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Thread: 2019 U20 European Championship

  1. #121
    Junior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Yeah your favorite team Greece ended up losing against Germany with 30 Points difference in the first ko-round. I said that my favorites are Germany, Spain and Turkey. That only confirms that I am right.
    I had a hard time believing someone could put this Greek team as a tournament favorite but he had indeed predicted this lmao. It seems indeed that your prediction was more spot on, we have faced Spain with this generation in the semi finals twice, we won once and Spain won once. This generation has always competed with the top and always fell just a little short, just like yesterday. A 1 point defeat to Spain is really nothing to be sour about, we Turks know we are not a “6-8” team, and I think our team proved that. Let this Serbian Göksenin think whatever he wants :P.

  2. #122
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    The biggest drawback for our team was Atar's performance throughout the tournament. By being a non-existent factor on defense, it is really hard to project where his senior level career will end up. His offensive arsenal can lead him to attach some average teams from our league, however if we talk about the possibility of him being an elite player, it is so clear to me that this is not gonna happen unless he focuses on his basketball much more than now, puts on positive attitude on court instead whining all the time, improve his defensive stock and not shrinking from physical contact to polish his offensive talents aswell. With his current presence on court, I just don't stand any chance to him in senior level basketball where defensive mistakes are costlier than youth basketball and you can't make those mistakes consistently if you want to remain in a competitive team.

    Also, one thing gets to me is unnecessary hyping on Akay just because he had a good season in development league against one year younger players and played in senior team in very limited minutes. I do like his organization skills, his composure is something you can't see in most of young players, but labeling him as a high-profile prospect doesn't sound a realistic approach to me. His ball-handling skill is obviously not enough to make difference, his first-step is not quick, shooting is very problematic and he is not even creative. Farther, his As/To ratio tells a lot of thing about his potential. He may end up as a good player, I really hope this so much, but hyping him too much doesn't do anything good to him. He has still a long way to go to be evaluated as a good prospect from neutral view.

    The positive performance of our team has been delivered by Hazer who didn't start the tournament well at first. He nicely and consistently increased his performance right after first two games. I await his next two performances impatiently even though the intensity of qualification games are lower than the SF and Final games. He is the most senior-ready player from this team. He can be a real gun for type of coaches who love their teams to run like there is no tomorrow. His efficiency drops on set offenses, but at least he doesn't hide himself at some corners on court and being active no matter what. His defensive intensity, energy and feel for the game will make a room for him in upper level. This is going to be a very important season for him with sufficient role in Bandırma.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

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  3. #123
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    On game Israel Lithuania .Israel uses great atmosphere which create their supporters ,what is for all praises ,in youth competition,such devotion is surprising .Israel play in quick pace ,additionaly supported by their supporters,they get more inspiration, Avdija and Madar have most important roles in the team ,have controll the play .Others doesnt show big talent ,but play solid ,appropriate ,some of them glares.This generations is little a less talented than generation which 18` won tournament or 17`but presents good continuity ,and of course raising gigant in European basketball .

    Lithuania is one of the better teams on tournament.They didnt have a luck ,because with first place in group play with Israel in quarter-final .Psychologically aspect was important,so young players didnt have such experience ,playing in full arena in ardent atmosphere ,against good opponent .Maybe ,Lithuania has better team than Israel ,play in high pace with many amplitudes,where Israel broke Lithuania in third quarter .Maybe,Lithuania reached for the rest,but in this circumstance was very hard . Lithuania has good practiced players, with good physical abilities, Lithuanias is on of the first team on tournament by drives, and that with full steps ,Also ,solid shoot they have .Uleckas is yet on senior level ,many other players which dont have big talent but are many others abilities with could make good carreer ,some of them ,Velicka before others .

  4. #124
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    Also, one thing gets to me is unnecessary hyping on Akay just because he had a good season in development league against one year younger players and played in senior team in very limited minutes. I do like his organization skills, his composure is something you can't see in most of young players, but labeling him as a high-profile prospect doesn't sound a realistic approach to me. His ball-handling skill is obviously not enough to make difference, his first-step is not quick, shooting is very problematic and he is not even creative. Farther, his As/To ratio tells a lot of thing about his potential. He may end up as a good player, I really hope this so much, but hyping him too much doesn't do anything good to him. He has still a long way to go to be evaluated as a good prospect from neutral view.
    I agree with the most of your post but i want to comment this part a bit. Its clear that he is not a scoring pg. Driving as well as shooting is still a problem but in terms of being creative he was not able to show his pick and roll play. Passing is his only elite weapon and he needs a good big for that. Since Atar was not existent he was unfortunately not able to show his abilities. Nobody called him an elite prospect but thats also not what we need. We need a guy who can let play. I liked his defense.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Turkey is a tough team, but this spanish generation seems to be really promising. Great win although our star played bad, but the other player where there to fill Alocén's bad day.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    Thank you, TfG, for the analysis. I can only follow these kids in summer tournaments, and that is with an uneducated eye. My pessimism comes from not from the performance of players, but from our notorious track record of wasting them at senior levels.

    I used to say this, we do not even have a B-level scorers right now. players like Bekir Yarangume, Baris Ozcan, Erdal Bibo, Semsettin Bas, etc who could produce 15-20ppg in the league but would not have been called to NT, barring exceptional cases.
    Expections about this tournament and not about the developement of the players. Never ever has France a better roster as Turkey.

    Bekir Yarangüme, Baris Ozcan, Erdal Bibo, Semsettin Bas, those players played with 2-3-4(later with 5 but on the court with 3) foreigners, even i would make 10ppg

    None of these players was a high caliber player(icluding Levent Topsakal, later Ersin Görkem, Alper Yilmaz etc.), the best was the chaotic scorer Semsettin Bas but not high level player. These days probably Bekir Yarangüme would be the best and he would have a role like Erkan Veyseloglu. Baris Özcan is poor man´s Bugrahan Tuncer, he was always 2nd creator of midlevel teams, these days nobody would give him the ball.

    Even Ömer Onan couldn´t crack the rotation of Efes with 4 foreigners, therefore he went to Ülker. Kerem Tunceri was from 2001-2005 the worst PG on the planet but was S5 for both EL-teams, nowadays never ever possible.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurkfromGermany View Post
    Expections about this tournament and not about the developement of the players. Never ever has France a better roster as Turkey.

    Bekir Yarangüme, Baris Ozcan, Erdal Bibo, Semsettin Bas, those players played with 2-3-4(later with 5 but on the court with 3) foreigners, even i would make 10ppg

    None of these players was a high caliber player(icluding Levent Topsakal, later Ersin Görkem, Alper Yilmaz etc.), the best was the chaotic scorer Semsettin Bas but not high level player. These days probably Bekir Yarangüme would be the best and he would have a role like Erkan Veyseloglu. Baris Özcan is poor man´s Bugrahan Tuncer, he was always 2nd creator of midlevel teams, these days nobody would give him the ball.

    Even Ömer Onan couldn´t crack the rotation of Efes with 4 foreigners, therefore he went to Ülker. Kerem Tunceri was from 2001-2005 the worst PG on the planet but was S5 for both EL-teams, nowadays never ever possible.
    Also Cenk Akyol, he used to be a nice player, I don't remember about his defensive intensity though, then he...disappeared and almost forgot about him, then I noticed that last years he is playing in turkish 2nd division with big numbers, isn't it a bit weird, how comes he didn't get any interest from BSL clubs, even weaker ones?? A similar case I can think of is Stefano Mancineli who if I remember right stayed with Fortitudo after their relegation and played in the lower divisions of italian bball last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemanja View Post
    On game Israel Lithuania .Israel uses great atmosphere which create their supporters ,what is for all praises ,in youth competition,such devotion is surprising .
    In Israel we love sports, but we do not have any success in recent years. Our football teams underperforming recently, all basketball teams in all competitions get bad results in recent years, and the national basketball team got the lowest EuroBasket place ever.

    So we are just looking for something to cheer about, and this team is Israeli, talented, plays hard and have everything we could have asked for.
    The ticket prices to the semi-final are expensive, and the demand is huge, tournament organizers wanted to move the game to an 11000 arena (which would have been sold out as well) but team management requested to continue to play at the same smaller arena.

  9. #129
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Yeah your favorite team Greece ended up losing against Germany with 30 Points difference in the first ko-round. I said that my favorites are Germany, Spain and Turkey. That only confirms that I am right.
    Where did I write that Greeks are favorites? Find me that post.

    I said after the second game in the groups that Spain and Greece have shown the most in the tournament up to that point.

    Still waiting for that pat on the back for the 6-8 prognosis. Take your time, I know it's a tough pill to swallow.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furkan Korkmaz View Post
    I had a hard time believing someone could put this Greek team as a tournament favorite but he had indeed predicted this lmao. It seems indeed that your prediction was more spot on, we have faced Spain with this generation in the semi finals twice, we won once and Spain won once. This generation has always competed with the top and always fell just a little short, just like yesterday. A 1 point defeat to Spain is really nothing to be sour about, we Turks know we are not a “6-8” team, and I think our team proved that. Let this Serbian Göksenin think whatever he wants :P.
    Read the posts newbie, before you open your mouth

    Hah, I guess the Turkish gang is always ready for this They even register on the forum to get in on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metec View Post
    In Israel we love sports, but we do not have any success in recent years. Our football teams underperforming recently, all basketball teams in all competitions get bad results in recent years, and the national basketball team got the lowest EuroBasket place ever.

    So we are just looking for something to cheer about, and this team is Israeli, talented, plays hard and have everything we could have asked for.
    The ticket prices to the semi-final are expensive, and the demand is huge, tournament organizers wanted to move the game to an 11000 arena (which would have been sold out as well) but team management requested to continue to play at the same smaller arena.
    In Serbia basketball and water polo are most successfull sportrs and only succesfull ,but football is preetty more popular .Euro u21 in football broadcasted on national tv ,I dont know what percent of people knows that this torunament playing .But is in Serbia nearly high popularity of basketball ,in comparision with other countries ,but even so in Serbia ,real basketball devotee are maybe 50000 men .Like you said ,matter is success ,before than really basketball passion .I m interested ,for example ,what is percentage of people who watch Euroleague quarter-finals when doesnt play club from their country ? Basketball isnt massive sport,and that have some advantages,so problem is additional when leading mens from European organizations try to make basketball more commercial and popular ,Its mistake by steps .

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Read the posts newbie, before you open your mouth

    Hah, I guess the Turkish gang is always ready for this They even register on the forum to get in on this.
    Sorry bro, I respect you but the fact that Turkey lost by one point against strong Spain doesn't say they absolutely belong to the 5-8 spots, it could go either ways, I think it's just common sense and I don't get it why you felt so much justified by that, if you had bet on that then you were lucky and I get your excitement

  13. #133
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_black_planet View Post
    Sorry bro, I respect you but the fact that Turkey lost by one point against strong Spain doesn't say they absolutely belong to the 5-8 spots, it could go either ways, I think it's just common sense and I don't get it why you felt so much justified by that, if you had bet on that then you were lucky and I get your excitement
    It's basketball. They also could've lost to Italy before that and never made it to Spain. I never felt that they were a medal team, and I mentioned that at the beginning of the tournament. This was just a bit of fun versus the crew that went postal on me when I said that.

    Also, the money wasn't that good to be honest. I bet on Italy in H vs Turkey, that got me a decent profit to waste on sneakers and tequilla

  14. #134
    Junior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Read the posts newbie, before you open your mouth

    Hah, I guess the Turkish gang is always ready for this They even register on the forum to get in on this.
    Oh dear, you are not very constructive in the way you express your point of view, I find your lack of reasoning a little disturbing. Look Göksenin, I hate having to repeat myself, [---]. This generation has bronze at the u16 of 2015, silver at the u17 of 2016, missed silver by 2 points in the u18 of 2017 and ended 5th by being eliminated to the host in the u20 2018, and now have missed out on the semi finals by merely a point against a team you described as most impressive (and they are indeed).

    Aside from Gultekin and 2015 Bitim this generation is not the most flashy, not by a long shot, but as you can see from the past and current results it is absurd to place them as low as 8. 8? Other than your one u18 gold we have structurally performed better than you and almost every other team. Had Atar not been such a let-down I could argue we could go all the way for a gold medal. Allright maybe you forsaw our flaws, maybe we were a little too optimistic, but 8 is simply a criminally wrong prediction (just like all your other predictions, don’t worry I have been following this thread from the start). As if our team proving you wrong wasn’t enough you were delusional enough to ask for a pat on your back and claim you were spot on. Spot on how? Everything you have been saying has been off. This Turkish team was a 3-5 team (and we can still end 5th) and that’s only because of Atar and Saybir being such letdowns. You provoke Turks like me with your messages, I’m a “newbie” because I don’t feel the need to actively participate in these forums, but it doesn’t mean I don’t read what’s going on. Come to think of it I’d rather say nothing at all than come with unconstructive fallacies like “Turkish gang” and “newbie”. Try to be a little more eloquent with me coach, I’m not an easy guy. Have a good day Göksenin :-).
    Last edited by Levenspiel; 07-21-2019 at 11:37 AM.

  15. #135
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    @Furkan

    Congrats for the history lesson and a good ol' try, but let's stick to the facts:

    - I have precisely said this: "Still, I see no real basketball reasons for this Turkey team to be included among the hot favorites for this tournament. I would put them in the 6-8 range, with an outside chance for a medal with a good run." This is the exact quote. Not my fault that some posters find this insulting. It is my opinion and it turns out that it is quite close to what actually happened in the tournament. Yes, you might finish 5th, but again my prediction would've been much closer to the truth, than the stories of favorites for the tournament. I even gave you an outside chance for a medal, but I guess that was not enough for several of you

    - You base your argument on what-ifs and maybes. If Atar was better, if we scored this 2 points etc. This is basketball, you either get it done or you don't. I didn't think you would be able to do it. What is so wrong about that?

    - The classic switcharoo is, of course, the argument about the Serbian team. I know this generation is shit and I have extensively written about that all the way through the tournament. So, suddenly you are basing your argument on comparing results to an inferior generation and team? The funniest part is that even this weak generation has managed to go all the way in at least one tournament, which Turkey didn't. Also, it is highly recommended for your mental health to avoid any discussion involving Serbia and Turkey in terms of medals, in any category.

    - The way kids develop is not a linear path. The fact that a team was good at U16 and U17, doesn't give you a good overview of how that team will look in a few years when kids are older. My prediction was purely based that this team has ridden the Atar and Bitim accelerant wave since the U16. The edge is gone and the ability to dominate games is gone with it. Kids develop differently and as soon as other kids had a chance to catch up physically, the whole team looks completely different. Take for example Miskovic in Serbia. He was quite dominant in that U18 win, playing incredibly well, while at this tournament he was completely exposed. Other kids just exploded in the tournament.

    - What other predictions? I have only made a single prediction for this tournament. Please find me the posts where I am predicting anything else. I only made a comment that after the first two games, Spain and Greece showed the most, with a detailed note of Greek deficiencies (which btw cost them later on). So, if you want to make an argument, please support it by facts, not wishful thinking.

    - For the end, the talk about the Newbie comment. I or anyone else for that matter had no idea you are following the forum. So, you expect me to address you differently for something I couldn't possibly know? If someone attacks you with a wall of text in his first post on the forum, tell me what is the reaction you are expecting? I am curious to know.

    Finally, on the lighter note, I am happy that Goksenin is catching on. I love that clown that pretends to be a basketball player, it's an inside joke between me and some forum guys from the past. The same goes with Yagmur and his infamous Kofta Shake move

  16. #136
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    Finally, on the lighter note, I am happy that Goksenin is catching on. I love that clown that pretends to be a basketball player, it's an inside joke between me and some forum guys from the past. The same goes with Yagmur and his infamous Kofta Shake move
    Göksenin Köksal, Birkan Batuk and Sertac Sanli are our shame. They should never be counted as basketball player.
    Last edited by Toruko; 07-19-2019 at 11:47 PM.

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    I remembered a fat Turkish guy Duran playing in this team - does he still play basketball?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    I remembered a fat Turkish guy Duran playing in this team - does he still play basketball?
    I think he was added to Fenerbahce senior team to practice and develop but has been let go this offseason...

  19. #139
    Junior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    I remembered a fat Turkish guy Duran playing in this team - does he still play basketball?
    He plays in the second league, his team was in the playoffs for promotion to the first. Very physical guy. He had a big contribution in the u16 and u17 medals we got, but hasn’t played ever since due to injuries. I don’t know why he didn’t show up this time, becasue as far as I know this time he was healthy. We could have definitely used him.

  20. #140
    Junior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Ok Göksenin one last time and I’m closing this subject.

    Firstly you should read better, this current rank I gave wasn’t based on the past, in the past we’d actually be a 1-3 catehory team, I think that’s clear. If we would take out our calculators and see the avarage rank for each country over all youth branches with this particular generation I would say Spain Lithuania and Turkey are by far the most consistent teams. Turkey has only not made the top 5 once, the debut u18 when the guys were 1 year younger and the team missed Bitim and Duran who at that time were too important (we missed them more often but their significance had decreased by then). I have not targeted Serbia with a “switcheroo” I just pointed out that we had structurally performed better than you AND almost every other team - and all this while having never played without guys missing. Atar being bad made us 3-5, not 6-8, him being good I would have put us right back at 1-3. And remember this is about category, not actual ranking. Although tempting I would also give you this much credit to not put you in the 13-16 category where you currently are . And no, I have done my best to keep Serbia out of it because we were discussing about Turkey, so don’t come with these terms like “switcheroo”. As for linear development, yes they didnt but that’s where guys like Hazer and Akay who were not even in the shadow of Bitim in the past have surpassed my expectations. Even with a bad Atar this team is not 6-8, nobody who claims to understand basketball can tell me this. Last but not least, Göksenin may be a joke but your predicting skills are no better than his basketball skills. . See you at the u18. You’re in our group and I am looking forward to it.

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