Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7151617
Results 321 to 338 of 338

Thread: 2019 FIBA World Cup - General Discussion Thread

  1. #321
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,608
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cojayar View Post
    The only mockery here is the one that you do of yourself.
    I hope that in a few years, when you reach adult age, this will change.
    You are out of your depth. It’s above your ahead. So I don’t expect you to understand.
    Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

  2. #322
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    73
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cojayar View Post
    Well. If any, Toronto benefited immensely of having Scariolo as assistant coach. Reaching the finals and winning the NBA for the first time.
    Give praise where praise is due.
    Actually this is spot on... The Raptors would have never passed over the 2nd round in the East if they weren't so much superior with their coaching team... If coaching was the other way around, the Bucks would have swept them out easy...

  3. #323
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    44
    Country: Argentina

    Default

    Since the first years of the new century, there was a dispute, between Argentina and Spain for the second best team in the world (USA is first, obviously).

    After this tourament, there is no doubt.

    ARG:
    2002 2°
    2004 1°
    2006 4°
    2008 3°
    2010 5°
    2012 4°
    2014 11°
    2016 8°
    2019 2°
    Average 4,5°

    SPA:
    2002 5°
    2004 7°
    2006 1°
    2008 2°
    2010 6°
    2012 2°
    2014 5°
    2016 3°
    2019 1°
    Average 3,5°

    USA:
    2002 6°
    2004 3°
    2006 3°
    2008 1°
    2010 1°
    2012 1°
    2014 1°
    2016 1°
    2019 7°
    Average 2,6°

    What you think?

  4. #324
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,608
    Country: United States

    Default

    Spain’s knockout games of Poland, Australia and Argentina obviously were not the strongest of obstacles but the way I look at is that their second round victory over Serbia was as good as a knockout game. Yes technically Argentina eliminated Serbia but I think half of the battle was already accomplished when Spain beat them in that game. Serbia was never the same after that game and could never recover. In other words I don’t regard Spain’s road to the title as extremely weak because they basically eliminated Serbia as well. Only Serbia didn’t know it at the time.
    Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

  5. #325
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    543
    Country: Spain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Spain’s knockout games of Poland, Australia and Argentina obviously were not the strongest of obstacles but the way I look at is that their second round victory over Serbia was as good as a knockout game. Yes technically Argentina eliminated Serbia but I think half of the battle was already accomplished when Spain beat them in that game. Serbia was never the same after that game and could never recover. In other words I don’t regard Spain’s road to the title as extremely weak because they basically eliminated Serbia as well. Only Serbia didn’t know it at the time.
    At least for me that win against Serbia was completely unexpected. I thought they were out of our reach, save for a titanic effort that I would rather spend on a real elimination game. They proved me wrong and
    I'm glad they did.

    Anyway, I think this WC was a bit of a fluke for Spain. I mean, surely we deserved it, but we weren't nearly as dominating as other champions. This title was up for grabs and decided by minor details. Serbia being the more talented team, suffered the same fate as us in 2014: one unexpected loss derailed their championship hopes. If they hadn't suffered injuries to Milosavljevic and Teodosic they likely wouldn't have arrived to China with such an unbalanced roster. And quite likely they would have found better solutions to beat Spain or at least Argentina.

    Same can be said about Australia, they clearly needed more depth and even with their current lineup were one free throw away from making it to the final game. France paid a very high price for eliminating Team USA. Had they beaten Australia in the second round, their path to the gold would have been much easier. Of all the teams in this World Cup, I think France was the better equipped to oust Spain. You could even make a case for Lithuania, which was a good shooter away from beating both Australia and France and could have finished much higher.

    Looking forward to the Olympics.

  6. #326
    Senior Member Tesla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    176
    Country: Bosnia Herzegovina

    Default

    Some very complimentary comments from Kobe about international basketball...

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...up/2310105001/

    "It's to the point now where us in the U.S. are going to win some, we're going lose some. And that's just how it goes," Bryant told ESPN.

    "It's not a matter of the rest of the world catching up to the U.S., it's that the rest of the world has been caught up for quite some time," Bryant said. "The days of the '92 Barcelona Dream Team are gone. They're over, so it's going to be tough."

    "You have to remember, on the (2008) 'Redeem Team' we needed a hell of a fourth quarter to beat Spain. That was a hell of a team we had. We still needed a real late push to beat Spain in that gold-medal match. So I say that to say, put the best players that you think are going to make the best U.S. team out on the floor, we are still going to have challenges. It's not going to be a cakewalk."

  7. #327
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,608
    Country: United States

    Default

    Great to see that spending this last year in the NBA Coach Scariolo has some new first hand appreciation of USA/NBA basketball. He commented that “I have tremendous respect for what team USA represents... I mean we have to be thankful to American basketball, to the NBA, to all those people who are leading basketball all over the world.” And he understands and is under no delusions that the Olympics as compared to the World Cup is a whole different ball game when it comes to team USA. “I can only say that it’s an honor to be above them in the final ranking but I expect them so strong next year.”
    He’s a class act and telling it like it is.
    Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

  8. #328
    Senior Member Tesla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    176
    Country: Bosnia Herzegovina

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Great to see that spending this last year in the NBA Coach Scariolo has some new first hand appreciation of USA/NBA basketball. He commented that “I have tremendous respect for what team USA represents... I mean we have to be thankful to American basketball, to the NBA, to all those people who are leading basketball all over the world.” And he understands and is under no delusions that the Olympics as compared to the World Cup is a whole different ball game when it comes to team USA. “I can only say that it’s an honor to be above them in the final ranking but I expect them so strong next year.”
    He’s a class act and telling it like it is.
    Well you've certainly been trying your best to denigrate the World Cup & talk up the Olympics. Definitely a stretch what you are going for here. I might be wrong about only the US valuing Olympic basketball more then anyone else, but I'm certain that the US values Olympic basketball more then anyone else values it. And I'm certain the US devalues the World Cup more then anyone else.

  9. #329
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,608
    Country: United States

    Default

    Not my intention at all. It’s just the reality of the situation. The Worlds is a secondary tournament to the Olympics. And yes a lot more secondary to the US than other countries but secondary nonetheless. I never claimed otherwise. I gave you the list of prominent non American players that have skipped it but have perfect attendance at the Olympics. I didn’t pull that out of thin air. The Scariolo quote was just that his quote. I put out there just to balance the narrative here at the forum because it’s too one sided.

    Our discussions in the past got nasty and that’s not my style so I regret the tone I took and I hope you feel the same. We can disagree on stuff but there’s no need for that nonsense.
    Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

  10. #330
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    1,445
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Well you've certainly been trying your best to denigrate the World Cup & talk up the Olympics. Definitely a stretch what you are going for here. I might be wrong about only the US valuing Olympic basketball more then anyone else, but I'm certain that the US values Olympic basketball more then anyone else values it. And I'm certain the US devalues the World Cup more then anyone else.
    The Olympic tournament is an older and frankly better tournament because it narrows down the 12 best national teams on the planet...none of this watered down mess we see at the World Cup. No mystery that Americans value it more than the WC, partly because our success in the event and partly for the aforementioned reasons above. If the US doesn't place the same priority on the WC as it does the Olympic tournament...SO WHAT. We don't speak for the international basketball community. Other countries can decide what's important for them...the Olympic title is our holy grail when it comes to international basketball. BTW other countries do value the Olympic title as much as the US does, and to suggest otherwise is baseless.

  11. #331
    Member Sykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Talavera de la Reina
    Posts
    43
    Country: Spain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy View Post
    The Olympic tournament is an older and frankly better tournament because it narrows down the 12 best national teams on the planet...none of this watered down mess we see at the World Cup. No mystery that Americans value it more than the WC, partly because our success in the event and partly for the aforementioned reasons above. If the US doesn't place the same priority on the WC as it does the Olympic tournament...SO WHAT. We don't speak for the international basketball community. Other countries can decide what's important for them...the Olympic title is our holy grail when it comes to international basketball. BTW other countries do value the Olympic title as much as the US does, and to suggest otherwise is baseless.
    Everybody kwows that, but by the time World cup were 16 teams ,tournament was as good as olympics and USA send 2nd teams there.
    Another thing is that Olympic basketball is one sport among a lot of sports, so it depends on how fanatic are you on it, some other people could see only as one medal between hundreds of disciplines.

  12. #332
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,434
    Country: Lithuania

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykes View Post
    Everybody kwows that, but by the time World cup were 16 teams ,tournament was as good as olympics and USA send 2nd teams there.
    It was good, cause it had all top players participating, except for USA in most of occasions. But since some 2006 the trend started with more and more players declining invitations and picking Olympics and pre-Olympics qualifiers (Eurobasket, FIBA Americas) as main event to represent NT. Bigger money, bigger career opportunities can be blamed, i.e. NBA became way more reachable even for average players, so it started the trend of wanting to rest, prepare for NBA debut, to work on weakeneses and etc. In 90s or especially earlier you could never hear such excuses or it was very rare case and a serious one to skip tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykes View Post
    Another thing is that Olympic basketball is one sport among a lot of sports, so it depends on how fanatic are you on it, some other people could see only as one medal between hundreds of disciplines.
    True. But in Olympics sports also has own hierarchy. Basketball is among the most popular. Overall it has no damage for basketball tournament, I think it even get more spotlight


  13. #333
    Member Sykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Talavera de la Reina
    Posts
    43
    Country: Spain

    Default

    I heard that Olympic tournament will change its format, changing the traditional 2 groups of 6 to 3 groups of 4 teams each.
    So 4 teams will be out after only 3 matches, and even the winner of tournament will play only 6 matches, instead of the traditional 8 matches.
    I understand FIBA less day by day, less matches, less emotion.
    Last edited by Sykes; 09-19-2019 at 07:17 AM.

  14. #334
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    543
    Country: Spain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykes View Post
    I heard that Olympic tournament will change its format, changing the traditional 2 groups of 6 to 3 groups of 4 teams each.
    So 4 teams will be out after only 3 matches, and even the winner of tournament will play only 6 matches, instead of the traditional 8 matches.
    I understand FIBA less day by day, less matches, less emotion.
    The first round in the Olympics was full of meaningless matches and jockeying for position (losing games on purpose). Glad they are addressing those issues.

  15. #335
    Member Sykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Talavera de la Reina
    Posts
    43
    Country: Spain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
    The first round in the Olympics was full of meaningless matches and jockeying for position (losing games on purpose). Glad they are addressing those issues.
    Maybe they could made better and more fair matches in knock out stage, as in Waterpolo, giving the 1st team an automatic berth to half final, involving 2nd and 3th teams in a quarterfinal.
    I think is a nonsense winning 5 matches in a row, and being eliminated by a team with only 2 wins.

  16. #336
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    44
    Country: Argentina

    Default

    Maybe those 5 wins was against weaker teams...
    If the 1 ranked team of one group loses against the 4 ranked team of the other group. It means 2 things: The 1 ranked team having a bad night or the group was weak.

  17. #337
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    543
    Country: Spain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juli_rc View Post
    Maybe those 5 wins was against weaker teams...
    If the 1 ranked team of one group loses against the 4 ranked team of the other group. It means 2 things: The 1 ranked team having a bad night or the group was weak.
    Spain, 2004. Both finalists came from Spain's group, so obviously it wasn't a weak one.

  18. #338
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    44
    Country: Argentina

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
    Spain, 2004. Both finalists came from Spain's group, so obviously it wasn't a weak one.
    I have a better example. In the WC 2014 SPA, BRA, FRA and SRB from group A defeat GRE, CRO, ARG and SEN from group B. So clearly a SRB team with 2-3 was a better team than GRE with a record of with 4-1.

    So, my point is that the draw, could put 4 good teams in the same group. So a good team with heavy schedule like SRB, have a chance in the KO stage.

Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7151617

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •