WC 2019 Power Rankings

[usagre]

@Roofman
You are right I should correct myself they are not too old other than Bogut, what I meant to say that in my opinion Mills,
Delly and Baynes are worse players than they were three years ago. Ingles is probably better. So I am probably underselling them a bit.

I agree about Simmons’ participation in the training and exhibition can really interfere with their preparation. But I guess it could also leave the possibility that he changes his mind and then actually goes through with the tournament. I don’t see why that’s not a possibility. So I guess if there’s a chance of that in some way it could work itself out.

[Steadysoul]

Anyone paying attention can see that Lithuania rarely underachieves and mostly overachieves. That’s their history and it’s well established. So you can never count them out and I wouldn’t be surprised if they won their group, But going in according to talent I think Canada is superior.

And I am not buying Australia. They peaked 3 years ago and their key players are a lot older now. So I would go

1 Canada
2 Lithuania
3 Australia

I ask this in all seriousness because it reminds me of the conversation around Conley being underrated for a ridiculous amount of time. How long can one over/underachieve before you just count it as expected?

[Shawshank]

How can team overachieve for 25+years?.Spurs also overachieve for 22+ in NBA? Because neither of those 2 teams have best tallent and rarely ever had in those 2 decades.

In basketball it's not only tallent what counts...there is also playing the right way, playing hard,playing together and smart and leaving everything you have on the court.Maybe it won't win medal everytime ( eventually you will need tallent for that ) but damm right you gonna win basketball games in every tournament/season playing it like that- the right way .

[Shawshank]

If Simmons would come and say to our coaches/players I will prepare together even show myself againts USA in friendly, but not helping our nt in Wc...I'm sure everybody in our camp would say get the F*** out here and stop making fun of real men that are ready represent their nation and prepare seriuosly .We don't need divas that thinks about showing himself and his goods, but don't care about main thing -team . Such players mindset only can hurt team.In 25 years of watching NT basketball never hear anybody with such bullshit , if that not a joke he definitely have no idea what representing your country is all about...or you are all in or don't show up,but you can't be somewhere in middle.In Friendly games he gonna start and just before main event he disappears ,not a single seriuos coach would agree with that.What team chemistry can you built doing like that?

If Australia gonna prepare like that they would deserve to go home after group.

[usagre]

How can team overachieve for 25+years?.Spurs also overachieve for 22+ in NBA? Because neither of those 2 teams have best tallent and rarely ever had in those 2 decades.

In basketball it's not only tallent what counts...there is also playing the right way, playing hard,playing together and smart and leaving everything you have on the court.Maybe it won't win medal everytime ( eventually you will need tallent for that ) but damm right you gonna win basketball games in every tournament/season playing it like that- the right way .

You can over or underachieve for 100 years because it's in relation to as a player what you show playing for your club teams as opposed to your national team. That's what I am saying. Guys like Kalnietis and Seibutis have consistently done this in my opinion. Sure some of that is better system and culture but some of it is more motivation one feels playing for his country than for money.

Some examples of each in world events,
Overachieving 2000, 2010, 2014
Underachieving. 2004.

Forget the Spurs not a good comparison. They have had Tim Duncan one of the greatest big man in the history of the NBA
anchoring that team for a good part of those years. So that's not as overachieving as it appears.

[Mindozas]

You can over or underachieve for 100 years because it's in relation to as a player what you show playing for your club teams as opposed to your national team. That's what I am saying. Guys like Kalnietis and Seibutis have consistently done this in my opinion. Sure some of that is better system and culture but some of it is more motivation one feels playing for his country than for money.

Some examples of each in world events,
Overachieving 2000, 2010, 2014
Underachieving. 2004.

2000 - no. I can agree that we, here in Lithuania, had no big hopes regarding this team, probably whole world didn't, mainly cause Sabas couldn't come and Karnisovas was injured. Two our biggest stars. But we were too focused on that and just weren't aware how good this team can be without them too. They already played some amazing bball in 1999, even when Sabas was benched. It turned into fast paced game, dynamic bball, great to watch. I mean it already had Jasikevicius playing decent basketball, it had Einikis, who was great when sober. It had core of Zalgiris guys who won Euroleague in 1999, young rising star Siskauskas. And finally it had mastermind Kazlauskas as a coach. We were step away from winning gold. I guess you remember ending of that semi vs USA when with 40s on clock and tied score, Siskauskas made only 1 ft out of 3 He was 100% ft shooter till that. That team didn't overachieve, it was just underestimated.

[usagre]

@Mindozas.

Absolutely that team was very solid and I remember that semifinal all too well. Vince Carter hit one of the clutchest shots in USA basketball history in the final minute of that game while trailing. I only put them as an overachieving team slightly and that's because they got by a really good Yugoslavia/Serbia team in the quarters that was the defending world champion with a better team than in '98.

[Steadysoul]

You can over or underachieve for 100 years because it's in relation to as a player what you show playing for your club teams as opposed to your national team. That's what I am saying. Guys like Kalnietis and Seibutis have consistently done this in my opinion. Sure some of that is better system and culture but some of it is more motivation one feels playing for his country than for money.

Some examples of each in world events,
Overachieving 2000, 2010, 2014
Underachieving. 2004.

Forget the Spurs not a good comparison. They have had Tim Duncan one of the greatest big man in the history of the NBA
anchoring that team for a good part of those years. So that's not as overachieving as it appears.

I don't think I would use over/underachieving to describe this. I mean they're ranked 6th for a reason. The rankings don't do a lot of things greats but they can definitely tell you how consistent a team is.

[usagre]

I don't think I would use over/underachieving to describe this. I mean they're ranked 6th for a reason. The rankings don't do a lot of things greats but they can definitely tell you how consistent a team is.

I guess it's semantics then. Call it what you like. I am saying you look at the roster going in and accordingly set expectations. If they exceed them or underperform is the point. You can label that or call it whatever you want. Each roster is different. Setting a standard based on the average results doesn't tell you anything about an individual tournament. When it comes to Lithuania they exceed expectations way more than they underperform in my opinion.

[Steadysoul]

I guess it's semantics then. Call it what you like. I am saying you look at the roster going in and accordingly set expectations. If they exceed them or underperform is the point. You can label that or call it whatever you want. Each roster is different. Setting a standard based on the average results doesn't tell you anything about an individual tournament. When it comes to Lithuania they exceed expectations way more than they underperform in my opinion.

to me that seems like you underrate them but I guess my question is at what point do you stop underrating them?

I think the more accurate phrasing would be that they play above their weight class. The sum is greater than their parts. If they were a white athlete in the US commentators would call them sneaky athletic.

[Straight forward]

to me that seems like you underrate them but I guess my question is at what point do you stop underrating them?

I think the more accurate phrasing would be that they play above their weight class. The sum is greater than their parts. If they were a white athlete in the US commentators would call them sneaky athletic.

I didn't get an impression that usagre underrate Lithuania. But I completely agree with your words below.

[Shawshank]

You can over or underachieve for 100 years because it's in relation to as a player what you show playing for your club teams as opposed to your national team. That's what I am saying. Guys like Kalnietis and Seibutis have consistently done this in my opinion. Sure some of that is better system and culture but some of it is more motivation one feels playing for his country than for money.

Some examples of each in world events,
Overachieving 2000, 2010, 2014
Underachieving. 2004.

Forget the Spurs not a good comparison. They have had Tim Duncan one of the greatest big man in the history of the NBA
anchoring that team for a good part of those years. So that's not as overachieving as it appears.

To be able to constantly overachieve what you have on paper you can't built it in one summer, it's long process,tradition,system,strong loockeroom and main thing there Lietuva team no individual tallents or names.When you enter that loockeroom your ego please leave behind doors or don't go in ...that's one of the main rules Kalnietis,Javtokas former captains repeated many times.Surnames will change, but how our players play together and compete hard on both ends will not change .

Even when he had fiba superstar players most of them bought to system and togetherness thing, you can't teach that , that our indentity and that even our best players agrees to do little dirty thing for teams goods .That's says our players mentality when they wear ltu jersey.

In 27 years we were out tallented many times, but very few examples you can say Lithuania NT was outhustled or outperformed by lesser team in playoofs game.

There is reasons why ltu fans knows that Australia and Canada have better rosters, but we don't look ourselves as big underdog.We say it 50/50 games we have our intangibles that is on our side, that paper with roster names doesn't show.

Thats why inexperienced raw Canada tallent doesn't impress me, you will need way more than just superior tallent to beat elite team in 40min fiba playoffs type game.

[usagre]

We are all on the same page here I think. And the way i see it for this tournament a semifinal appearance would exceed expectations, a quarterfinal would meet expectations and anything less would be an underachievement.

[Hepcat]

...it had Einikis, who was great when sober.

Most coaches (including Kazlauskas) strongly encourage the players to stay sober for games.

[madmax]

Simmons can do whatever the hell he wants - he was just offered a 170 mil contract by his NBA club and I assume the management of that franchise doesn't want to take any risks with a guy who is paid that friggin much in a dodgy FIBA game...These highly paid guys carve out their own legacies and and history and if Simmons wants to improve his jumpshot in the summer instead of being a patriotic dumbass for his native Australia, then so be it