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Thread: WC 2019 Power Rankings

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roofman View Post
    As for Maric, probably no other player anywhere comes close to polarising opinion among (true) fans because he was the ultimate system player, good in pick and roll situations, good finisher from dump offs, good rebounder........ Hopeless on the block or if the first option of a team. Serbia actually recruited him after his 2010 season at Partizan then he proceeded to be one of the most maligned Australian players ever under Brett Brown (on forums anyway). I saw a very limited amount of him during this time, so I think there was truth both ways in the coach good/player bad or player bad/coach good polemic, although not everything could be ran to Alek's strengths.
    Yeah, I remember all the drama with the Serbian NT recrutiment Trust me, in his best times he was a terrific pick-n-roll player. Basically, he was close to a one-trick pony (with some not too rare occurences of interesting back-to-basket moves here and there rounding up his offensive game) and for a big guy he was slightly anachrosnistic even for those times but his pick-n-roll efificiency in a team which used him right was off-the-charts. I liked him, even if he looked somewhat of a headcase

    Quote Originally Posted by Roofman View Post
    Regarding young talent coming through, I have followed Dejan Vasiljevic somewhat since he has been at University of Miami. He is a decent prospect, a shooter with some ability to create his own shot, and while possessing some playmaking skills, in the old days would have been considered a shooting guard in a point guard's body. Bogut rates him highly, will be interesting to see if he can crack the NBA after his senior year at Miami, I am certain that he will get a long look in future times, maybe when 27-30, but unless they go deep in the NCAA tournament and he wows NBA scouts/camps, won't be an immediate NBA player (Jack White and Noi at Texas Christian are probably similar, don't know enough about these guys because I haven't seen them in full games).
    Somehow I thought that he graduated last year and was surprised his surname springing up in NCAA statsheets this winter. I haven't seen Miami games this season (if I recall it right, this season was bad for them), so don't really know how he's looking right now. And, yes, I forgot that it was Greenwood who changed to AFL, now I remember reading about this case some years ago. Well, it's somewhat surprising given the fact that his built and physique weren't indicative of such a move (if I'm not mistaken Aussie football is similar to softened rugby or something like that?). And I remember that Drmic played locally. My question was purely rhetorical though (English clearly isn't my native language, so misunderstanding is my fault) I was not intending to ask "where are they now" question (though your answer is totally welcome ) but my point was just to ruminate on how players who should be considered for NT or at the very least its extended roster, if we are to project from the promise they showed in the youth categories, somehow fail to make this "big next step" for a variety of reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    As I said before Russia doesnt stand a chance against the current turkish roster but Russia had luck to be "elected" in group B in the wc so quarterfinals are achievable now.
    Never mind the team you are rooting for, you better not to write stuff like this. A team like Belgium definitely stands a chance against the current Turkish roster... and even against the current Spanish roster, though a significantly slimmer one. It's a modern basketball where difference in quality becomes much less recognizable than it was. And when you write down an ideal roster for "your team" with guard spots occupied by Balbay, Ozmirzak, Wilbekin and Mahmutoglu, then this sort of sentiment certainly seems too brash and cocky.

    P.S. You are certainly not very knowledgeable about Russian basketball ("generation of Vorontsevich and Kulagin" is like "generation of Kerem Tunceri and Baris Ermis", one of these guys is 5 years older than the other). And our main problems are with bigs, especially on C position, since backcourt is much more packed, though there are some awful injuries this spring (Khvostov and Strebkov out of the game for roughly half a year each). Without injuries, our potential backcourt options are Kulagin the Elder, Shved, Fridzon, Khvostov, Strebkov, Voronov, Kolesnikov, Baburin, Ponkrashov and younger guys like Denis Zakharov, Ivan Ukhov and Misha Kulagin. Well, it's not "true depth" a la France but it's not that bad either (certainly better than Turkey).
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    As I said before Russia doesnt stand a chance against the current turkish roster but Russia had luck to be "elected" in group B in the wc so quarterfinals are achievable now.
    Not sure where this confidence is coming from. It cannot really be coming from our roster, can it? I know you "explained" it above, I just cannot get my head around it.

    Balbay - Özmizrak
    Wilbekin - Mahmutoglu
    Osman - Korkmaz
    Ilyasova - Gecim
    Semih - Yurtseven

    here, Ozmizrak and Gecim are 1-level lower players than the rest with their incurable inconsistency (You said I didn't watch enough BSL games to know, which is fair, but I watched Ozmizrak in the EL and winced a lot. Gecim's stats are still mediocre: 8.1-3.2-3.4 with low FG% in BSL). Semih Erden played well last time, but he's another head case. We only have Osman, Wilbekin, Ilyasova, Korkmaz as decent players here, with Mahmutoglu's potential to light it up. that's far from making me optimistic.

    by the way, the experience shows that Germany will somehow beat our NT with a village roster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorizer View Post
    Other than that, who are the main candidates for your national team's roster? Wilbekin/Balbay/Sipahi (I hope there are no guys like Sinan Guler anymore?) - Korkmaz/Mahmutoglu/Koksal - Osman/Gecim - M-me Ilyasova (whose age, like that of any grand dame, remains clouded in mystery)/Turen - Erden/Yurtseven (?)/Sanli. Well, it's hardly a powerhouse's roster. There are zero extra-class players here (no, one stat-wise good season in one of the worst NBA teams doesn't make Cedi a player of this caliber) and most of these players are having big trouble with securing playing time in the games that matter. And some of them are also very inexperienced and raw.
    for the international level, Ilyasova used to be that player. cannot predict how he'll fare now with his 35 years of age (hardly a mystery by now). Osman may break out, he was not just a stat-sheet filler in the Cavs, he's actually growing. well. but yes, he's not the extra class, which we do not have any.
    Last edited by Levenspiel; 06-02-2019 at 09:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    Not sure where this confidence is coming from. It cannot really be coming from our roster, can it? I know you "explained" it above, I just cannot get my head around it.

    Balbay - Özmizrak
    Wilbekin - Mahmutoglu
    Osman - Korkmaz
    Ilyasova - Gecim
    Semih - Yurtseven

    here, Ozmizrak and Gecim are 1-level lower players than the rest with their incurable inconsistency (You said I didn't watch enough BSL games to know, which is fair, but I watched Ozmizrak in the EL and winced a lot. Gecim's stats are still mediocre: 8.1-3.2-3.4 with low FG% in BSL). Semih Erden played well last time, but he's another head case. We only have Osman, Wilbekin, Ilyasova, Korkmaz as decent players here, with Mahmutoglu's potential to light it up. that's far from making me optimistic.

    by the way, the experience shows that Germany will somehow beat our NT with a village roster.


    for the international level, Ilyasova used to be that player. cannot predict how he'll fare now with his 35 years of age (hardly a mystery by now). Osman may break out, he was not just a stat-sheet filler in the Cavs, he's actually growing. well. but yes, he's not the extra class, which we do not have any.
    I think my position is some where between you two. We are not too great but not too bad either. We played Russia without Ilyasova Last time and the game was a thriller. Cedi showed he can carry a team in Europe by himself Last time. Adding Ilyasova and Wilbekin to that roster with better Cedi and Furkan carries us a tier above. But most of our players are really inconsistent. We need Melih to be able to shoot over 40% and Semih to be strong under the rim. I believe in Semih more than I believe in Melih

  4. #104
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    Never mind the team you are rooting for, you better not to write stuff like this. A team like Belgium definitely stands a chance against the current Turkish roster... and even against the current Spanish roster, though a significantly slimmer one. It's a modern basketball where difference in quality becomes much less recognizable than it was. And when you write down an ideal roster for "your team" with guard spots occupied by Balbay, Ozmirzak, Wilbekin and Mahmutoglu, then this sort of sentiment certainly seems too brash and cocky.
    Well then we agree on disagree. So except USA all teams can defeat the other on a good day, even though it is in 4 of 100 games. In that point I agree with you. In everything else dont get me wrong... I think you write nonsense. We use a point forward named Osman as playmaker by the way.

    Well since both teams wont face each other its just speculation and Russia as I said has too few prospects to substitute the few player on the court. So I am pretty sure that Russia wont even be mentionable next Eurobasket.

    The only Player that I respect on Russian side is Shved.
    Last edited by Toruko; 06-02-2019 at 10:09 PM.

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    by the way, the experience shows that Germany will somehow beat our NT with a village roster.
    by the way, the experience shows that Germany will somehow beat our NT with a village roster.
    Well in 2015 Turkey defeated Germany in Berlin with a much weaker roster. I was there. Six, seven month ago Turkey played Germany in the VTG Supercup in Hamburg. I was there. Turkey defeated a respectable German roster with Schröder, Kleber, Zirbes etc without braking a sweat and the Germans gave everything.



    So I really dont know why you guys overvalue teams like Germany or Russia. Many teams are carried of 2 or 3 good guys at max. We have with Korkmaz, Osman, Ilyasova and Wilbekin four scorer who can carry this team scoringwise. I understand it Furkan, Cedi etc didnt show up this season but quality is still there. Being humble is good but dont be afraid of teams like Russia or Germany. We are definitely far better.

    I think my position is some where between you two. We are not too great but not too bad either. We played Russia without Ilyasova Last time and the game was a thriller. Cedi showed he can carry a team in Europe by himself Last time. Adding Ilyasova and Wilbekin to that roster with better Cedi and Furkan carries us a tier above. But most of our players are really inconsistent. We need Melih to be able to shoot over 40% and Semih to be strong under the rim. I believe in Semih more than I believe in Melih
    I am with you in most of what you have written but i dont think that Melih will get much playtime, although he seems to be in shape. I am also not really worried about other the performances of player like Korkmaz or Osman. Actually, Turkey is really weak under the rim. Especially if Yurt7 doesnt come, it will force turkey to play with Sertac Sanli who is a catastrophy.

    Anyway the goal is clear. Beat Japan and the Czechs in the first round and probably Montenegro and Greece in the second. Thats the max that is achievable this time.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    The problems are the same. The Fiba court is smaller and the teams will defend unlike in the nba. If you give giannis enough space he will jump above your head and dunk but if you dont let him speed up he is a horrible mid ranger. Giannis will of course have and impact but in order to use the advantages of Giannis you must have shooter around him but thats the problem of greece. Its probably the worst shooting team or lets say one of the in the tournament. With a non shooter like calathes you can double giannis at any time without having any fears from outside. Sloukas is just consistent in mid range or from the top and in addition there is no consistent shooter maybe except dorsey.
    To double team Giannis is not enough. He is being double teamed in the NBA in every game. Plays are being prepared only to stop him. Every Greek player will have more space because of him. And at the end of the day they are key players for top EL teams. Not to mention the amount of rebounds and blocks Greece will have on the defensive end. Consider the defensive value of someone like Giannis on a Greek team. He could very well be the missing link. Besides, if Greece lacks some offensive talent as some assume, then they will defend like crazy. A far more suiting style for a team like Greece.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    To double team Giannis is not enough. He is being double teamed in the NBA in every game. Plays are being prepared only to stop him. Every Greek player will have more space because of him. And at the end of the day they are key players for top EL teams. Not to mention the amount of rebounds and blocks Greece will have on the defensive end. Consider the defensive value of someone like Giannis on a Greek team. He could very well be the missing link. Besides, if Greece lacks some offensive talent as some assume, then they will defend like crazy. A far more suiting style for a team like Greece.
    Its always the same how you stop a non-shooting guy. Form a wall in the paint and force him to shoot. The key is not if Giannis has an impact or not. It doesnt matter if he scores 30 points or not. As long as the other player cant get a rithm there will be no problem. But he will be a big problem on the defensive end but i am not sure if he will give everything after such a tiring season.

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    Not sure where this confidence is coming from. It cannot really be coming from our roster, can it? I know you "explained" it above, I just cannot get my head around it.

    Balbay - Özmizrak
    Wilbekin - Mahmutoglu
    Osman - Korkmaz
    Ilyasova - Gecim
    Semih - Yurtseven

    here, Ozmizrak and Gecim are 1-level lower players than the rest with their incurable inconsistency (You said I didn't watch enough BSL games to know, which is fair, but I watched Ozmizrak in the EL and winced a lot. Gecim's stats are still mediocre: 8.1-3.2-3.4 with low FG% in BSL). Semih Erden played well last time, but he's another head case. We only have Osman, Wilbekin, Ilyasova, Korkmaz as decent players here, with Mahmutoglu's potential to light it up. that's far from making me optimistic.
    look, if you take Gecim for example... Banvit lost 2 of its scorers Moore and Neal and Gecim had to take over with Guys like Hazer and Atar. Of course they are skilled and talented but not ready to lift bsl level right now. Nobody said that Gecim is a scorer but he had to score. In the national Team his role will be totally different. 90% of the balls will be used by Wilbekin, Osman, Furkan and Ilyasova. He just has to create for others and he is great in that. In a team with better scorers he would have averaged at least 8 assists. Balbay just has to "take out" the playmaker like he always does and nails open 3 pointer.

    The other point is our playing style. We use Cedi Osman as point forward so he decides what to do on the court most of the time, sometimes, seldom, it is Korkmaz so we are blessed with wings who can ballhandle on a very high level

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    Latest reports indicate Kemba Walker is committed to the US team and James Harden and Anthony Davis are still likely to commit. Zion Williamson and Donovan Mitchell are also under consideration. This is all per Marc Stein.

    I had read a report previously that Kevin Love was interested in trying out for the team.

    Kyrie Irving had done an interview for FIBA’s website a while back that seemed to indicate some interest in participating but hard to say that means much.

    Besides Lebron confirming he wouldn’t participate there are already a number of players from the player pool unavailable due to injury... John Wall, Victor Oladipo, Paul George, Blake Griffin, perhaps Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant and Demarcus Cousins. I’m certainly not suggesting all or even any of these players would have been a part of the team but the injuries have thinned the pool out for sure. I’d be shocked if Kawhi Leonard decided to participate.

    All that said, it’s hard to count on the reliability of any reports until players are actually on the court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cagney View Post
    Latest reports indicate Kemba Walker is committed to the US team and James Harden and Anthony Davis are still likely to commit. Zion Williamson and Donovan Mitchell are also under consideration. This is all per Marc Stein.

    I had read a report previously that Kevin Love was interested in trying out for the team.

    Kyrie Irving had done an interview for FIBA’s website a while back that seemed to indicate some interest in participating but hard to say that means much.

    Besides Lebron confirming he wouldn’t participate there are already a number of players from the player pool unavailable due to injury... John Wall, Victor Oladipo, Paul George, Blake Griffin, perhaps Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant and Demarcus Cousins. I’m certainly not suggesting all or even any of these players would have been a part of the team but the injuries have thinned the pool out for sure. I’d be shocked if Kawhi Leonard decided to participate.

    All that said, it’s hard to count on the reliability of any reports until players are actually on the court.
    More names coming out for the USA training camp roster:
    https://www.espn.com/olympics/basket...sa-hoop-roster

    Damian Lillard
    CJ McCollum,
    James Harden
    Eric Gordon
    Jayson Tatum
    Donovan Mitchell
    Khris Middleton
    P.J. Tucker
    Kyle Kuzma
    Kevin Love
    LaMarcus Aldridge
    Anthony Davis
    Brook Lopez
    Andre Drummond

    and another tough-minded veteran, Denver's Paul Millsap, is also a possibility, league sources told ESPN.
    probably a few more to come to get it to 18 or so. didnt see Kemba Walker in this ESPN report but it was mentioned in others.

    That should be enough right there. Doubt anyone can touch a team with AD, Lillard, Harden with the right role players around them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    More names coming out for the USA training camp roster:
    https://www.espn.com/olympics/basket...sa-hoop-roster

    Damian Lillard
    CJ McCollum,
    James Harden
    Eric Gordon
    Jayson Tatum
    Donovan Mitchell
    Khris Middleton
    P.J. Tucker
    Kyle Kuzma
    Kevin Love
    LaMarcus Aldridge
    Anthony Davis
    Brook Lopez
    Andre Drummond

    and another tough-minded veteran, Denver's Paul Millsap, is also a possibility, league sources told ESPN.
    probably a few more to come to get it to 18 or so. didnt see Kemba Walker in this ESPN report but it was mentioned in others.

    That should be enough right there. Doubt anyone can touch a team with AD, Lillard, Harden with the right role players around them.
    This definitely looks reasonable and follows the precedent set in all other previous World Championship USA/NBA teams.
    An overall B level team USA just like ‘94, ‘06, ‘10 and ‘14. 2002 as an exception was more like a C level team.
    So B tier or level players sprinkled in with a couple of A level players is what it appears like.

  12. #112
    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    This definitely looks reasonable and follows the precedent set in all other previous World Championship USA/NBA teams.
    An overall B level team USA just like ‘94, ‘06, ‘10 and ‘14. 2002 as an exception was more like a C level team.
    So B tier or level players sprinkled in with a couple of A level players is what it appears like.
    Yeah a core of Dame, AD, and Harden is legit, just need the right amount of shooters/bangers to compliment them and they'll be the favorites no question.

    Something to keep an eye on, while not on the main 18 man roster. Zion's been invited to the US select team which will workout with the main team in training camp. https://twitter.com/thesteinline/sta...751687680?s=21
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    This definitely looks reasonable and follows the precedent set in all other previous World Championship USA/NBA teams.
    An overall B level team USA just like ‘94, ‘06, ‘10 and ‘14. 2002 as an exception was more like a C level team.
    So B tier or level players sprinkled in with a couple of A level players is what it appears like.
    B-level team but enough to beat the rest of the world. Just like their G-League team that was enough to beat the rest of their continent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    B-level team but enough to beat the rest of the world. Just like their G-League team that was enough to beat the rest of their continent.
    It’s definitely enough as was proven in past tournaments and they would be a heavy favorite. But it should also be pointed out that previously in ‘02-‘06 it is these type of teams that have tripped up and have been beaten. A level Olympic type USA rosters have been pretty much unbeatable historically.

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    If Harden falls of (pretty likely I believe) and say Lillard, this team is worse than I expected. FOA, really unimpressive centers. Can we call Drummond a dominant big? Not for USA standards, IMO. He's a shaky, unskilled big. A good, but not great center who stats pad in horrible team. Aside Davis, I'm not too sold on both Aldridge and Love. Plenty of mid range jumpshot in the tiny FIBA court? They're good, but not great again. At SF there's no single stud that stands out instantly. So except Harden and Lillard who both can win single handedly, and maybe overlooked super-talent in McCollum, I'm not too impressed. If there will be absences among those, I like Serbia's and maybe some other team's chances. What obviously is apparent, it's not a good defensive team for USA standards and even overall it may not even be the best defensive team. The backourt, except maybe Gordon, is rather horrid at D. Other positions are shaky, except that there's Davis as a defensive beast. With all that said, USA will win it again most likely, but I'm surprised overall. Not a scary USA NT, specially if one of 2 guards superstars won't show up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    If Harden falls of (pretty likely I believe) and say Lillard, this team is worse than I expected. FOA, really unimpressive centers. Can we call Drummond a dominant big? Not for USA standards, IMO. He's a shaky, unskilled big. A good, but not great center who stats pad in horrible team. Aside Davis, I'm not too sold on both Aldridge and Love. Plenty of mid range jumpshot in the tiny FIBA court? They're good, but not great again. At SF there's no single stud that stands out instantly. So except Harden and Lillard who both can win single handedly, and maybe overlooked super-talent in McCollum, I'm not too impressed. If there will be absences among those, I like Serbia's and maybe some other team's chances. What obviously is apparent, it's not a good defensive team for USA standards and even overall it may not even be the best defensive team. The backourt, except maybe Gordon, is rather horrid at D. Other positions are shaky, except that there's Davis as a defensive beast. With all that said, USA will win it again most likely, but I'm surprised overall. Not a scary USA NT, specially if one of 2 guards superstars won't show up.
    Note - Harrison Barnes has been added to the training camp roster along with Zion Williamson and Myles Turner.


    So why do you think James Harden is likely to "fall off". I see no indication of that whatsoever.

    There are a load of underrated guys here that don't normally get the spot light who are great players. You miss on mentioning Kemba Walker who has played in the shadow of Charlotte's small market and to many looks a better player than Kyrie Irving. McCollum and Lillard only seem to recently get the recognition they deserve but still under appreciated. Kevin Love has been a very solid role playerfor the USA in the past as a fairly decent 3Pt shooting PF who takes care of the glass. Brook Lopez has proven himself as an excellent 3PT shooting center (best in the NBA) who enjoys the role player role. His teammate Khris Middleton, although having a poor playoffs has been a chronically underappreciated two-way player in his career - an allstar level player and 2nd best player on the Bucks.
    Jayson Tatum and Donovan Mitchell bring some interesting dynamic youth. P.J. Tucker is a vastly underappreciated hard nosed role player who thrives doing the dirty work. I agree about Aldridge. Andre Drummond is likely there to be a situational C to help with big paint Cs like Jonas Valanciunas. And I agree on the lack of obvious NBA SFs - but don;t you think for FIBA guys like Brady Beal or Kris Middleton are easily SFs? Middleton is at 6'8 at least. There are all the tools here to make a great "Team". Not a mishmash of stars who all need the ball in their hands to succeed. There is one ultra-ball dominant star (Harden) with two other stars that can succeed in secondary roles (Davis, Lillard) and a host of elite role players, who can easily step up into a prominent role as needed.

    If Pop can pull these guys together into some form of co-cohesive unit - they will once again be unstoppable.

    What do you guys think as likely starters?


    Harden
    Lillard (Beal)?
    Middleton
    Love
    Davis


    By the way this team comprises 8 of the Top 20 most prolific three point shooters in the NBA (most made threes 2018/19 season) in:
    Harden
    Walker
    Lillard
    Beal
    Gordon
    Mitchell
    Middleton
    Lopez
    And Barnes is #21
    Last edited by mojo13; 06-07-2019 at 04:21 PM.

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    Something like this :

    Lillard / Kemba
    Beal. / Mitchell
    Harden / McCollum / Kuzma
    Love. / Middleton / Tatum
    Davis. / Aldridge

    If you want another big then Drummond in and Kuzma out.

    I still have some doubts about Anthony Davis and Zion Williamson participating.

  18. #118
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    Why would Dame or Harden fall off? Neither is hurt, and neither is in a contract situation or starting with a new team. It's not like either of these guys is new to Team USA either, so I wouldn't expect them to decommit at random.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    Why would Dame or Harden fall off? Neither is hurt, and neither is in a contract situation or starting with a new team. It's not like either of these guys is new to Team USA either, so I wouldn't expect them to decommit at random.
    I agree. Harden and Lillard are probably 90% gonna participate. Zion and Anthony Davis are probably not in my opinion.
    I think Davis gets traded this summer and won’t play. If the Pelicans don’t trade him this summer then almost out of spite I think he will participate.

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    I admit it's a wild guess, but to me his willingness to participate is rather strange. He pushes so many weight on his back with Rockets, he turns thirty this summer, no other "real" superstars bothered to play (no, Davis is not on Harden level status wise, IMO, and overall as "celebrity"). So I figured there's a decent chance he might eventually turn off NT. It's only WC, why would Harden bother. Also remember how Durrant ran away from NT just seeing George's injury in 2014? That's all I have.
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