[2019 F4 Final] CSKA Moscow - Anadolu Efes

[iraz]

The worst CSKA of recent times won their easiest euroleague ever.Says it all about current level of competition.Most blame goes to Lolaso who handed them the Semi final victory with genius moves like playing Gabriel Deck 20 minutes and playing Thomkins instead of Tavares at center in crunch time.

Efes did an admirable job but they didnt have the players to expose the weak front line of "Russians" the way players like Poirer did.Dunston did well all the 3 other front line players were bad,Pleiss especially a terrible joke.Still they won a shit ton of offensive rebounds.Baskonia had the bigs but not the guards,Efes was the opposite and they needed some players to step up.Beaubois was awful,didnt give them anything.Simon was the classic Simon with one good play followed by 2 dumb turnovers.

Please pardon me, if I am mistaken, but are you the guy who some time ago took an oath not to watch EL games because of Bertomeu mafia and all that stuff? In this case I believe I should thank you for watching these 2 disgusting games and sharing your precious opinion.

[iraz]

What the hell can Laso do if he had Tavares with 4 fouls, Rudy equally with foul problems? The only thing we can blame on Laso, is not giving more minutes to Causeur instead of Llull.

With all respect to Laso, but the best players must play in the 4th Q and 4 fouls is nothing special. For instance in our final game against Fener in 2016 De Colo, Teo, Hines - all played with 4 fouls till the end and in the OT.

[Mr Chacho]

With all respect to Laso, but the best players must play in the 4th Q and 4 fouls is nothing special. For instance in our final game against Fener in 2016 De Colo, Teo, Hines - all played with 4 fouls till the end and in the OT.

Edy would have been ejected in the next play, I am sure. A 220 cm tall player is not like a 190 or 198.

[iraz]

Edy would have been ejected in the next play, I am sure. A 220 cm tall player is not like a 190 or 198.

May be he would, may be not. Laso could have tried to make changes with him on offence and defence. But well, I am not trying to say that I know better, only it looked like he was somewhat overwhelmed by emotions and lost control. And Causer was certainly the biggest threat in this game and deserved more minutes.

[Overthetop]

hey guys, I was walking over a bridge all night, pondering about life, shooting percentages etc, and then maybe jumping off of it.
I hope it's not much of a mess here, and other mods could intervene. will be quite busy today.

congratulations to CSKA fans!

cheers.

I have fellow feeling and sympathy with you, your words reminded me of what I felt after Fener vs. CSKA, the championship game of 2015-16 EL season

Enlightening. Thanks for that.

PS What's the meaning of gErgin?? I know you are playing with his name but what exactly?

As Tevfik1907 replied "gergin" means tense and nervous, the funny thing is "ergin" means adult, mature, full-grown, grown up etc. and Ataman mostly behaves improperly in defiance of his name towards Fener and Fener fans.

[Nemanja]

About final,Cska convingly won .Excellent shoot,good drive,using own quality and Efes weaknesses ,defense of Cska was solid .Also,they made somi mistake which are potetially very problematically,19 offensive rebound of Efes,twice foul on3points,losing ball in finish 3rd quarter,when they have time till the ende,unsportsmanlike foul of Hacket 2 minutes untill ende of game .But they covered with great shoot ,andusing individual quality and weaknesse of Efes and raising of defense in right moments .Cska had 7 players which are on level of starters,Rodriguez,De Colo,Hackett,Higgins,Cluyburn ,Hines,Hunter.What Efes havent .In Efes Larkin played excelletn,Dunston played good,Simon good ofensively,Micic excpected drop it,Beaubois and Moerman points missed . Missed also influence of coach in some monents.With all that,Cska despite didnt played excellent on f4 won ,expected by my opinion .

[Efesdxb]

Hi Everybody...just got back to Turkey and was absent for the weekend for obvious reasons.

First things first; CONGRATS to CSKA for the EL Trophy!!!

Vitoria is one of the shittiest places to have a F4. I think EL management should stick to big cities. It was a torture for almost all fans. Though I like Spain very much, this was awful!

For the events in the end of the game, some background:
When it is certain that your team will win the game, taking a time out in the vaning seconds of the game is an asshole-ish thing. It is called "ibne molası" translated as a faggot's timeout", and gErgin Ataman is known for this shit.
Therefore Fenerbahçe fans were chanting "mola alsana" to gErgin meaning "why don't you take a timeout?"
It is teasing, but hardly offensive eh?
This asshole turns to the fans, raises both arms and starts making gestures...
This gets things a bit more serious and the fans started chanting "doping yapsana" to gErgin, meaning "why don't you do doping?" clearly referring to the "cathine-doping" incident that burns the memories of many Fener fans, and burns the reputation of gErgin even more... STILL NO SWEARING MIND YOU.
Then gErgin screams "siktirin gidin orospu çocukları" meaning "fuck off sons of bitches" to the stands and hell breaks loose, with the fans swearing and moving towards the field.
Some pseudo efes fans get in the way led by the nephew of the team owner, and Fener fans get to the point of kicking the ever-loving-shit out of the assholes when Fenerbahçe president gets down and calms things up.

gErgin Ataman may be a good coach, but a complete asshole, who has both violence against women (beating his girlfriend), and doping in his past. He is a disgrace to basketball.

Anyway...congrats to Cska, Efes, and Real for the weekend...

Congratulations to CSKA for well deserved victory.
I agree with all words of Cuneyt what he said about location of Final 4. EL should chose more major cities rather than Vitoria (great to have a great team like Baskonia but not a great place for Final 4).
Ergin Ataman is a good coach but not a good character. As a professional even if supporters are cursing you, you shouldn't be answering them. I appreciate him as a coach but don't like him.
About Ergin Ataman story Cuneyt is fully right just a small correction/addition, when Fenerbahce fans behind CSKA bench chanting for doping issue, fans near to Efes bench behind the baseline (109,209) were swearing at him "OC Ergin Ataman". I heard this clearly because I was sitting on 305b, where I was closer to that side. This is the moment he started swearing to FB fans, (which I didn't hear in the arena but later saw on twitter) walked to the referee desk and had conversation with Lamonica.
In this case there is nothing to defend Ergin Ataman. He has to control his nerves.
Fenerbahce fans has every right to say anything they want to Ataman during FB vs teams Ataman coaching, but it looked weird on two ways:
1. The game was not against FB
2. They haven't said anything at the game on Friday. It would be better if they did on Friday, maybe the tension might have worked on Fenerbahce side.

[Cuneyt]

Congratulations to CSKA for well deserved victory.
I agree with all words of Cuneyt what he said about location of Final 4. EL should chose more major cities rather than Vitoria (great to have a great team like Baskonia but not a great place for Final 4).
Ergin Ataman is a good coach but not a good character. As a professional even if supporters are cursing you, you shouldn't be answering them. I appreciate him as a coach but don't like him.
About Ergin Ataman story Cuneyt is fully right just a small correction/addition, when Fenerbahce fans behind CSKA bench chanting for doping issue, fans near to Efes bench behind the baseline (109,209) were swearing at him "OC Ergin Ataman". I heard this clearly because I was sitting on 305b, where I was closer to that side. This is the moment he started swearing to FB fans, (which I didn't hear in the arena but later saw on twitter) walked to the referee desk and had conversation with Lamonica.
In this case there is nothing to defend Ergin Ataman. He has to control his nerves.
Fenerbahce fans has every right to say anything they want to Ataman during FB vs teams Ataman coaching, but it looked weird on two ways:
1. The game was not against FB
2. They haven't said anything at the game on Friday. It would be better if they did on Friday, maybe the tension might have worked on Fenerbahce side.

Agreed Efesdxb,

I did not hear th bolded part, but I can totally believe it.
Swearing, though it is unsportslike, is common in the fan circles even though the basketball crowd is a bit more mature. Though I like swearing myself, there is just no excuse for it other than being a sore loser. In this case, FB fans probably could not digest losing to Efes on Friday (understandable) and was just looking for an excuse for abuse. Efes is not hated in FB circles so the negative energy was looking for a place to discharge, and gErgin was it.
Though this may seem unfair to gErgin, I believe he should have shrugged it off and let it pass. He, however, LIVES FOR THIS SHIT and loves this type of environment.

When I compare this to Obradovic, him not engaging gs fans even after they spat a large luge of spit ON HIS FACE...it is hard to understand gErgin. It is just a shame because he is a good coach, just not a good person.

It is a dilemma for us as well. I wish he was not coaching Efes, but Efes probably would not have succeeded this well w/o him as we have seen Blatt, Perasovic, Ivkovic etc fail.

Anyway...next year if the F4 is in Athens, we should hold an interbasket-beer-fest

[Tevfik1907]

Congratulations to CSKA for well deserved victory.
I agree with all words of Cuneyt what he said about location of Final 4. EL should chose more major cities rather than Vitoria (great to have a great team like Baskonia but not a great place for Final 4).
Ergin Ataman is a good coach but not a good character. As a professional even if supporters are cursing you, you shouldn't be answering them. I appreciate him as a coach but don't like him.
About Ergin Ataman story Cuneyt is fully right just a small correction/addition, when Fenerbahce fans behind CSKA bench chanting for doping issue, fans near to Efes bench behind the baseline (109,209) were swearing at him "OC Ergin Ataman". I heard this clearly because I was sitting on 305b, where I was closer to that side. This is the moment he started swearing to FB fans, (which I didn't hear in the arena but later saw on twitter) walked to the referee desk and had conversation with Lamonica.
In this case there is nothing to defend Ergin Ataman. He has to control his nerves.
Fenerbahce fans has every right to say anything they want to Ataman during FB vs teams Ataman coaching, but it looked weird on two ways:
1. The game was not against FB
2. They haven't said anything at the game on Friday. It would be better if they did on Friday, maybe the tension might have worked on Fenerbahce side.

There is a contradiction here then, because Ali Koç specifically said gErgin cursed at the Fenerbahçe fans, only after Fenerbahçe fans said ''mola alsana'' (take a break).

Since to say that ''take a break'' isn't an insult.

[Killer Bob]

Give us a break. Fener didn’t play, so Fener fans shouldn’t have any conflict with Ataman. Saying that he is to blame is just laughable. The man was just losing the most important game of his life.

[Cuneyt]

Give us a break. Fener didn’t play, so Fener fans shouldn’t have any conflict with Ataman. Saying that he is to blame is just laughable. The man was just losing the most important game of his life.

So it is ok for a coach to spew unlamented swear words to the stands and fans? This is no excuse.

Fortunately YOU DO NOT DECIDE what conflict paying customers of the F4 should or should not have. Fenerbahçe fans do have a conflict with gErgin since the DOPING SCANDAL. Maybe warrented, maybe not, but it is a fact.

I would personally kick that fat bastard's ass if I had a chance. Related to basketball or not. Should he be in fault or not. Does not matter. He is hated by most, and righfully so.
And fans have a right to protest whomever they want, whenever they wish as long as they are legally there (paying customers).

Basketball professionals do not have the luxury to swear at the fans. Period.

[Killer Bob]

So it is ok for a coach to spew unlamented swear words to the stands and fans? This is no excuse.

Fortunately YOU DO NOT DECIDE what conflict paying customers of the F4 should or should not have. Fenerbahçe fans do have a conflict with gErgin since the DOPING SCANDAL. Maybe warrented, maybe not, but it is a fact.

I would personally kick that fat bastard's ass if I had a chance. Related to basketball or not. Should he be in fault or not. Does not matter. He is hated by most, and righfully so.
And fans have a right to protest whomever they want, whenever they wish as long as they are legally there (paying customers).

Basketball professionals do not have the luxury to swear at the fans. Period.

Where were those fans 2 days ago, when Fener needed them? Silence as a mouse. Great fans indeed. Do you really believe that fans didn’t swear to Ataman? His behavior after that was wrong but understandable, considering his state of mind in those last seconds, losing the final. But the fans started this conflict, showing their lack of class and manners.

[iskoch]

Where were those fans 2 days ago, when Fener needed them? Silence as a mouse. Great fans indeed. Do you really believe that fans didn’t swear to Ataman? His behavior after that was wrong but understandable, considering his state of mind in those last seconds, losing the final. But the fans started this conflict, showing their lack of class and manners.

Dont be so stupid.
He lost the most important game of his life.
And these fans made fun with that.
So cruel but pleasure...

[Killer Bob]

Dont be so stupid.
He lost the most important game of his life.
And these fans made fun with that.
So cruel but pleasure...

I understand that. It’s just laughable to me, how some Fener fans here are blaming him for the incident.

[iskoch]

I understand that. It’s just laughable to me, how some Fener fans here are blaming him for the incident.

Of course he is wrong.
A professional cant tell to fans "fuck off, sons of bitches".
He is a professional of a club.

I dont know much about the incident with Özilhan family.
Probably they got mad after fans reaction to Ataman and started cursing the fans i think...
I don't believe that anyone said anything to them.

Honestly, I think everybody understood the mistake there.
Most of Fener fans supported Efes, who didn't support just kept silence until the end.
But that was totally wrong.
They should have actively supported CSKA.,
If the F4 in Athens next year, probably I will be there.
I really hope Efes to reach the F4 also.
Probably 10-12k Fener fans will be there.
And I am sure that eveybody will support the opponent team against Efes actively...
I wanna be one of those...