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Thread: The Filipinos' Lack of Height is the MAin Reason Why We Cannot Excel in BAsketball

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    Default The Filipinos' Lack of Height is the MAin Reason Why We Cannot Excel in BAsketball

    I intend this to be a Forum Debate. As stated in the Title, the proposition presupposes that the Filipinos' lack of height presents a major hindrance in excelling in the game of basketball IN THE ASIAN LEVEL.

    Excellent Debaters in Interbasket Philippines like Dead Lizard, Nardy, Durden Tyler, and to some extent, Snipes and BT4U are welcome to present their formal stand on this topic provided that they do so without resorting to namecalling and other cheap tricks.The other forumers are of course welcome to join too.

    To those who will join this debate, please indicate whether you favor the proposition (The Filipinos' Lack of Height is the Main Reason Why We Cannot Excel in BAsketball in the Asian Level.), or the opposition ( No, the Filipinos LAck of Height is NOT the MAin Reason Why We Cannot Excel in Basketball in the Asian Level.) TO Serious Debaters, pls indicate also the reason why you chose such a stand and support it with good arguments and facts. thank you.

    Another purpose of this thread is to unclog the other threads from annoying mini debates that erupt from time to time. So, that being said, Debate is On!
    Last edited by talion.; 07-28-2009 at 02:54 AM.

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    i don't agree! It's because of the PBA...look at the history! before the PBA came into picture we were the powerhouse of Asia and since then....nothing.:

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    It's like inviting flamers to dinner.. I hope this thread does well
    "How small ball works: Tall Skilled beats small skilled every time,but small skilled beats tall stiff every time" - Kevin McHale

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    Size is only a natural advantage and, like all advantages, it can be negated... by speed, quickness, shooting, a good system, team defense and preparation. Some may argue that there is also a unique pinoy "x" factor -- creativity.

    If you've seen how Smart Gilas competed at the Asia Champions Cup, you would know what I mean...

    The Gilas boys had all of the 5 factors above working for them; thus, they were able to go head-to-head against a much bigger Mahram Iran club team (which, according to Toroman himself is stronger than Iran's NT) bannered by 7'3 Lauderdale, 6'10 Vroman and the core of Iran's NT...

    Chot's 2007 team had at least the first three factors on tap (speed, quickness and shooting), and a little of the last three.

    Yeng's 2009 team, in my view, only has speed working for them. (Note that there's a difference between speed and quickness. Speed works in the open court, which is useless if you can't get rebounds or make the quick outlet pass).

    For a team that has no real system in place and relies on freelancing most of the time, your best weapon would be a really good and vocal court leader -- a PG like Jimmy Alapag -- who can consistently beat his man off the dribble, throw the defense in disarray, and dish out to an open teammate. Plus a creative, unconventional scorer (Mark Caguioa or Mac Cardona) who can force defensive adjustments and pose as an enigma to opposing coaches (when Lebanese coach Dragan Raca said, "I see something in Philippine players, but I'll keep that to myself and for my players," I thought he was actually referring to the pinoys' enigmatic creativity on the court).

    Bottomline, if your opponent is two times bigger than you, then you at least have to work three times harder on all other things to beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erektus View Post
    Size is only a natural advantage and, like all advantages, it can be negated... by speed, quickness, shooting, a good system, team defense and preparation. Some may argue that there is also a unique pinoy "x" factor -- creativity.

    If you've seen how Smart Gilas competed at the Asia Champions Cup, you would know what I mean...

    The Gilas boys had all of the 5 factors above working for them; thus, they were able to go head-to-head against a much bigger Mahram Iran club team (which, according to Toroman himself is stronger than Iran's NT) bannered by 7'3 Lauderdale, 6'10 Vroman and the core of Iran's NT...

    Chot's 2007 team had at least the first three factors on tap (speed, quickness and shooting), and a little of the last three.

    Yeng's 2009 team, in my view, only has speed working for them. (Note that there's a difference between speed and quickness. Speed works in the open court, which is useless if you can't get rebounds or make the quick outlet pass).

    For a team that has no real system in place and relies on freelancing most of the time, your best weapon would be a really good and vocal court leader -- a PG like Jimmy Alapag -- who can consistently beat his man off the dribble, throw the defense in disarray, and dish out to an open teammate. Plus a creative, unconventional scorer (Mark Caguioa or Mac Cardona) who can force defensive adjustments and pose as an enigma to opposing coaches (when Lebanese coach Dragan Raca said, "I see something in Philippine players, but I'll keep that to myself and for my players," I thought he was actually referring to the pinoys' enigmatic creativity on the court).

    Bottomline, if your opponent is two times bigger than you, then you at least have to work three times harder on all other things to beat him.

    Well height plays a big factor but again its about chemistry good shooting and passing...


    no need to argue only one answer to you MR. Topic Starter..












    KOREA
    You know how to WIN against the Philippines? Zone them do death and watch them crumble. Been working Since 2002 and coaches until today don't have the answer for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammomile View Post
    Well height plays a big factor but again its about chemistry good shooting and passing...


    no need to argue only one answer to you MR. Topic Starter..












    KOREA

    I am for the opposition. The Filipinos' lack of height is not the main reason why we cannot excel in basketball in the asian level.

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    Senior Member TrueBluePinoy's Avatar
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    Excuses Excuses Excuses.

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    Senior Member kaiziken_pinas's Avatar
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    athleticism and speed defeats height. however, body size and good defense defeats speed and athleticism.... get what I'm trying to say?


    This is a pointless thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talion. View Post
    I am for the opposition. The Filipinos' lack of height is not the main reason why we cannot excel in basketball in the asian level.
    Come on guys its not all about height..Being tall also has a downfall..Kazakstan is tall but slow..to break down a tall opposition you need to be near perfect on the perimeter..Good passing and outside shooting..Reason why we are not doing good in the jones cup is our 3 points sucks even our free throws aint perfect considering our players are pro..Once again my answer to the topic is






    KOREA









    We are more athletic than korea and Even taller..but why are they doing good and able to beat middle asia teams...Chemistry good shooting and passing and familiarity with each other...
    You know how to WIN against the Philippines? Zone them do death and watch them crumble. Been working Since 2002 and coaches until today don't have the answer for it.

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    Senior Member bolabasket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phevergy View Post
    i don't agree! It's because of the PBA...look at the history! before the PBA came into picture we were the powerhouse of Asia and since then....nothing.:
    totally agree....it's the PBA!....and its schedule....Noli Eala was the savior when he wanted to pattern PBA's sked not to conflict with FIBA events...but unfortunately, he didn't last long because his license got revoked
    SMART GILAS: all the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by phevergy View Post
    i don't agree! It's because of the PBA...look at the history! before the PBA came into picture we were the powerhouse of Asia and since then....nothing.:
    as we'd say in another forum i'm in..."+1". wholeheartedly agree.

    don't get me wrong. i enjoy watching the occasional PBA game (though not the die-hard PBA fan i was in my elementary and high school days). but the PBA ushered in the era of pinoys trying to overdo what the romans (i.e. the NBA) would do. when the mid-'80s lakers captivated the NBA world with "Showtime" and almost every NBA team was averaging 110+ points, PBA teams were averaging 120+ points. when "Uglyball" became the norm in the NBA in the late '90s and teams averaging 100+ points became a rarity, hardly any team in the PBA averaged more than 80 points.

    sad fact is, we've lost our own identity in the basketball world long ago. and we're struggling to get it back...even up to now.

  12. #12

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    Yes this is true. The lack of height of the filipinos is the main reason why we are not competitive in the asian level.

    Against taller and quicker teams, the philippines doesnt stand a chance. this is proven in the jones cup and fiba asia 2007. what needs to be done is to develop our 6'6s and 6'7s to become shooting guards and small forwards instead of centers. this way, we already solve our problem in the 2 and 3 positions.as for the 4 and 5 spots, this is where naturalization and intensive fil am search come in. i believe this is rthe only way we can boost our chances.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by erektus View Post
    Size is only a natural advantage and, like all advantages, it can be negated... by speed, quickness, shooting, a good system, team defense and preparation. Some may argue that there is also a unique pinoy "x" factor -- creativity.

    If you've seen how Smart Gilas competed at the Asia Champions Cup, you would know what I mean...

    The Gilas boys had all of the 5 factors above working for them; thus, they were able to go head-to-head against a much bigger Mahram Iran club team (which, according to Toroman himself is stronger than Iran's NT) bannered by 7'3 Lauderdale, 6'10 Vroman and the core of Iran's NT...

    Chot's 2007 team had at least the first three factors on tap (speed, quickness and shooting), and a little of the last three.

    Yeng's 2009 team, in my view, only has speed working for them. (Note that there's a difference between speed and quickness. Speed works in the open court, which is useless if you can't get rebounds or make the quick outlet pass).

    For a team that has no real system in place and relies on freelancing most of the time, your best weapon would be a really good and vocal court leader -- a PG like Jimmy Alapag -- who can consistently beat his man off the dribble, throw the defense in disarray, and dish out to an open teammate. Plus a creative, unconventional scorer (Mark Caguioa or Mac Cardona) who can force defensive adjustments and pose as an enigma to opposing coaches (when Lebanese coach Dragan Raca said, "I see something in Philippine players, but I'll keep that to myself and for my players," I thought he was actually referring to the pinoys' enigmatic creativity on the court).

    Bottomline, if your opponent is two times bigger than you, then you at least have to work three times harder on all other things to beat him.

    this would have been more believable if smart gilas beat mahram iran and qatar. the facts are just glaring that the lack of heigh is taking its toll on philippine basketball.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by alien space bats View Post
    Yes this is true. The lack of height of the filipinos is the main reason why we are not competitive in the asian level.
    but how come the philippines was competitive before the mid-'70s, not just in asia but the rest of the world? caloy loyzaga was 6'3 and would regularly hold his own against bigger players. the late ed ocampo was only 5'9, and he could shut down any foreign team's top scorer. the average pinoy NT player in the '50s and '60s was about 5'10 or 5'11...

    we simply need more exposure to the international, and not just the american style of play.

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    Senior Member DaveMap2007's Avatar
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    will it change the result if we had EJ Feihl and Raul Dillo in the national team...its still goes down with skills

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    Right now in the world basketball scene yes because let's admit it basketball was invented based on american's height. A good, big, quick, and tall player will always beat a good, big, quick but short player in basketball. That's a sad reality. (But here's a catch, i've just noticed our players become taller and taller each decade, someday we might just have a good mobile big man who can compete against the best of the world. All we just have to do is to improve our training program for international competition)

    But if we're talking of asia only, definitely no. We can easily beat Korea and Japan if we play the right game for us. Even for the Middle Eastern countries we can beat them. We can be on top of asia together with China if we really devote our best team for international play. Smart Gilas would be a good start only that they haven't able to acquire some of our players with good potential like Japeth.
    Impossible is Nothing!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEndshiftresign View Post
    but how come the philippines was competitive before the mid-'70s, not just in asia but the rest of the world? caloy loyzaga was 6'3 and would regularly hold his own against bigger players. the late ed ocampo was only 5'9, and he could shut down any foreign team's top scorer. the average pinoy NT player in the '50s and '60s was about 5'10 or 5'11...

    we simply need more exposure to the international, and not just the american style of play.
    You must remember that in the past tall guy doesn't play basketball very well.
    Then they improve so that good tall player begin to emerge. Beginning with chamberlain, jabbar, walton and many other. Now we have nowitsky, yao ming,
    the boston guy, san antonio guy and others.

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    rey bancod said it, what we have are slashers, acrobats, and dunkers. we were influenced by the american philosophy of "the closer, the better". hence, filipinos loves scoring off the dribble and taking it strong in the hoop. coaches preach to take it strong to the hoop because it is the higher percentage shot - the closer the better. the problem is that when we go against other nations, we are usually dwarfed and that philosophy is futile. the americans, where we bororowed it, have the height to justify their adherence to it but we do not have it. so its the system, not the height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by batgirl View Post
    You must remember that in the past tall guy doesn't play basketball very well.
    Then they improve so that good tall player begin to emerge. Beginning with chamberlain, jabbar, walton and many other. Now we have nowitsky, yao ming,
    the boston guy, san antonio guy and others.
    um...not really. the philippine teams of the past used to play exhibition matches with top US NCAA teams...and give them a good fight, despite losing a lot of those games. and we're talking about american teams whose guards averaged 6'1-6'2 and who had centers 6'6 and above...averaging double figures! still, that's about half a foot taller than the average pinoy playing in those days.

    i wasn't alive yet in those days, but years of on-and-off research shows that philippine basketball was a very different ballgame back then.

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    Senior Member donmar's Avatar
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    Height? I don't think so... me and friends (all Filipinos) wasted a combination of Kiwi-Chinese team the other day... they're all taller than us.. the shortest player in their team is probably 5-8/5-9... while I'm the tallest in my team and I'm only 5-6... we all played one position (PG of course).. we beat them by speed and accurate shooting plus years of playing together (experience)...

    Just my two cents or more...


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