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Thread: 2019 FIBA World Cup Draw [Shenzhen, China, Mar 16]

  1. #61
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    there seems to be pages and pages of discussion from yesterday missing on multiple World Cup threads (at least from my perspective).

    Is this a normal thing here? Why would all that lively discussion and good content be removed? It this site run by FIBA?
    As an admin, I was not aware of that, but I see what you mean. Definitely nothing intentional, nothing shows up on mod log. Let me see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    As an admin, I was not aware of that, but I see what you mean. Definitely nothing intentional, nothing shows up on mod log. Let me see.
    Yep, that was really disappointing. In one of the topics me and usagre kinda strayed off-topic with my favourite "Europe is Gonzaga/Villanova to NBA's Duke" point but I rarely wrote so much on these boards in a year or even more and most of my posts (including my own FIBA WC power rankings and a long post on details of perspective Canadian roster) were of a kind I'm sad to see "disappeared".
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    @Terrorizer.

    Yeah it sucks it was a great back and forth. I disagree with a lot of your points but always welcome hearing them.
    The administrator said that they had technical difficulties that day and lost a lot of posts and all attempts to retrieve them were unsuccessful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorizer View Post
    Yep, that was really disappointing. In one of the topics me and usagre kinda strayed off-topic with my favourite "Europe is Gonzaga/Villanova to NBA's Duke" point but I rarely wrote so much on these boards in a year or even more and most of my posts (including my own FIBA WC power rankings and a long post on details of perspective Canadian roster) were of a kind I'm sad to see "disappeared".
    I guess I wasn't the only one with missing threads. #glitchkilledmythoughts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorizer View Post
    Yep, that was really disappointing. In one of the topics me and usagre kinda strayed off-topic with my favourite "Europe is Gonzaga/Villanova to NBA's Duke" point but I rarely wrote so much on these boards in a year or even more and most of my posts (including my own FIBA WC power rankings and a long post on Brazzers Youporn Xhamsterdetails of perspective Canadian roster) were of a kind I'm sad to see "disappeared".
    The problem is that if China as the host is considered the top overall seed then using this principle the United States and Serbia or Spain will be on the same side and China will be grouped with the other. That makes the Chinese side very weak. But then again no matter how you potentially break up a bracket history has shown us that teams manipulate it by tanking games in order to place themselves in a desired side of the bracket.

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    Spain tanks at almost every tournament in the group and that half of the bracket might bring many more unpredictable results when groups C and D merge compared to the half where team USA has been drawn. Italy and Serbia will fight tooth and nail for the 1st place in their preliminary group since Spain will almost certainly beat all three opponents in group C and whoever of these 3 teams ends up in the QF they have a great chance to advance to SF since they will be playing most likely against Argentina and Russia. Assuming that USA goes through to QF from Shenzhen K group as K1 and Greece most likely as K2 I see Team USA advancing to the semis regardless who they play in the QF, and the K2 vs L1 game - Greece vs France (or Greece vs one of the 3 teams from the "group of death" 'H') will be a very interesting game to see...personally I would love to see USA vs Spain, and Serbia vs Greece semifinal games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by micko View Post
    Spain tanks at almost every tournament in the group and that half of the bracket might bring many more unpredictable results when groups C and D merge compared to the half where team USA has been drawn. Italy and Serbia will fight tooth and nail for the 1st place in their preliminary group since Spain will almost certainly beat all three opponents in group C and whoever of these 3 teams ends up in the QF they have a great chance to advance to SF since they will be playing most likely against Argentina and Russia. Assuming that USA goes through to QF from Shenzhen K group as K1 and Greece most likely as K2 I see Team USA advancing to the semis regardless who they play in the QF, and the K2 vs L1 game - Greece vs France (or Greece vs one of the 3 teams from the "group of death" 'H') will be a very interesting game to see...personally I would love to see USA vs Spain, and Serbia vs Greece semifinal games.


    I think your semi-finals are simply inconceivable because the US is likely to meet with Serbia, and Greece is also a small chance of winning against France and the leaders of the H "group of death", and if Greece is successful anyway in the semifinals, Spain would wait.

    If the second team from the H group, according to the miserable schedule, to the semi-finals should not meet the US, we could actually see two teams from the H group between the medals.

    Regrettable schedule: when you see Group A, where there are no teams claiming even to the 1/8 finals, and the H group where 3 teams actually qualify for medals and the strongest African team.
    Last edited by G&B; 06-06-2019 at 08:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    I think your semi-finals are simply inconceivable because the US is likely to meet with Serbia.
    Why is that ? If they win their respective groups in both rounds then they would be in opposite brackets until the final.
    And in my judgement a full strength Serbia is the second best team out there so it is more likely they wouldn’t meet in the semis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Why is that ? If they win their respective groups in both rounds then they would be in opposite brackets until the final.
    And in my judgement a full strength Serbia is the second best team out there so it is more likely they wouldn’t meet in the semis.
    Say it to Spain, and they will not understand you . Serbia has a great school, but according rosters it is not the second team in the tournament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    Say it to Spain, and they will not understand you . Serbia has a great school, but according rosters it is not the second team in the tournament.
    Really ? Teodosic, Jokic, Bogdanovic, Bjelica, Marjanovic, Mijic, Guduric,
    Kalinic, Jovic, Milutinov, Nedovic, Lucic. That’s the second best roster out there.
    They outperformed Spain in ‘14 and ‘16 and Spain has gotten worse and Serbia has improved so I
    think it’s pretty clear now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    Regrettable schedule: when you see Group A, where there are no teams claiming even to the 1/8 finals, and the H group where 3 teams actually qualify for medals and the strongest African team.
    Nigeria isn't in Group H. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Really ? Teodosic, Jokic, Bogdanovic, Bjelica, Marjanovic, Mijic, Guduric,
    Kalinic, Jovic, Milutinov, Nedovic, Lucic. That’s the second best roster out there.
    They outperformed Spain in ‘14 and ‘16 and Spain has gotten worse and Serbia has improved so I
    think it’s pretty clear now.
    If you look closely. There are only 6 really good players on that Serbian rooster. I did not include Teo since the man is out if shape. Spain however has twelve top players. Serbia has the third or fourth best rooster. France also has a better rooster.
    Last edited by Victorious; 06-24-2019 at 01:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    If you look closely. There are only 6 really good players on that Serbian rooster. I did not include Teo since the man is out if shape. Spain however has twelve top players. Serbia has the third or fourth best rooster. France also has a better rooster.
    I disagree. Firstly Jokic is better than anyone on both Spanish and French rosters. So having the top guy overall counts a lot. As for Spain list me these 12 “top” Spanish players and list their age at the time of tournament as well. Many people are stuck on Spain due to their excellent history, but no Pau is enormous and most of their other key pieces are really up there in age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    If you look closely. There are only 6 really good players on that Serbian rooster. I did not include Teo since the man is out if shape. Spain however has twelve top players. Serbia has the third or fourth best rooster. France also has a better rooster.
    Then Greece have tenth best roster This is one of the Serbian most complete rosters since 2001 maybe. All of the players are playing at the high competition level and they are very important to their clubs. We almost won last Eurobasket missing 5,6 players, this Serbian team is the top 3 team , especially with Jokic addition, he's the true NBA superstar now,I dont worry about Teodosic he dont need to be the main guy anymore , he can have a role off the bench 15 to 20 minutes. Micic,Jovic,Bogdanovic,Bjelica and Jokic, all can create for their teammates.

    Teodosic,Micic,Jovic
    Bogdanovic,Nedovic or Guduric and Milosavljevic(too bad for Todorovic injury)
    Kalinic,Lucic
    Bjelica,Jelovac maybe we could try to get in somebody younger here Miskovic or Simanic for the future sake also Jokic could alternate here , in some matchups
    Jokic,Milutinov ,Marjanovic ,I think Raduljica will get that spot eventually , because of his tenure under Djordjevic.
    Its a pretty deep squad , they have experience and success playing together. They should be in the contention for the finals.
    Last edited by Srle; 06-24-2019 at 10:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    I disagree. Firstly Jokic is better than anyone on both Spanish and French rosters. So having the top guy overall counts a lot. As for Spain list me these 12 “top” Spanish players and list their age at the time of tournament as well. Many people are stuck on Spain due to their excellent history, but no Pau is enormous and most of their other key pieces are really up there in age.
    Sure, Jovic is better than anyone on the Spanish rooster. But that said, Marc Gasol is not anyone to take lightly. Even at his age.

    Serbia is very strong in the center position. Jovic, Marjanovic, Milutinov are hard to handle. And then you have Bjelica and Bogdanovic. After that it becomes tricky. Teo is out of shape as I have stated. Micic was decent at Efes, but still not a top level player yet. Kalinic and Guduric ofcourse are decent, but they essentially shine in an Obradovic oiled team. Not exactly because of their unique talent. Also there is Nedovic and Lucic, once again, decent players. But the claim is made that this is the second best squad after the USA. Well, I think not. Spain's Euroleague players, Llull, Rodriguez, Fernandez and Claver are top notch players. Certainly better than the likes of Nedovic, Lucic, Kalinic, Micic. Then you have, excluing Pau, seven NBA players no less; Marc, Ibaka, Rubio, Mirotic, Abrinez and the two Hernangomez. On an overall basis there is more NBA talent in this team. So I argue that Spain has more NBA talent and better EL players overall. It is a superior rooster. Even though it is somewhat aged as you claim.
    Also France is not too far of from Serbia.
    Last edited by Victorious; 06-25-2019 at 10:07 PM.
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    @Victorious
    You can have either Ibaka or Mirotic not both. Fiba naturalization rules. That’s very important. Another thing to consider is that after the top 8 or so guys that get the serious minutes the relative strength of spots 9-12 is extremely overrated in importance in these tournaments. And like I said earlier the age factor is huge. Marc Gasol currently is not the same player as years ago, still solid but more of a role player. Rudy, Lull and Rodriguez as well at 34, 31 and 33 are not the same players from the glory days either. Spain is a notch below Serbia anyway you slice it in my opinion. France is better argument but even there Serbia is better.

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    I do not know how you measure the goodness of the teams, but personally I think that Serbia will not be among the TOP-4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    I do not know how you measure the goodness of the teams, but personally I think that Serbia will not be among the TOP-4.
    Brilliant!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    Then Greece have tenth best roster This is one of the Serbian most complete rosters since 2001 maybe. All of the players are playing at the high competition level and they are very important to their clubs. We almost won last Eurobasket missing 5,6 players, this Serbian team is the top 3 team , especially with Jokic addition, he's the true NBA superstar now,I dont worry about Teodosic he dont need to be the main guy anymore , he can have a role off the bench 15 to 20 minutes. Micic,Jovic,Bogdanovic,Bjelica and Jokic, all can create for their teammates.

    Teodosic,Micic,Jovic
    Bogdanovic,Nedovic or Guduric and Milosavljevic(too bad for Todorovic injury)
    Kalinic,Lucic
    Bjelica,Jelovac maybe we could try to get in somebody younger here Miskovic or Simanic for the future sake also Jokic could alternate here , in some matchups
    Jokic,Milutinov ,Marjanovic ,I think Raduljica will get that spot eventually , because of his tenure under Djordjevic.
    Its a pretty deep squad , they have experience and success playing together. They should be in the contention for the finals.
    In some previous tournaments Serbia had great results due to chemistry. They also have the same coach for many years. I never argued that Serbia can not beat Spain, or may even be considered the second best team in the tournament. But they do not have the second best rooster. There are multiple teams out there with more talent than Serbia. In this line of thought, Serbia having more talent around than previous years does not necessarily make them a better team than they were before. We will have to see how they glue together. But that's another issue and not related to the strength of their roster. Right now all we can do is judge the rosters on face value. Once the tournament starts we will have an indication of their true strength as the team chemistry will become obvious.
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    The Sportsbook I use is showing respect to Serbia as a clear second choice behind the United States. Probably a combination of their excellent recent results as well as their expected strength of their roster. For me it makes a lot of sense with Serbia’s key players (Jokic, Bogdanovic) getting better, while Spain’s are in decline. (No more Pau and Navarro, aging Rudy, Marc Gasol, Rodriguez)

    Here are the current odds I have

    USA -600
    Serbia +1000
    Spain. +1600
    France +2900
    Greece. +2900

    Top 5.

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