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Thread: 2019 FIBA World Cup Draw [Shenzhen, China, Mar 16]

  1. #41
    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    @ Straight Forward. Fiba experience isn’t as important as it was years ago. Nba game and Fiba closest in style that it has ever been. Give me the talent and athleticism of a Jamal Murray/ Corey Joseph duo over Sloukas/ Calathes any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And if Giannis doesn’t show and the Canadian stars do, there is a huge disparity in the wings and bigs of the two teams in Canada’s favor.

    I’ll be honest what worries me the most about Canada is not their roster composition but their coach. It seems like he has a lifetime job.
    Short of injury or winning the Championship(even then) he's probably showing up. He's said as much.
    Canada is banking on it's NBA talent showing up as well and frankly it's just as much in the air. We won't really start to get an idea of who is likely to do what until the playoffs are set. And that goes for any team that relies heavily on NBA talent not the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Greece still has elite backourt with Calathes and Sloukas. This due is ahead in terms of IQ, FIBA experience and overall quality than most teams starting guards including Canada.
    Calathes and Sloukas is a better back court than Cory Joseph and Jamal Murray? There are 30 NBA GMs that would disagree with that. I know FIBA is a different game...but not that different.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Obina's Avatar
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    Really stupid draw but it's just a FIBA.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post

    I’ll be honest what worries me the most about Canada is not their roster composition but their coach. It seems like he has a lifetime job.

    The coach is actually undecided and up in the air.
    Rowan Barrett (RJ's dad) was recently promoted to GM from Asst. GM and Steve Nash officially stepped aside. Nash really never did anything in the last 4-5 years except keep Jay Triano's job secure. Rowan has come out and said first order of business is to select a new coach. This late I doubt they go outside the system (but said they would consider it) so it will likely be Roy Rana who has led the team through the qualifiers and won the u19 Gold. Maybe Dave Smart is the other viable candidate (current asst. and Carlton head coach).It could still be Triano , but I am doubtful and think his time is done with Nash's departure (good riddance)
    Things are changing with Canada Basketball for the better.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    @ Straight Forward. Fiba experience isn’t as important as it was years ago. Nba game and Fiba closest in style that it has ever been. Give me the talent and athleticism of a Jamal Murray/ Corey Joseph duo over Sloukas/ Calathes any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And if Giannis doesn’t show and the Canadian stars do, there is a huge disparity in the wings and bigs of the two teams in Canada’s favor.
    Why it isn't important any more aside the most obvious fact that NBA leaned to shoot threes and that's latest trend? The court is tighter. There's no three second defensive rule in FIBA, so you can bight your opponent and never let it go. I understand perspective, to you Joseph is a quality role NBA player (and I like him more between these 2) and Murray is a good scorer for one of the best teams in NBA. But from my perspective, we speak about Euroleague's ELITE. Calatches is the most gifted passer in Europe right now maybe along with Teodosic, but the first is better now, IMO. Sloukas is a great scorer who is surely way better passer than say Murray who won't dropping midrange jumpers or threes as comfortable as in NBA. To me it's really close, but I would go with elite Euroleage's players at this point. As for other positions, Greece is not deep and maybe not even talented enough here and there, I agree on this, but I also not sold on Canada as packed and ready project to contend just looking at names. Let's wait for their first real test first and see if they are ready.


    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Lithuanian backcourt worries me. It has been weak in other tournaments and overcome to a degree by Lithuania but with increased importance of guards and wings and decreased importance of bigs I think this hurts Lithuania immensely.
    I understand you. Looking from oversees it's a land of no names and even the deserts, but the situation is on sharp improvement mode. You have to be very familiar with EL to notice that though. FOA, our best guards of 10's Kalnietis and Seibutis hasn't declined much if any (now they are not best, they are veterans). Both are playing well at the solid level in Europe. Second, Lekavicius had a brake out season with Zalgiris few seasons ago under Jasikevicius (borderline playoffs team) and now is a role player PAO. We missed him badly both in 2016 and specially 2017. And most importantly, Marius Grigonis is prevailing as one of the key players in Zalgiris (again, bordeline PO team this season). He brings hustle, scoring, creativity. Not to mention that we might use athletic wing Giedraitis at 2 who is lighting up Eurocup with one of top teams this season. If we will have that, it will be tremendous improvement compared to 2017, both offensively and defensively (especially). Not an elite backourt, yes, but better than you probably think. We won't be us vulnerable against good backourts because Lekavicius, Seibutis and Grigonis brings an A defensive effort. Our positions three-five are elite, IMO.
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    @Mojo13. Thanks for info I was unaware of Triano’s status. Yeah I think it’s time for a change.

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    @ Straight Forward. Kalnietis and Seibutis are gonna be 33 and 34 years old during the tournament.
    That has to be worrisome.

    Corey Joseph is no stranger to FIBA tournaments and has played well. You are definitely underrating the scoring ability of Jamal Murray. He is one of those players whose talent can translate on any level.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    @ Straight Forward. Kalnietis and Seibutis are gonna be 33 and 34 years old during the tournament.
    That has to be worrisome.

    Corey Joseph is no stranger to FIBA tournaments and has played well. You are definitely underrating the scoring ability of Jamal Murray. He is one of those players whose talent can translate on any level.
    The only worrisome thing is that our coach is weak and inexperienced. He might very well overuse both these veterans at the group stage to reduce out chances in the PO. Other than that both should be fine with adequate rotation and they will be super useful in PO. Gutsy, fairless veteran (not a washed out veteran) leadership.

    FIBA tournaments...which ones? I mean Canada is yet to play a real deal knock out stage game in their life right? I'm not counting FIBA America as real deal tournament. USA (with some kind of roster) and washed out Brazil, Argentina. It will be different here. This WC is probably first b/-A FIBA tournament Canada ever will play. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know Murray drops 18pts in NBA for an elite club, but it surely won't be easy against elite FIBA teams. We'll see.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 03-15-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Obviously China is a poor #1 seed but in my opinion, Argentina is weak, Greece without Giannis (a serious possibility) is weak, and Lithuania is a serious cut below France, Spain, Serbia and the USA. So if teams like Canada and Australia(if they are not grouped together) send their best possible players they are de facto #1 seed quality teams.
    Well, Argentina is not what they used to be, but they are not weak. Old Scola still has a good level, Campazzo is one of the best PG in the Euroleague, Laprovittola is at the moment ACB's MVP, or Deck, who is playing valuable time at RM. Not Ginobili, Nocioni, Herrmann or Oberto, but still a QF team for me.

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    Cory Joseph was good against France, Turkey and New Zealand in 2016 Olympic qualifying tournament. And there he had to carry both playmaking and scoring responsibilities. He most likely won’t have such a burden this time around.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Cory Joseph was good against France, Turkey and New Zealand in 2016 Olympic qualifying tournament. And there he had to carry both playmaking and scoring responsibilities. He most likely won’t have such a burden this time around.
    I'm not saying Canada will suck. That's a heck of a names and I know you, and specially mojo can field plenty of other impressive names. Actually I would be looking at Pangos (but again, no way Pangos is at the level of Calathes, no way). Joseph is terrific NBA role player who used to feed Valanciunas in Raptors and now feeding Sabonis even better in Pacers. He is pretty good fit for FIBA. But exactly we talk about qualification, even if Olympic qualification tournament, or Fiba America-cup, those are not the same as to actually play in WC and Olympics. This will be a real test finally.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chacho View Post
    Well, Argentina is not what they used to be, but they are not weak. Old Scola still has a good level, Campazzo is one of the best PG in the Euroleague, Laprovittola is at the moment ACB's MVP, or Deck, who is playing valuable time at RM. Not Ginobili, Nocioni, Herrmann or Oberto, but still a QF team for me.
    Yeah they have some good players but I was comparing them to the other top seeds Serbia, Spain, France and USA. And I think in comparison they are weak.

  13. #53
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    there seems to be pages and pages of discussion from yesterday missing on multiple World Cup threads (at least from my perspective).

    Is this a normal thing here? Why would all that lively discussion and good content be removed? It this site run by FIBA?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    there seems to be pages and pages of discussion from yesterday missing on multiple World Cup threads (at least from my perspective).

    Is this a normal thing here? Why would all that lively discussion and good content be removed? It this site run by FIBA?
    There’ve clearly been ongoing technical issues with the site so I doubt it was intentional. There isn’t enough activity around here in general so it’s disappointing to see it ruined by such problems. Hope they get it figured out for good soon.

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    Technical issues! Please stand by...

  16. #56

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    @straightforward

    So, it is not so easy to score at the highest fiba level like in the NBA? You live in a phantasy world. Please, would you explain to everybody out here why the player that is playing in el changing to the NBA is losing 13 % in his shooting percentage? That is established over the last 18 years and the the truth high fiba level is shit in comparison to the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopscoop View Post
    @straightforward

    So, it is not so easy to score at the highest fiba level like in the NBA? You live in a phantasy world. Please, would you explain to everybody out here why the player that is playing in el changing to the NBA is losing 13 % in his shooting percentage? That is established over the last 18 years and the the truth high fiba level is shit in comparison to the league.
    FOA, if you want to be treated as serious poster you don't write "you live in phantasy world" specially with mistake in fantasy word. It's the same as to say "hello, I'm trash, but please discuss with me". Let it be a lesson for you. Second, it's not that simple. Europeans who go to NBA very often suffer due to lack of NBA culture knowledge, alien environment, different type of basketball, inconvenient role, unadjusted physicality. Also, in Euroleague there's plenty of much more disciplined teams and different basketball which are tolerating only "real shots" and "outworked shots", players are going for high % shots and shoot less. In NBA there much more freedom, much more shots and much more ISO action which leads to lower % shots. Also USA basketball players stats, specially in 00's would show that their % g down in FIBA games, specially in 2000- 2006 period. We need data here, but I'm pretty sure. Now NBA learned how to shoot, there was a transition in terms of a style and trend. Yet if we look at USA 2016 players, some players increased their shooting % some decreased playing in Olympics, it's not so one sided. Besides, most of them are NBA superstars.
    Lastly, I am advocating the arguments that Fiba courts are tighter and there's no three second defensive rule in FIBA, thus scoring at FIBA, specially playing against smart and elite European teams might be tougher. Besides, go and tell Doncic to stop living in a fantasy world. Here's his words:

    “Here [in the NBA] its easier to score compared to Europe, of course. In Europe, the court is smaller and here there is the three seconds rule. I think it’s easier to score here.”
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  18. #58
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    FOA, if you want to be treated as serious poster you don't write "you live in phantasy world" specially with mistake in fantasy word. It's the same as to say "hello, I'm trash, but please discuss with me". Let it be a lesson for you. Second, it's not that simple. Europeans who go to NBA very often suffer due to lack of NBA culture knowledge, alien environment, different type of basketball, inconvenient role, unadjusted physicality. Also, in Euroleague there's plenty of much more disciplined teams and different basketball which are tolerating only "real shots" and "outworked shots", players are going for high % shots and shoot less. In NBA there much more freedom, much more shots and much more ISO action which leads to lower % shots. Also USA basketball players stats, specially in 00's would show that their % g down in FIBA games, specially in 2000- 2006 period. We need data here, but I'm pretty sure. Now NBA learned how to shoot, there was a transition in terms of a style and trend. Yet if we look at USA 2016 players, some players increased their shooting % some decreased playing in Olympics, it's not so one sided. Besides, most of them are NBA superstars.
    Lastly, I am advocating the arguments that Fiba courts are tighter and there's no three second defensive rule in FIBA, thus scoring at FIBA, specially playing against smart and elite European teams might be tougher. Besides, go and tell Doncic to stop living in a fantasy world. Here's his words:

    “Here [in the NBA] its easier to score compared to Europe, of course. In Europe, the court is smaller and here there is the three seconds rule. I think it’s easier to score here.”
    It is easier to score in the NBA if you are a talented and able scorer like Doncic. Especially if you are playing for a team like Real Madrid. It's very hard to score 20+ points on average for a talented team like Real Madrid. It's also very hard to score 20+ ponts on average for a top international team.
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    The fact that the games are shorter in Fiba by 8 minutes should be considered as well. Averaging 18 points in the Nba is proportional to averaging 15 in a Fiba game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    The fact that the games are shorter in Fiba by 8 minutes should be considered as well. Averaging 18 points in the Nba is proportional to averaging 15 in a Fiba game.
    That plus the distribution of talent on a European team is more equal than on an NBA team, since the top end players are in the NBA and there's no salary cap or draft preventing teams from stockpiling talent. So the playing time is shared more evenly and the usage is more even between the players on the floor.
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