yurtseven. First one has an established career in Europe as a very efficient scorer and ball distributor and gets minutes in NBA one way or another so far. Yurtseven meanwhile is playing against peasants mostly, has proved nothing at all yet, and he is exactly NOT the type of big NBA wants right now. We will see how his career goes.

[Levenspiel]

I won't talk about the issues of Fener because I have a million posts on it, just need to say there is no point comparing Guduric and Yurtseven. First one has an established career in Europe as a very efficient scorer and ball distributor and gets minutes in NBA one way or another so far. Yurtseven meanwhile is playing against peasants mostly, has proved nothing at all yet, and he is exactly NOT the type of big NBA wants right now. We will see how his career goes.

Ditto. I don't know where this confidence about Yurtseven is coming from, from his NCAA games maybe because he was not that impressive in Euro youth tournaments or in limited senior team exposure. Better prospects have disappeared, so many of them.

besides, I have a feeling he will never return to Turkey (this is related to NT, not that it matters for his potential career path)

[Furkan Korkmaz]

Dude you have serious issues. I said that DESPITE adding DeColo Fener is having terrible issues in the backcourt. Not just problems with the bigs. Guduric was a perfect fit for the system and yes Fener misses him. Nando DeColo is a guy that gets his always, not always the best teammate or the player that plays for others. Keep that in mind in the years to come while he is there.

Systematically overrating? Who did I overrate? I am one of the most critical posters on all IBN, the least hype stuff about youth guys are well. I assess prospects very realistically, and point out their flaws. It's a problem that guys like you (others as well) find it difficult to take that because you have a boner for a player and then you get discussions like this. Furkan is finally getting minutes in his third year in NBA, as a sixth man. Whether he will stick, we will see. Also 37.7% is not anywhere close to 40%. The kid has a good shot, and that is about it. So many stories about his play with the ball, creation by many posters and of course there is no sign of that. Defense is laughable. Here is a small challenge, list me 10 Sixth Man guys in the NBA that are worse than Furkan Korkmaz.

It is irrelevant because that kid did NOTHING for the senior team of Fener and he is still playing against kids. Playing with 18-21yrs olds and he CONSTANTLY struggles against top opposition in the NCAA. He is talented, so are many others. He is not nearly in the first tier of European talents, questionably whether he is in the second. The career he will have is YET TO BE ESTABLISHED. When you get that, maybe you will understand. Popping 20 pts on a 6-6 center from Burton College or playing against a 10-year ver of European leagues. Those are different planets. I don't believe that Yurtseven would do shit in EL at his skill level now. Many would agree.

Also, being disrespectful is your choice. You can call Serbian league trash. Guduric has proven himself in Euroleague for 4 seasons, never playing under 15 minutes with a significant role for both Zvezda and Fenerbahce. He is a member of Serbian NT. His career is very solid, he got that NBA contract because of it and even played 15 minutes a game for 27 games this season. I didn't expect him to get those minutes, as I never saw him as a NBA type of player. Even if he flames out, he will always have a solid career in Europe. If you think that career is trash, then Yurtseven's current career is that he missed a sport. He is playing voleyball.

Haha you’re so funny coach Goksenin. I have issues yeah, that’s why I’m under the zvezda thread talking down on Serbian prospects and nba players. Hahaha. And you are indeed very critical when it comes to Turkish players... like that time you project Furkan to bust and find himself in Europe again. But the truth is he suffered 2 big injuries in both his first 2 seasons, and still knocked his way up to a reasonable position on a tricky team. And he’s still younger than Guduric. Yeah I’ve seen what your critical nonsense is worth. You also were challenging me saying Turkey was gold favorite for u18 last summer, but we actually nearly got gold if it wasn’t for the referee and Serbia again was nowhere.

You’re always critical against my favorite prospects for some reason, but at the end I’m the one who ends up being correct. I didnt forget your optimistic tone regarding Guduric, so why does he play 3 mins a game haha. He has proven what in Europe? I can count the great performances he had in the Euroleague on one hand, and that’s because coach kept putting him out there despite his obvious shortcomings. But what do you expect from a bias-scout like Obradovic, he’s literally paying 2M to this Lauvergne because he has a Partizan tattoo on his arm, in the meantime received less added value from him than he would from an average CL center of 300-500k. On top of that Asvel steals the current rebound leader of the Euroleague right from under his nose out of the Turkish league, and probably pays him half of what Lauvergne receives. This Obradovic is a total disaster when it comes to team building... simply being signed with Fener doesn’t mean you have proven anything. As someone who has watched every Fener game Guduric has played in... he hasn’t proven shit and was only there because he is Serbian. Unfortunately for Markomark the Grizzlies dont have a Serb head coach to give him those undeserved minutes to make you believe he has also “proven himself” in the NBA.

[CoachZ]

Haha you’re so funny coach Goksenin. I have issues yeah, that’s why I’m under the zvezda thread talking down on Serbian prospects and nba players. Hahaha. And you are indeed very critical when it comes to Turkish players... like that time you project Furkan to bust and find himself in Europe again. But the truth is he suffered 2 big injuries in both his first 2 seasons, and still knocked his way up to a reasonable position on a tricky team. And he’s still younger than Guduric. Yeah I’ve seen what your critical nonsense is worth. You also were challenging me saying Turkey was gold favorite for u18 last summer, but we actually nearly got gold if it wasn’t for the referee and Serbia again was nowhere.

You’re always critical against my favorite prospects for some reason, but at the end I’m the one who ends up being correct. I didnt forget your optimistic tone regarding Guduric, so why does he play 3 mins a game haha. He has proven what in Europe? I can count the great performances he had in the Euroleague on one hand, and that’s because coach kept putting him out there despite his obvious shortcomings. But what do you expect from a bias-scout like Obradovic, he’s literally paying 2M to this Lauvergne because he has a Partizan tattoo on his arm, in the meantime received less added value from him than he would from an average CL center of 300-500k. On top of that Asvel steals the current rebound leader of the Euroleague right from under his nose out of the Turkish league, and probably pays him half of what Lauvergne receives. This Obradovic is a total disaster when it comes to team building... simply being signed with Fener doesn’t mean you have proven anything. As someone who has watched every Fener game Guduric has played in... he hasn’t proven shit and was only there because he is Serbian. Unfortunately for Markomark the Grizzlies dont have a Serb head coach to give him those undeserved minutes to make you believe he has also “proven himself” in the NBA.

Hahah. Pure gold. If you ever decide to use facts, we can talk until then just enjoy your echo chamber. The time will tell about everything.

Also, I am critical of all prospects but you are obviously gay for some of them, and that makes you write these "look at me, look at me" posts.

Anyway, some of your fellow countrymen have pretty much gotten the point, but you haven't. I can't fight genetics and mental capacity. I am not a superhero...

[Tevfik1907]

Nunnally interview.

[Furkan Korkmaz]

Hahah. Pure gold. If you ever decide to use facts, we can talk until then just enjoy your echo chamber. The time will tell about everything.

Also, I am critical of all prospects but you are obviously gay for some of them, and that makes you write these "look at me, look at me" posts.

Anyway, some of your fellow countrymen have pretty much gotten the point, but you haven't. I can't fight genetics and mental capacity. I am not a superhero...

I cant decide whether I like or hate you Coach G. What kind of fallacy filled empty mumbo jumbo is this? You never tackle the points I bring up, but come with weird boner stories... because I sympathize with one of our NBA players lmao. I thought we were adults here. You also insinuate I’m some forum troll with my hardly 20 posts... strictly about TURKISH matters.

We Turks can’t even compliment our players among ourselves without you jumping out marginalizing them. And I did check your profile out of curiosity, you’re not like this on threads related to other countries. I just think you have a massive complex with us, which is fine, I understand we Turks are fun to be around. But you should atleast come with something more creative than suggesting I’m sexually attracted to Furkan lol.

[CoachZ]

I cant decide whether I like or hate you Coach G. What kind of fallacy filled empty mumbo jumbo is this? You never tackle the points I bring up, but come with weird boner stories... because I sympathize with one of our NBA players lmao. I thought we were adults here. You also insinuate I’m some forum troll with my hardly 20 posts... strictly about TURKISH matters.

We Turks can’t even compliment our players among ourselves without you jumping out marginalizing them. And I did check your profile out of curiosity, you’re not like this on threads related to other countries. I just think you have a massive complex with us, which is fine, I understand we Turks are fun to be around. But you should atleast come with something more creative than suggesting I’m sexually attracted to Furkan lol.

You can ask our Lithuanian friends about that for example. I often commented on their talents in the past, always had good discussions without this craze. We didn't always agree, but it never gets like this.

I get that Turkish guys have a more hot-headed mentality and tend to go apeshit, but I really don't care for that. Even in the youth tournament topics last summer I wrote nice things about Turkish players I like or bad things about those I don't. I did the same for Greek kids, yet noone really had an issue with that. Always the same shit comes up with a few Turkish posters. Why is that? I think you are a smart guy and figure this one out.

I get that you guys have a chip on your shoulder and have something to prove, still there is no reason to go apeshit about kids playing basketball and prospects. Time always tells. Everybody makes mistakes and bad judgments. I know I do. I always thought for example that Rakocevic will be shit player. I thought that there is no chance that Tony Parker will make it in the NBA. I also was right a number of times. Over the years and experience, I mostly do figure it out correctly. When I am not right I have no trouble to admit it, and I don't feel about it. Life goes on, impossible to predict everything. Injuries, motivation, character all are things that you can't see day-to-day with kids. Skills are more obvious, so I rely on those.

Obviously boner and gay stuff is a joke. It's connected to the hardcore stances you have about Furkan. Surely, only his mother or girlfriend will go to those extremes.