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2019 U20 European Championship

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  • #16
    Avdija is a solid player but not for NBA. Has nothing special to survive in the states. Shooting is average, drive to the rim is weak. Defends ok. Israel struggles much against a modest skilled serbian 1999 generation.

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    • #17
      Israel lost to Srbija.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Toruko View Post
        Turkey, Germany and Spain.
        Based on what is Turkey one of the favorites, please explain this

        A serious lack of athleticism, pace and actual talent in that roster. I would like to hear legit basketball reasons why this Turkey generation should be considered among the favorites. You under 18 team in last EC was 12th. The U18 crew from year before that made it to 4th place. Your U19s didn't make it to the WC either.

        Based on what are you making your claim? Who is a mercurial talent in that squad?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CoachZ View Post
          Based on what is Turkey one of the favorites, please explain this

          A serious lack of athleticism, pace and actual talent in that roster. I would like to hear legit basketball reasons why this Turkey generation should be considered among the favorites. You under 18 team in last EC was 12th. The U18 crew from year before that made it to 4th place. Your U19s didn't make it to the WC either.

          Based on what are you making your claim? Who is a mercurial talent in that squad?
          A serious lack of athleticism, pace and actual talent based on the game today?
          Did you watch other games like in the tournament Turgut Atakol one week ago? I dont think so. Legit basketball reasons you ask. We have one of the best playmaker with Mert Akay who took a serious role in BSL with Dacka and also some good games in Euroleague. In Addition to that two guard/forwards with great pace and athleticism with Onuralp Bitim and Sehmus Hazer who was the carrier of Banvit from the bench. A Yigitcan Saybir who made it to the seventh man in the efes roster. A great shooter and great rebounder despite being undersized for his position. At last maybe the best Center in this tournament with Berke Atar who also took serious minutes with Banvit from the Bench in BSL and CL.

          You have obviously not very much knowledge about youth basketball so i will try to answer your questions. Last season our U18 had good a big lack under the rim. Actually our 2000 generation is fairly weak. We have great Guards in 2000 and 2001 with Ömer Yasir Kücük, Mert Akay and Ömercan Ilyasoglu but fairly weak Bigs. Despite being very weak in U18 last year we almost defeated Latvia at home in the quarter finals if i am not mistaken. Thats the reason why we didnt make to the U19 wc. We had also many injuries with Saybir and Ahmet Can Duran. Berke Atar was too old thats why we ran out of Bigs.

          By putting our 1999 guys with our 2000 guys makes us strong with some weaknesses coming from the bench. This team is a bit undersized and shooting could be a problem. It seems also that we are not well prepared defensively but almost no team gave me that feeling.

          By watching a game you cant take a good picture from a team. Unlike your impression today this turkish team plays with great pace and athleticism. Of course not all of them Atar for example is an old school, soft guy but with good footwork. I think todays performance was a problem of a changed place and a problem of motivation.

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          • #20
            Once again you talk about things you know little of. Like accusing me of not knowing a lot about the youth setup.

            Akay? Serious role of 10minutes a game in a team that was basically cannon fodder? And still hasn't seen the court in 3/4 of the games? Great PG with a negative AST/TO rate? Cmon, lets be serious. You are seriously overrating the kid. I got nothing against him, still he would not be even a Top 5 PG for me in this tournament. Velicka, Alocen, Madar, Uskokovic, Moraitis, Klavzar are all miles ahead of him as prospects and current players.

            Bitim is probably the most overrated prospect in youth basketball in the last decade, along with few other guys. Are we even going to talk about his downfall as a prospect as he progresses through the ranks. Since his U16 campaign, he has been in constant downfall. Are we going even to mention his last year's campaign with your NT in the U20s? Once again, look at basketball in more objective way.

            Hazar is the only guy who looks ready for senior basketball and he is a severly limited guard, with iron hands and no court vision. A carrier of the bench who shoots 30% from the field and scores 5pts a game. C'mon let's be realistic. He was given a significant role, yet he delivered quite underwhelmingly.

            Saybir is my favorite player in Turkey and I think that kid has a great future if he works hard, gets stronger and a more versatile skillset. He can be somebody that can contribute on the senior level quite soon. Atar I always had problems with, because the kid is just an accelerant nothing more and as age catches up with him, he will get more and more exposed. For his height and frame he is actually a terrible rim protector, and at the same time has lazy feet defensively. Poor presentation in the PnR defense, even worse closeouts when helping etc. He is a magnet inside the paint offensively because of his size and solid post play, but he gives up so much more on the defensive side. He is also constantly backed down by inferior big men, who are smaller. Also I hate his mental make up, I don't see an ounce of toughness and aggression in that kid, which is always a bad sign.

            Overall, I closely follows most of the youth tournaments because I work with kids (14-16 age group) for years now. I don't see what you see, perhaps because I am more objective when it comes to Turkey. Still, I se no real basketball reasons for this Turkey team to be included among the hot favorites for this tournament. I would put them in the 6-8 range, with an outside chance for a medal with a good run.

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            • #21
              Once again you talk about things you know little of. Like accusing me of not knowing a lot about the youth setup.
              OK, it was apparently me who was too quick with judging. You gave a good overview of the weaknesses of the player but some of the parts i want to comment if you allow.

              Akay? Serious role of 10minutes a game in a team that was basically cannon fodder? And still hasn't seen the court in 3/4 of the games? Great PG with a negative AST/TO rate? Cmon, lets be serious. You are seriously overrating the kid.
              He played in an euroleague team despite being badly formed. He is not playing in estonia like velicka for example. He has weaknesses shooting, finishing at the rim for example but also great skills as point guard. Passing and court vision. He is a good pick and roll weapon and from what i saw at least one of the 3-4 guards in this tournament. His inconsistency is a problem though. What his future will be is a different story. For a country who played with Ender Arslan as a guard or Dogus Balbay and Kartal Özmizrak now he is definitely an upgrade and has a good work ethic.

              Bitim is probably the most overrated prospect in youth basketball in the last decade, along with few other guys. Are we even going to talk about his downfall as a prospect as he progresses through the ranks. Since his U16 campaign, he has been in constant downfall. Are we going even to mention his last year's campaign with your NT in the U20s? Once again, look at basketball in more objective way.
              After Albert Schweizer he had a downfall thats true. He has great problems to make the right choises and forces positions too much. One reason is that he hardly played in the last 2 seasons but he is still the best talent in this tournament referring to pace and athleticism. He can disappear of course but also take basketball seriously again. We must wait his reaction after being waived of Efes.

              Hazar is the only guy who looks ready for senior basketball and he is a severly limited guard, with iron hands and no court vision. A carrier of the bench who shoots 30% from the field and scores 5pts a game. C'mon let's be realistic. He was given a significant role, yet he delivered quite underwhelmingly.
              Yeah he has iron hands but shooting is improvable.Shooting looks not that bad. His problem right now is a lack of strength and i dont agree with no court vision. He showed enough to me to deny that part.

              Saybir is my favorite player in Turkey and I think that kid has a great future if he works hard, gets stronger and a more versatile skillset. He can be somebody that can contribute on the senior level quite soon.
              He developed from a non shooter to a clear shooter but he is an injury prone. Well see

              For his height and frame he is actually a terrible rim protector, and at the same time has lazy feet defensively. Poor presentation in the PnR defense, even worse closeouts when helping etc. He is a magnet inside the paint offensively because of his size and solid post play, but he gives up so much more on the defensive side. He is also constantly backed down by inferior big men, who are smaller. Also I hate his mental make up, I don't see an ounce of toughness and aggression in that kid, which is always a bad sign.
              OK, nice good description i cant deny that part. He is unfortunately the best what we have right now at that age.

              Overall, I closely follows most of the youth tournaments because I work with kids (14-16 age group) for years now.
              Me too

              I don't see what you see, perhaps because I am more objective when it comes to Turkey. Still, I se no real basketball reasons for this Turkey team to be included among the hot favorites for this tournament
              Maybe but i dont really think that i am biased in a certain form. I still maintain my position since i havent seen clearly better teams right now. Tbh I dont care about this tournament rankingwise since it means nothing for the senior level. I saw too many talents failing after having played great youth tournaments. Another point is the difficulty to describe myself properly in english.

              I would put them in the 6-8 range, with an outside chance for a medal with a good run.
              The future will tell.

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              • #22
                @Toruko

                Yeah CoachZ has always been up on the youth players and tournaments and has provided excellent insight.
                I give you a lot of credit you did the same with the Under 19 World Cup. For a guy like me who doesn’t follow that stuff that closely I loved the info and analysis.
                Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by usagre View Post
                  @Toruko

                  Yeah CoachZ has always been up on the youth players and tournaments and has provided excellent insight.
                  I give you a lot of credit you did the same with the Under 19 World Cup. For a guy like me who doesn’t follow that stuff that closely I loved the info and analysis.
                  Yeah i missjudged him obviously. Sorry for that.... Actually i want to do the same what he is doing in my hometown. Train with Kids...

                  It was a nice exchange indeed.

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                  • #24
                    I was also wondering how we are one of the favorites, but I am happy to take it if it's anywhere near true. The claim will be tested very soon, so I don't see any reason for heated arguments, spilling over nationalities and relevant prejudices. let's enjoy the tournament.
                    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

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                    • #25
                      About game Serbia-Israel.Great atmosphere ,fullfiled arena . Main causes of final result were ,very bad shoots of Israel in first half,good shoots of Serbia ,Avdija fail, and fight in rim won Serbia .About Serbia ,same story like anyone youth competion any years in least ten years.Good rebound ,correct defense, decent level in any direction ,bad ball handling,many turnovers,slowly play,with all that somehow faceless ,play by template ,predictable. In this game we had great shoot and rebound in any other segment we had problem ,especially with quickness of Israel .They have generation who seems have a little less talent than last few years .Maybe,they didnt have a good day .Their talent dont match with their play,they cant to play so quickly.But again ,they have a potential include to struggle for medal . In Serbia Miskovic leaded ,Pecarski had importan contribution,in Israel Madar played excellent game .

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nemanja View Post
                        About game Serbia-Israel.Great atmosphere ,fullfiled arena . Main causes of final result were ,very bad shoots of Israel in first half,good shoots of Serbia ,Avdija fail, and fight in rim won Serbia .About Serbia ,same story like anyone youth competion any years in least ten years.Good rebound ,correct defense, decent level in any direction ,bad ball handling,many turnovers,slowly play,with all that somehow faceless ,play by template ,predictable. In this game we had great shoot and rebound in any other segment we had problem ,especially with quickness of Israel .They have generation who seems have a little less talent than last few years .Maybe,they didnt have a good day .Their talent dont match with their play,they cant to play so quickly.But again ,they have a potential include to struggle for medal . In Serbia Miskovic leaded ,Pecarski had importan contribution,in Israel Madar played excellent game .
                        Miskovic had an awful first half, then got it together and played really well. Pecarski was solid overall, despite being a year younger than everyone. Simovic had a very solid game, he was especially playing well when they switched him to PF in the second half. He has excellent potential as a stretch forward in the future, if he can get his temper under control. I love his aggression and motor.

                        The key player for the win was Uskokovic. He was nowhere to be found in the first half and then just exploded in the second and especially in the 4th QTR when 7 of his points were scored. He is key to us getting the most of our bigs in the rest of the tournament. He needs to be more consistent though. Take less shots until the offense gets going, then he will get more space to slash people up and play ISO which he likes.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Nemanja View Post
                          What I can conclude by squads,Spain and Lithuania have better players than Serbia .
                          We don't have a good roster, you understimate your team. Maybe our chemistry and defense are not bad (this generation got 3 medals of 3 possible in the past years) - it will be seen against tougher teams.

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                          • #28
                            I'm watching Turkey - Montenegro now, but will catch up on Lith game after that and write up some things.

                            First QTR of Turkey - Montenegro is quite painful to watch. Some things will never be clear to me, like the insistence of Turkey to play zone defense across youth teams, which they obviously have difficult playing and understanding. It has been the downfall of many of their teams. Bitim has opened a game very well, but he is an Uncle Drew commercial that plays outside of team offense. He has 13 out of 17 Turkey points in the 1st QTR. Atar is having a terrible game so far, both defensively and offensively. Montenegro seems to play with more IQ but it is a team very, very low on actual talent. Guys like Slavkovic, Popovic, Cepic are far from what you call solid prospects. Only Marko Simonovic can be considered a guy with significant upside in that team.

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                            • #29
                              I think this Turkey team works much better without Bitim. Yes he is the leading scorer of this game but he also kills the ball movement, makes selfish decisions and mistakes. I love Mustafa's game so far in this one. He was quite useful on the both sides of the floor.

                              On the other hand, Montenegro guard play is just plain awful. Extremely difficult to watch. Still, a close game although of low quality

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                              • #30
                                This Montenegro coach

                                In a close game, your kids are doing a solid job and had momentum on your side in the 3rd QTR, and you get 2 technicals? I hate guys like that. Fucking moron...

                                So what happens, from +4 you go to -6 in 2 minutes. Idiot...

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